[Solved] Earthing and lightning protection - is it possible to connect?

Good morning,

I have this problem / question:
He is renovating the house and I would like to ask about the lightning protection and earthing systems.

In the photo below, I hope I have illustrated everything.

An electrician made two groundings by hammering pins and connected them with a hoop. From one pin (cross joint - I think it is called) he led out the hoop to ground the cable joint (apparently it is necessary - energy requirements) - in this ZK box the PEN is divided and a new power cable for mixing (five-core) is introduced
From the other pin from the cross connector, he introduced a hoop tie into the basement and connected it to such a rail (GSW / GSU?)

Then the electrician wanted to connect these two more pins to the lightning protection system.
I have a doubt here whether this is correct - will the electrician make a mistake connecting the building ground to the lightning ground?

My understanding is that in the event of a storm (lightning strike) - through the lightning protection system, a dangerous load may be transferred to a part of the home installation.

On the other hand, I think that the connection of the earth electrode with the grenadier may not be a mistake, because it is the same potential and I think that's what it is all about.

I am asking for your opinion and possible explanation before something is wrongly done.

oleg38 wrote:

An electrician made two groundings by hammering pins and connected them with a hoop. From one pin (cross joint - I think it is called) he led out the hoop to ground the cable joint (apparently it is necessary - energy requirements) - in this ZK box the PEN is divided and a new power cable for mixing (five-core) is introduced

Introduce these requirements. And I don't like the drawing

Tauron wrote in the letter that the EARTH connector and in it divide the PEN conductor into N and PE.

I am not an expert on the subject, so I scribbled the drawing as best I could to illustrate the situation.

In fact, it is done very nicely and professionally.
The question is whether this earth electrode can be connected with a lightning conductor or not.

oleg38 wrote:

Tauron wrote in the letter that the EARTH connector and in it divide the PEN conductor into N and PE.

You have shortened or mixed up something, buddy. Upload an excerpt from this letter from Tauron.

This is a clipping of the letter (my wife sent it) - I only deleted the identification details.
With the PEN division, they have already informed them by phone from Tauron.

Hello colleague Oleg

oleg38 wrote:

In fact, it is done very nicely and professionally.
The question is whether this earth electrode can be connected with a lightning conductor or not.

It's nice that my robot colleague likes it. And whether it is done professionally, it can be judged by a professional (being there) rather than a layman. As they say - the devil is in the details. For example, a colleague on the drawing of a pin described him as "Galmary". This is how it was assumed in the hype to call copper-plated pins. This requires the use of appropriate connecting elements (e.g. copper or copper hoop) to minimize electrochemical corrosion.

As for the question about the merger - it was written about it many times in the forum. We use equipotential connections to minimize the overvoltage occurring during the discharge. In details, specialists also have many secrets here - me. minimizing energy storage in a magnetic field. avoiding loops in which voltage could be induced. In the case of a colleague, it would be advisable for the connection to be made below ground level.

kisses
- GIFT-

I am reading, I am reading this WTP fragment and somehow I cannot read about the PEN breakdown.
Maybe it will be in another part?

Quote:

This is a clipping of the letter (my wife sent it) - I only deleted the identification details.
With the breakdown of the PEN it is already by phone of Tauron reported.

Rafikusa wrote:

This is a clipping of the letter (my wife sent it) - I only deleted the identification details.
With the PEN division, they have already informed them by phone from Tauron.

So it is not in the conditions, and thus there is no technical justification for the separation of the PEN conduit in the FPC.

As the previous speaker wrote, there is no such condition - I was informed about it by phone.

I am not an expert on what I mentioned, but I also read here on the forum that it does not matter whether the pen division will be in the ZK or in the home switchboard. Therefore, I do not really understand why you are asking this.

Anyway, the split point would have to be grounded what was done in the joint and Tauron would pick it up (at least that's what they said).

My colleague Darom explained to me - this is how I understood that I could connect my vertical earthing with a wire rope from a lightning conductor - it was important that it was underground - and I thought so too - to put a hoop in the trench in the trench and connect it with the lightning conductor - I only had doubts is it possible to connect to the lightning protection system or are they to be two independent earthing systems.

I also read on the forum that you cannot connect to the lightning rod if the grounding is to be functional, e.g. in teletechnics etc. then they are to be independent.

Ps. I have not yet written with this connector that it is also about moving the meter from the apartment to the outside of the building. Maybe this information will help you identify "something".

Does anyone have any opinion about connecting the earthing to the hoop from the lightning protection system. I prefer to be more confident than the experts in these matters.

To combine or not to combine?

Ps. I still have info from an electrician that the grounding he made is 10 ohms and the cord from the lightning conductor has 5 ohms (that's an abstraction for me)

oleg38 wrote:

As the previous speaker wrote, there is no such condition - I was informed about it by phone.

I am not an expert on what I mentioned, but I also read here on the forum that it does not matter whether the pen division will be in the ZK or in the home switchboard. Therefore, I do not really understand why you are asking this.

Anyway, the split point would have to be grounded what was done in the joint and Tauron would pick it up (at least that's what they said).

My colleague Darom explained to me - this is how I understood that I could connect my vertical earthing with a wire rope from a lightning conductor - it was important that it was underground - and I thought so too - to put a hoop in the trench in the trench and connect it with the lightning conductor - I only had doubts is it possible to connect to the lightning protection system or are they to be two independent earthing systems.

I also read on the forum that you cannot connect to the lightning rod if the grounding is to be functional, e.g. in teletechnics etc. then they are to be independent.

Ps. I have not yet written with this connector that it is also about moving the meter from the apartment to the outside of the building. Maybe this information will help you identify "something".

Does anyone have any opinion about connecting the earthing to the hoop from the lightning protection system. I prefer to be more confident than the experts in these matters.

To combine or not to combine?

Ps. I still have info from an electrician that the grounding he made is 10 ohms and the cord from the lightning conductor has 5 ohms (that's an abstraction for me)

Without going into details, as my colleague Darom wrote - in the presented situation, the earth electrodes cannot be connected, but should be done. This is equipotentialization.

Of course, you should also absolutely remember to use appropriate surge arresters in the facility.

I have the following arresters in the switchboard: Surge arrester B + C 4P 12.5kA SPBT12-280 / 4 158331 by EATON

Reasonably good?

oleg38 wrote:

To combine or not to combine?

Ps. I still have info from an electrician that the grounding he made is 10 ohms and the cord from the lightning conductor has 5 ohms (that's an abstraction for me)

There was a million and one time about it. The lightning rod with the earth electrode should be connected in the ground. I would never dare to connect these two above-ground installations. By connecting these installations in the ground, you can be sure that when the lightning strikes the lightning protection system, the load will not get into the building's installation, but will be dispersed, while both installations will remain at the ground potential.


Link
Yes, it should not be combined.


Link
It is correct, both installations are connected in the ground.


As for the values given by the electrician, it is not surprising. Probably the hoop has a much larger surface in the ground and hence the lower resistance of this installation.

Greetings!

Hi,
I understand from your statements that the earth electrode in the electrical installation should be connected with the hoop of the lightning earth electrode in order to equalize the potentials. Second thing - it should be done in the ground. Approx.

I would like to know if the solution used for me is correct:
1. The lightning rod earth loop was dug in "in reserve" - we are not making the lightning yet, but for the future, it's nice to have this hoop already in the ground and not have to dig.
2. in the four corners of the building, 4 pieces of hoop iron are exposed, welded to the loop underground.
The fifth section is welded to the front of the building - in the place where the switchgear is located behind the wall in the technical room and directly through the wall this section of the hoop iron is introduced into the room

Now yes:
I do not have a separate earth electrode for now - there is a pin stuck in the Tauron box, and the WLZ has 5 wires, of which PE is connected to the same pin in the box (it is probably connected to N there too? I'm not sure now). Electricians say that is enough.

Can I install an equalizing bar on this hoop from the loop around the house (potentially to be used for lightning in the future) that comes out at the house at the switchgear and connect it to the earth electrode I have in the switchgear? (Which in turn is connected by the WLZ to the pin in the Tauron box)

darmach wrote:

I would like to know if the solution used for me is correct:

The most correct solution is to make a foundation earth electrode. I don't understand why you didn't. And some more information can be found here:
Types of earth electrodes. Ring earth electrode, vertical earth electrodes
How to check if the lightning protection system is necessary?

^ToM^ wrote:

when the lightning strikes the lightning protection system, the load will not penetrate into the building's installation, but will be dispersed, while both installations will remain at the ground potential.

There is no such thing as "earth potential" at the time of discharge. In any case, there is no constant potential in the discharge area. There will be a potential gradient and depending on the geometry of the connections between the lightning protection system and the PE earthing, a voltage difference may and does appear. Also, some potential may be dragged into the building's installation from the earthing side and therefore direct and indirect equipotential bonding (GSW + surge arresters) is important.

Jarek Kordalewski wrote:

Also, some potential may be dragged into the building's installation from the earthing side [/ b] and therefore direct and indirect equipotential bonding (GSW + surge arresters) is important.

