logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda

Understanding hFE Option in Multimeters: Transistor Efficiency, N-Channel/P-Channel Detection

Konan Marian 98409 21
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 1621083
    Konan Marian
    Level 14  
    I mean what the meter (numbers) shows. I know that the hFE checks the efficiency of the transistors and shows whether they are n-channel or p-channel.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #2 1621116
    marcinj12
    Level 40  
    It indicates the hFE parameter of the transistor - in other words its ? or DC gain. In every PDF with the description of the transistor you will find that this parameter is very scattered for the same model, e.g. for BC548 from 110 to 800.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #3 1621119
    Paweł Es.
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    It is not the efficiency but the DC gain in the EC circuit of the transistor, also marked with the symbol ?.

    Ic?? * Ib - in the area of the active work of the transistor

    Ib - the base current of the transistor
    Ic - collector current
    ? = hFE - DC gain in a common emitter system.

    In the manual of the meter, it is usually stated at which base current this coefficient is measured.

    The result is of course approximate and applies to the given measurement conditions.

    Usually ? is a function of Ib and Uce at the work point (this is what it is given in the catalogs)

    Ib = f (Ube) = Is * (exp (Ube / Ut) -1)

    Ube base-emitter voltage
    Ut - thermal voltage = 26 mV for 27 degrees Celsius
    Is - junction saturation current (reverse)

    Depending on how you connect the transistor to the meter connector, you can test BIPOLAR npn and pnp transistors.

    The meters do not measure field effect transistors!
  • #4 1621127
    BolzZ
    Level 26  
    Konan Marian wrote:
    I know the hFE [...] shows whether they are n-channel or p-channel.

    hfe is probably a parameter of a bipolar transistor, not a field ...
  • #5 1622621
    Konan Marian
    Level 14  
    Quote:
    In every PDF with the description of the transistor you will find that this parameter is very scattered for the same model, e.g. for BC548 from 110 to 800.


    With such extravagance, such measurement seems to be a redundant thing that gives nothing. My range is 0 .. .999 - that is 70% of the scale for BC548 !!.

    If two different transistors have the same hFE, can they be considered substitutes ???
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #6 1622753
    Paweł Es.
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    It depends on the specific application, usually some further consideration is needed:


    - max current
    - the maximum power that the transistor can dissipate on itself
    - maximum collector-emitter voltage

    and:

    - limit frequency in a given system of work
    - transistor noise
    - switching times
    - capacity
    - hybrid parameters h

    beta itself is needed when calculating the elements needed to obtain a specific operating point of the transistor.
  • #7 1845069
    Konan Marian
    Level 14  
    and whether the hFE can be used to check if the transistor is working. ie. When numbers pop up, does it mean that it is operational?

    Of course, I know Darlington will not show the number on the short circuit, it will be known to be broken
  • Helpful post
    #8 1845116
    BolzZ
    Level 26  
    if it shows "numbers" and the indication is within the limits given in the catalog (?), it is functional ;)
  • #9 3475753
    kacperski92
    Level 11  
    And if the max current is the same and all other parameters except hFE, e.g. BC109 has hFE 180 and BC109C has 420 but all other parameters are the same, then you can use BC109C as a replacement :?:
  • #10 3475911
    elek555
    Level 37  
    It depends whether you want "all other parameters" or the gain to match.
  • #11 3476492
    kamyczek
    Level 38  
    Usually, the gain parameter plays a role in the design of amplifiers because these circuits have a feedback limiting the gain anyway, the higher beta value does not affect the operation of the circuit, as long as this value is not lower than assumed in the circuit. Another disadvantage is that the meter measures at a specific value of the base current and in real systems this value may significantly differ from the value used in the meters. E.g. power transistors ...
  • #12 3477970
    elek555
    Level 37  
    ... is measured with a much higher collector current and all measurements with a tiny base current can be omitted / are performed on the lower knee of the ch-ki /. Thus, such a measurement gives only little knowledge of low-power transistors.
  • #14 13885449
    titolr10
    Level 12  
    Let me rehearse the topic a bit. I have a cheap meter (about PLN 15-20 for alledrogo) and a hFE measurement function. It looks virtually the same as here:
    Understanding hFE Option in Multimeters: Transistor Efficiency, N-Channel/P-Channel Detection

    And now when inserting as described, i.e. collector - C, base - B, emitter - E, 1 pops out, i.e. out of range. If I put in the opposite way, i.e. emitter - C, base - B, collector - E, it pops out 135. If I look at DS correctly, the hFE in this transistor (bc548b) is 125-900.

    The question is: Does this mean that someone has mistaken the letters on the casing? It is impossible to solder this system so that the letters match. Is the second option, the trail meter hit?
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #15 13885554
    Urgon
    Level 38  
    AVE ...

