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Ground loop - what is it and what effects can it have on the operation of system

stabilizator 15495 6
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • Ground loop - what is it and what effects can it have on the operation of systems?

    In the previous episode, you will find information about galvanic separation .

    Before about the ground loop, it would first be worth explaining what ground is. In electronic systems, it is a node (that is, where different branches of the circuit connect) that is said to have zero potential. In general, the mass is a very wide path or even a plane of copper on the plate so that the currents between the branches can flow freely. At the same time, the track width is large or large conductor cross-section it helps to reduce the resistance, which is also advisable. Flowing currents cause formation voltage drops so our theoretically "zero" potential of the ground line may not be zero in some places ...

    A ground loop is created when circuits connect to each other by more than one ground path. And I do not necessarily mean PCB tracks - we can as well talk about combining the masses of two separate devices, e.g. a CD player and an audio amplifier. In this case, the ground loop is formed by the connections between them: one connection is the protective conductor of the network installation, and the other is the shield of the signal cable.


    Ground loop - what is it and what effects can it have on the operation of system

    Why is the ground loop so bad? Theoretically, it is very good because two connections will always have a lower resultant resistance than either of them, which is what we want. However, the reality is less perfect and there is a precise cause here.
    Such a ground loop has its surface: if they are two tracks located in different places on the board, we are talking about the area of the figure that they delimit. If they are wired connections, we mean the area of the entire area between them. In the case of stage equipment, they can be even hundreds of square meters.
    According to Faraday's law of induction, an alternating magnetic field (you should bear in mind, first of all, the 50 Hz electromagnetic field that all power cables emit) induces voltage in such a loop. So if we "add" a component with a frequency of 50 Hz to the signal path, it is not difficult to predict what the effect will be. Humming, humming, buzzing - listening effects vary. Nevertheless, we treat ourselves in this way with an elegant source of interference to the useful signal.
    The second issue is the voltage drops on the conductors and potential differences depending on the power consumption of the devices, these unwanted signals via ground loops may overlap the useful signal.

    Interestingly, not only audio equipment is susceptible to the influence of the ground loop, although its effects are most visible (or rather audible) in audio equipment. With sufficiently long connections, interference may appear even in the digital transmission, e.g. between the sensor and the computer.

    The solution is simple (in theory): you have to cut a closed path for the current. If we sayon wire connections, it usually boils down to disconnecting the ground connection in the signal cable so that the devices are only short-circuited by the protective conductor. In some audio equipment you will find a "ground / lift" switch, which breaks the ground loop. It can be worse on the PCB as it may require a complete redesign of the track layout. However, the ground loop does not make itself felt in every situation and you need to be aware of it.

    What can we do?

    Use appropriate wire sizes and paths, minimizing voltage drops.
    Run loops as tightly as possible, we will limit the field covered by signal paths and wires as well as conducting operating currents.
    Loop avoidance through star topology.
    The use of digital transmissions that are more resistant to interference.
    The use of a medium providing galvanic separation, e.g. optical fiber, toslink, signal transformers, wireless transmission.

    Have you had problems with the ground loop?

    "Author: Michał Kurzela / Futrzaczek"
    "Correction and photos: stabilizer"

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  • #2 20329096
    papageorgio
    Level 2  
    Hello, I don't know if it's related to the ground loop, but it happens to me that when I connect some device to the socket in the room while listening to music, even a vacuum cleaner that doesn't have a protection provision, the amplifier goes crazy and plays at full volume with terrible clipping, although the vol. value on the display does not change, after turning down everything returns to normal. The critical moment is connecting an additional device. The amplifier is a hegel h200.
    Please give me suggestions. Regards.
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  • #3 20329121
    lopr_pol
    Level 32  
    The control chip is freaking out from the power surge?
    How old is the boost? Maybe it's time to replace the electrolytes?
  • #4 20329141
    papageorgio
    Level 2  
    The amp is 10 years old, so not that old. I also noticed that sometimes in one channel there is a kind of noise, crackling and after a slight tap on the equipment, this noise stops, while with a stronger tap there is sometimes a loud boom.
    I guess it's time to put this device into service?

    Added after 1 [hours] 5 [minutes]:

    Topic to be closed, I think I found the culprit in the form of a speck of solder between the legs of one of the transistors. For now it's OK.
    Thank you and best regards.
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  • #5 20330122
    olaf x
    Level 34  
    I had to deal with the ground loop many times in the first constructions. Later I realized what it was. Since then, I either lead the masses into the star, or if the board does not allow it, I lead several paths so that they meet at one point and to it the power supply and the minus of the main electrolyte. Of course, we are talking about own projects, on factory or kits they are usually routed correctly, with an emphasis on "usually" :P
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  • #6 20330546
    _jta_
    Electronics specialist
    stabilizator wrote:
    If we are talking about wired connections, it usually boils down to disconnecting the ground connection in the signal cable so that the devices are short-circuited only through the protective conductor.

    This is just the wrong way. The problem caused by a ground loop containing a ground connection is the voltage drop across the signal ground connection, which often has a much higher resistance than the ground connection - it will not go away when this connection is broken... One way to connect several devices is to use a resistor between the ground and the ground - so that there is some resistance in the loop created by connecting the signal grounds and the ground connection, and in the right place. Then the voltage induced in the ground loop is deposited mainly on this resistor, and it is outside the signal path. Let's say, wire resistance 0.1?, 2 resistors 22?, ground loop influence decreases 440x.

    Another way is to isolate the signal mass and treat it as a signal.
  • #7 20330551
    CYRUS2
    Level 43  
    Urgon wrote:
    And the last point, Dave Jones from EEVBlog talked about it, and even showed the offers of foreign manufacturers of separating transformers, where the use of isolating measuring equipment to protect against ground loops was mentioned.

Topic summary

Ground loops occur when multiple ground paths connect circuits, leading to potential voltage drops and interference in electronic systems. This can manifest as erratic behavior in devices, such as amplifiers experiencing volume spikes when additional devices are connected. Solutions discussed include implementing star grounding techniques, using resistors to mitigate voltage drops, and isolating signal grounds. The importance of proper grounding in circuit design is emphasized, with references to isolating transformers for protection against ground loops.
Summary generated by the language model.
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