The earth potential is always dragged into the installation from the earth side. There's no other way. Whether there is a thunderstorm, whether there is no thunderstorm, whether it is raining or not. This is obvious. Although I do not know how elaborate you would make grounding or lightning installations, the earth potential will always be dragged into the building's wiring. Because that's the sense of it.

Yes of course. Only this potential may be greater or less. What I meant in my speech was that you cannot count on the following:

^ToM^ wrote:

when the lightning strikes the lightning protection system, the load will not penetrate into the building's installation, but will be dispersed, while both installations will remain at the ground potential.

It is therefore necessary to remember about the potential gradient and connect the internal equipotential bonding to the ground in such a way that this dragged potential is as low as possible.

And most of all, the installations will not remain at the "earth potential" but will be energized (and at a high level) relative to the distant areas of the "reference earth".

This is why it is more important to have solid equipotential bonding within the facility (direct and indirect) than to minimize the ground impedance.

Jarek Kordalewski wrote:

This is why it is more important to have solid equipotential bonding within the facility (direct and indirect) than to minimize the ground impedance.

This is what you need to remember, because some people fight for every ohm of ground impedance, forgetting the most important.

Kisses
- GIFT-

If someone burns a refrigerator or TV, they will find out that the connection to the lightning rod and the same hoop is dangerous. During landing, the voltage on the rim is a few thousand volts, the rope will warm up, the resistance will increase, but the voltage will continue to be more than 5 thousand volts, reaching the surge voltage that will break when the flower breaks temporarily the overcurrent protection where the distance of 2 cm for 5000V is only the passing of the precipitated resistance will be at least 1000v and the engine will burn. TV did not stay-ya slept etc.
For a Dechn surge arrester with a spark gap it will protect by lowering the voltage to zero voltage. There will be no potential difference, damaging the main fuse, the current will not flow.
It is important not to connect the earthing with the enormity of the hoop. In the ground, the resistance is greater than metal to metal. .. if you can connect the cooperage in the ground, why not connect the photovoltaics on the roof with one wire minus the same lightning and the same grounding. By the way .... I'm curious if anyone knows what is the difference in the division of PE N and PEN. Installation of the TNC AND TNC-S

Added after 22 [minutes]:

If someone burns a refrigerator or TV, they will find out that the connection to the lightning conductor and the same earthing hoop is dangerous. During landing, the voltage on the rim is a few tens of thousands of volts, the hoop will heat up, the resistance will increase, but the lowered voltage will continue to be over 5,000 volts, reaching the surge voltage that will probably break when the flower temporarily breaks the overcurrent protection where the distance of 2 cm for 5000V is just a transition, through the next resistance it will be even 1000v and the engine will burn. TV will not withstand sleep, etc.
For a Dechn surge arrester with a spark gap it will protect by lowering the voltage to zero voltage. There will be no potential difference, damaging the main fuse, the current will not flow.
It is important not to connect the earthing with the enormity of the hoop. In the ground, the resistance is greater than metal to metal. .. if you can combine the cooperage in winter ....... why not on the roof ...



why not connect the photovoltaics on the roof with one wire minus the same lightning protection and the same grounding. By the way .... I'm curious if anyone knows what is the difference in the division of PE N and PEN. Installation of TNC and TNC-S

KrzysztofJozeph wrote:

It is important not to connect the earthing with the enormity of the hoop. In the ground, the resistance is greater than metal to metal. .. if you can connect the cooperage in the ground, why not connect the photovoltaics on the roof with one wire minus the same lightning and the same grounding. By the way .... I'm curious if anyone knows what is the difference in the division of pe + n. And Pen. Installation of the TNC AND TNC-S

Someone tells you or did you come up with this crap yourself? You have a talent for fairy tales! You're better than the Grimm brothers.

KrzysztofJozeph wrote:

If someone burns a refrigerator or Tw, they will find out that the connection to the lightning rod and the same hoop is dangerous.

Before a colleague advises on lightning protection - I suggest you get acquainted with electrical engineering or the physics of electromagnetism.

Kisses
- GIFT-

Darom wrote:

KrzysztofJozeph wrote:

If someone burns a refrigerator or Tw, they will find out that the connection to the lightning rod and the same hoop is dangerous.

Before a colleague advises on lightning protection - I suggest you get acquainted with electrical engineering or the physics of electromagnetism.

Kisses
- GIFT-

Rather with the basics of physics.

KrzysztofJozeph wrote:

By the way .... I'm curious if anyone knows what is the difference in the division of PE + N and PEN. Installation of TNC and TNC-S

By the way ... and what do YOU have sensible say on this topic?