    Don't take the hFE meter as an oracle about the amplification of the transistor. Its accuracy is influenced by the accuracy and calibration of the milliammeter, and the accuracy and calibration of the current source that controls the transistor. In the vast majority of cases you will be dealing with circuits where the transistor gain value will not matter much. In addition, with such a tester you can check small transistors, but not power transistors ...
  • #16 13886577
    titolr10
    Level 12  
    Sure, I don't need it at this point, I am more asking out of curiosity :) I checked the contact plate and it does not seem that something has been burnt, so someone has hit the stickers, because this circle is not soldered so that everything is consistent :)
  • #17 14584872
    grejon
    Level 11  
    @ titolr10: from what I remember in these transistors the emitter and collector electrodes are swapped. The meter shows well. Sorry, I'm just answering now, but now I've found this topic.
  • #18 14587202
    Sobota
    Level 26  
    Gentlemen, what is the difference between hfe and hFE :?:
  • #20 16138664
    szyszko
    Level 11  
    Hello,

    IN PRACTICE I mainly use the beta-meter to pair the so-called complementary pairs of PNP and NPN for low frequency amplifiers (audio power amplifiers). Also, most often, when connecting, for example, 2-3 pieces of transistors in stabilized power supplies (increasing the output current of the stabilizer), because it significantly reduces the amount of heat power lost and causes that all heat up in the same way, because the theoretically calculated value of "equalizing" resistors it is the same for all transistors in the circuit.
    Unfortunately, even with the same series / batch of the same transistors, the discrepancy of their parameters can be quite large, so if you have such a possibility, you can sort, for example, from a 100 pack 10 of those that most correspond to the values given in the manufacturer's catalog.
    As professional digital beta meters are quite expensive, I personally prefer old vg. analog (pointer) meters, which are only used to measure transistors, because it is then possible to set the most appropriate measuring range, and moreover, they can be used to measure not only hFE.

    greetings
  • #21 16139164
    _jta_
    Electronics specialist
    The range from 110 to 800 is for the BC548; transistors are divided into groups according to the gain factor, A - the lowest (e.g. 90-200), B - medium (e.g. 180-400), C - the highest (e.g. 350-800). Circuits are usually designed so that a transistor of the same group can be used without significantly altering the operation of the circuit; using a transistor from a different group may cause problems.

    And you can check the meter more precisely than you know from the group's labeling - if only to choose two transistors with similar gain for a circuit. Just don't know for what current the meter checks the gain, and the gain usually depends on the current.

    And hfe and hFE are not the same - it would be the same if the gain did not depend on the current. hFE is the quotient of the collector current and the base, and hfe is the derivative (in terms of differentiation) of the collector current after the base current. I wonder what the meter really shows ...
    Moderated By trymer01:

    Regulations, point 3.1.19 Do not send messages on archival topics if it is another question, in particular other than the questioning person. Out of respect for the questioner, create your own topic. You can only add a solution to the problem.

  • #22 16900247
    karlos79
    Level 33  
    szyszko wrote:
    Hello,

    IN PRACTICE I mainly use the beta-meter to pair the so-called complementary pairs of PNP and NPN with low frequency amplifiers (audio power amplifiers). Also, most often, when connecting, for example, 2-3 pieces of transistors in stabilized power supplies (increasing the output current of the stabilizer), because it significantly reduces the amount of heat power lost and causes that all heat up in the same way, because the theoretically calculated value of "equalizing" resistors it is the same for all transistors in the circuit.
    Unfortunately, even with the same series / batch of the same transistors, the discrepancy of their parameters can be quite large, so if you have such a possibility, you can sort, for example, from a 100 pack 10 of those that most correspond to the values given in the manufacturer's catalog.
    As professional digital beta meters are quite expensive, I personally prefer the old vg. analog (pointer) meters, which are only used to measure transistors, because it is then possible to set the most appropriate measuring range, and moreover, they can be used to measure not only hFE.

    greetings


    My friend,
    how about if the transistors go from the tape during automatic assembly, you measure all of them too?
    Moderated By Madrik:


    3.1.19. Do not send messages on archival topics if this is another question, in particular other than the questioning person. Out of respect for the questioner, create your own topic. You can only add a solution to the problem.

Topic summary

The discussion centers around the hFE parameter in multimeters, which indicates the DC gain of bipolar transistors, specifically NPN and PNP types. Users clarify that hFE is not a measure of efficiency but rather a function of the collector and base currents in the active region of the transistor. The variability of hFE values for the same transistor model, such as the BC548, is noted, with ranges often provided in datasheets. The conversation also touches on the implications of hFE measurements for substituting transistors, emphasizing that while similar hFE values may allow for substitution, other parameters like maximum current and power dissipation must also be considered. Additionally, the accuracy of hFE readings is influenced by the measurement conditions, and the limitations of multimeters in testing power transistors are discussed. The distinction between hfe and hFE is clarified, with hfe being the derivative of collector current with respect to base current. Users also share experiences with different multimeter models and the importance of proper transistor orientation during testing.
Summary generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT