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Calculating Active, Reactive & Apparent Power from Voltage & Current on Transformer (1ms Sampling)

sambo123 91032 14
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  • #1 2573086
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    Hello

    I am an electronics novice with a question. It measures the voltage and current on the transformer with 1ms sampling. Can the powers given in the topic be calculated from these measurements? I do not know how to determine the fi angle, as long as it can be determined from these measurements.
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  • #2 2573198
    Piotrek.pxf
    Level 27  
    I don't quite know how to interpret it. Is it that you connect the transformer to some source and measure the voltage and current on the primary winding when idling? The circuit will be inductive. The power dissipated in such a system will be very small.

    You measure voltage and current with some device that samples these values every 1ms. You can measure the offset angle between voltage and current (at least approximately) with this.
    You will calculate the apparent power (S) on the basis of the rms values of voltage and current.
    S = U * J

    You will calculate the reactive power (in this system it will have a positive value) from the product of RMS voltage and current and the sine of the phase shift angle.
    Q = U * J * sin (? ;)

    And the active power is the same as the reactive power, only the cosine of the angle.
    P = U * J * cos (? ;)

    I don't really understand why such a calculation is. Is it some assignment for school?
  • #3 2573227
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    That's exactly the job. Only that I do not have a device for measuring this fi angle. I only have to measure voltage and current with 1ms sampling. Is it possible to determine the angle fi on this basis?
  • #4 2573275
    Piotrek.pxf
    Level 27  
    Well, the shift can be determined with this device with a certain accuracy.
    By measuring voltage and current at intervals of one millisecond and marking the values on the graph, current and voltage waveforms will be generated. Now, from the graph, we can read how many degrees the voltage is ahead of the current (it is an inductive system, so the voltage is ahead of the current). In the ideal coil, the voltage is ahead of the current by an angle of 90 °.
  • #5 2573802
    szczepanr
    Level 16  
    Hello and welcome,

    assuming the meter measures the instantaneous value of current and voltage, we have
    u = Umsin (?t + ?u) ii = Imsin (?t + ?i), because ? = ?u-?i is the phase shift angle between voltage and current, hence for a moment (sample) e.g. t1 = 3ms you are able to determine the value of this angle.
    The instantaneous power can be determined by:
    p = u * i = Um * sin?t * Im * sin (?t-? ;) = (Um * Im) / 2 [cos?-cos (2?-? ;) ] =
    = U * I [cos?-cos (2?-? ;) ] = U * Icos?-U * Icos (2?t-? ;) .

    U * Icos?- is a constant component
    U * Icos (2?t-? ;) - sinusoidal variable component

    Regards
    Stephen
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  • Helpful post
    #6 2573826
    gReaT
    Level 17  
    As for the coil, I can write so much :)
    The voltage on the coil is 90 degrees ahead of the current, so yes.
    1. Phase shift angle ?
    ? = ?u - ?i = 90 ° - 0 ° = 90 °

    2.Active power
    P = U * I * cos? = U * I * 90 ° = U * I * 0 = 0
    cos?- power factor
    cos90 ° = 0
    The coil does not consume any active power, i.e. it does not convert electrical energy into any other type of energy.

    3. Reactive power
    Q = U * I * son? = U * I * 90 ° = U * I * 1 = U * I
    The coil takes reactive power, i.e. it stores electric energy in a magnetic field

    4. Apparent power
    S = U * I = Q the apparent power is equal to the reactive power
  • Helpful post
    #7 2573852
    Piotrek.pxf
    Level 27  
    Except in this case it is not a 90 ° phase shift.

    The shift angle can be calculated as my colleague Szczepan wrote in the first formula. The instantaneous power p is not needed for this task. Continue counting as I wrote.
  • #8 2579739
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    So it goes something like this:

    ?u = arcsin (u / | u | ?2) - ?t
    ?i = arcsin (i / | i | ?2) -?t

    Then I know how to count these powers. I have one more question what is THD and how can it be calculated?
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  • #10 2580681
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    Someone could look at these patterns above, because I am counting and counting and something does not work out. I understand that the uii values are given to me by this device? a | u | i | i | are absolute values?
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  • #11 2580753
    Rae
    Level 16  
    These patterns you wrote are wrong. By measuring only the current and voltage, you cannot determine ?, you would have to measure the active power with a wattmeter or register the shift between current and voltage on the oscilloscope, otherwise you cannot do it from your measurements. [/url]
  • #12 2580796
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    So these formulas written by Szczepanr are not good?
  • #13 2580831
    Rae
    Level 16  
    The formulas are OK, but I'm not sure if you can read the sample value for a specific time.
  • #14 2580934
    Piotrek.pxf
    Level 27  
    Rae wrote:
    These patterns you wrote are wrong. By measuring only the current and voltage, you cannot determine ?, you would have to measure the active power with a wattmeter or register the shift between current and voltage on the oscilloscope, otherwise you cannot do it from your measurements.

    Well, the author wrote that he measures the value of current and voltage in some time intervals (probably with an oscilloscope), so you can read the phase shift from it.
  • #15 2675809
    sambo123
    Level 14  
    I have one more question. What is the matter when the voltage is not purely sinusoidal, i.e. harmonics appear
    Calculating Active, Reactive & Apparent Power from Voltage & Current on Transformer (1ms Sampling)

    The above-mentioned patterns are probably not good then?

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around calculating active, reactive, and apparent power from voltage and current measurements on a transformer with 1ms sampling. The initial query seeks to determine if the phase angle (fi) can be derived from these measurements. Responses indicate that while the phase shift can be approximated by graphing the voltage and current waveforms, precise calculation of the angle requires additional measurements, such as using a wattmeter or an oscilloscope. The formulas for apparent power (S = U * I), reactive power (Q = U * I * sin(fi)), and active power (P = U * I * cos(fi)) are discussed, with emphasis on the fact that in an ideal inductive coil, the active power is zero, while reactive power equals apparent power. The conversation also touches on the implications of non-sinusoidal voltage waveforms and the presence of harmonics, which complicate the calculations.
Summary generated by the language model.
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