Appropriate Cable Selection for 6kW 400V Storage Furnaces & Heaters

Question

Hello :) I am asking for urgent help and advice from everyone who knows the subject :) I need to connect (I have sufficient power allocation): 1.5 storage furnaces, each 6kWh / 400V 2. 3 storage heaters, each 6kWh / 400V I would like to ask for advice, what cables and security should I use to...

msgow · Answer

Hello
If you have stoves with a power of 6kW 3-phase, each current will be about 9A per phase, so all you need is a YDYżo 5x1.5mm2 cable and a S303 B10 protection.There is a separate circuit from the switchgear to each stove and, of course, securing it with this protection.
For correct calculations, it is also necessary to know the lengths of individual circuits in order to check the protection and slopes.
Regards

abrzuzek · Answer

Hello

Contrary to appearances, the selection of cables is not easy. From what you wrote, it's a bit too little, but let's try to come up with something.

He understands that there will be two stove circuits, one 5 pcs and the other 3 pcs.
These furnaces will be powered by a network voltage of 3 x 400V ~ connected in a delta.

as it results from the calculations for each phase, the current of one furnace is about 9A.
For five furnaces, the current of one phase is 45A. in such a case, I would suggest a cable with a cross-section of 10mm2 (of course, it all depends on the method of installation and other factors such as e.g. length, etc.), of course, the protection is selected according to the cable used, in this case B50, and the type of cable is e.g. YDYżo 4x10 450/750 .

For the second circuit (three furnaces), the current is 27A / phase, for example, 4 mm2 wire has a B35 protection. YDYżo 4x4 450/750.
The above data should be taken as an example and, to be sure, it is better to consult an electrician who will check the existing conditions on the site.
Regards

Łukasz-O · Answer

My friend abdominals , each furnace must have its own circuit, not as you propose all furnaces on one or two. Second, why are you suggesting four-wire cables?

Grzegorz_n · Answer

welcome back :)

Thanks for the answers :)

msgow wrote:
Hello
If you have stoves with a power of 6kW 3-phase, each current will be about 9A per phase, so all you need is a YDYżo 5x1.5mm2 cable and a S303 B10 protection.There is a separate circuit from the switchgear to each stove and, of course, securing it with this protection.

And can I find out:
1. How many maximum loads and what protection for such a load can be given for the above-mentioned cable???
2. How much maximum load and what protection for such a load can be given for the YDYżo 5x2.5mm2 cable ???

Now I am satisfied with the parameters based on theoretical calculations, and in the evening I will write what are the cable lengths for individual furnaces.

Once again THANK YOU VERY MUCH :)

Regards

Gregory

kubai · Answer

For half-conductor according to table 16A, and for 2.5mm2 it will be 20A with a load of 3 phases in pipes and installation channels on the wall. For flush-mounted installation in pipes and installation ducts, respectively 13A poltorowka and 16A 2.5mm2. When installed on a 16A half-conductor wall, 2.5 mm2 25A cable. Only that I would treat these values as approximate, because I really do not know what it looks like on the site. As for the selection of cables and protection, I would personally choose the same as my colleague msgow: half-hole and B10 protection. Regards

abrzuzek · Answer

Hello As the above quote from my friend shows Luke-O I'm not proposing two circuits, only the author of this topic and I don't know why each furnace must have its own circuit? If certain conditions are met, you can do more. As for the cable, why use a five-wire cable for this system. As you can see in the diagram, the system is powered from three phases and of course the PE protective conductor must be yellow and green, but I did not draw it because it is A, B, C of an electrician and everyone who has a license of at least 1kV must know about it. Of course, I cannot imagine that the entire installation will be designed and made by a person without preparation and authorization based on a few statements from the Internet of people who think that they know about electricity I cheer you

Grzegorz_n · Answer

This is an installation placed under the KG slabs, so it can be considered as an installation on the wall ??? The length of the cable to the farthest furnace is about 20 meters, the remaining ones are 15, 10, 5 meters. As for the division into 2 circuits, I wrote this because I have 2 different rooms to heat and I thought to divide them according to the number of stoves installed, but if I have to make a separate circuit for each stove, it does not matter in this system. Now another question ... colleague abdominals he wrote that there is no need to use 5 wires, so does this mean that I can buy a 4x1.5 mm2 cable ??? And one more question ... I heard that for the lighting installation, according to some new regulations, give you an extra vein. Is it true and what's going on? Until now, you could have 2 wires for a single switch, and 3 wires for a double switch. Is it necessary to give +1 here and here now ??? Thanks in advance for all the advice and suggestions :) Gregory

michcio · Answer

For 15 years, i.e. since three-wire installations are made (in Poland, after the war), single lighting fixtures have always been connected to 3 wires, and for double fixtures (chandeliers etc.) 4 wires (PE, N, L, L). The big mistake is pulling 2 and 3 wires, respectively.
For circuit breakers unchanged - 2 or 3 wires. Only for the switch you cannot use yellow-green and blue wires, only black, brown, red, gray etc.

Łukasz-O · Answer

My friend abdominals It does not follow from the above quote that the author suggests two circuits. For a long time, in accordance with the art of installation, all permanently connected receivers (especially high-power ones) should be connected on separate circuits. The stoves were always connected separately, electrically, I don't think I need to explain it. In addition, any short circuit or fault in the circuit causes coldness throughout the house. Another thing, it is much easier to control the heating from one place, e.g. from a switching station, than with each of the furnaces separately. At the stove, you can at most set the temperature, but this solution will replace the smart home over time. As for the cable, L1, L2, L3 and PE are enough for the heaters themselves, but what if there is electronics with local control in the furnace? Not to mention the usual work indicator lamp. 5x 1.5mm2 from the calculations is enough, but we do not know the length of the individual circuits yet. I would suggest 5x2.5mm2 for each furnace. It will be a solution with a margin and much cheaper than dragging one 4x10mm2 circuit all over the object.

Akrzy74 · Answer

Grzegorz_n wrote A separate 5x2.5 cable and B16 protection for each furnace The cable itself - depending on how it will be laid, but certainly YDYp ... If they will be laid in pipes or cable ducts - then it can be YDY-round. 450V is enough.

abrzuzek · Answer

Hello
Before I wrote my own topic and wrote back on the first topic, I read a lot. I have always been hurt by such mutual attacks.
I will not pull on these personal threads because it makes no sense.
I believe that all my speakers are experts who know their stuff, but they look at this matter differently - and that's good because the author of the topic gave us too little information and we started to guess instead of asking him additional questions.
This is how I read his information, and since we know from the author of the topic that it may be different than it was described in the first post, I will ask my colleagues what the costs will look like? (because I think that the author of the topic is most interested in this) 8 x B16 and 8 x YDY 5x 2.5, maybe it's better to focus on it than jump down your throat?

I greet everyone and I suggest you relax

Akrzy74 · Answer

The author wrote- On my part, the answer was. abrzuzek wrote The costs are the costs, and common sense is yours. If your colleague is so economical, he will probably start to suggest making installations in the entire two-story house on two circuits / or maybe on one /. Because costs ... Such an investor is unfortunately the worst. Where you chop - there the chips fly ...

Łukasz-O · Answer

abdominals Nobody jumps at their throat. As for prices, B16 costs about PLN 9, the number of wire / circuit length / - no data. What are we talking about? Installation must be carried out in accordance with the standards, regulations and technical knowledge, and not cheaply and on one circuit. This forum is for the questioner to get to know the opinion of many people, and it is up to him to make decisions. PS. Remember that theory doesn't go along with practice.

abrzuzek · Answer

Hello
Dear Colleagues, I don't think we understand each other, I don't want to cut costs. Please read carefully all the statements without emotions and answer the author of the topic about the cheapest way to connect 8 stoves with a power of 6 kW each and why it must cost so much, taking into account your knowledge and experience. The unnecessary costs can then be verified.

Added after 21 [minutes]:

Hello
I don't know why you don't advise the author of the topic but focus on other matters.
The author of the topic still does not know what to install and for what.
(there was already about art and rights)

retrofood · Answer

the author is to commission an authorized person to design the electrical installation.
And all the posts are for oneself and for the muses. There is no information here for a correct answer to be given. if someone says otherwise, please provide voltage drops, please specify SWZ conditions ... etc. etc.

Akrzy74 · Answer

Grzegorz_n wrote- And Answers- Łukasz-O wrote- Akrzy74 wrote- retrofood wrote- I agree if the protections of the order C25, B50 are concerned ... Small cross-sections of wires, distances. The author clearly wrote- Ps- Grzegorz_n- You wrote that the stove has 6 KWh- This is how the storage capacity of the stove is given. Enter the exact type of furnace, or the power in KW / Kilowatts / First, you hire an electrician, and then you buy a cable / one that the electrician recommends /.

Grzegorz_n · Answer

Hello again and thank you so much to ALL who got involved in installing my stoves.

Akrzy74 wrote:
Ps- Grzegorz_n- You wrote that the stove has 6 KWh- This is how the storage capacity of the stove is given. Enter the exact type of furnace, or the power in KW / Kilowatts /
First, you hire an electrician, and then you buy a cable / one that the electrician recommends /.

Of course, I meant 6kW - the power of the device.

I want to connect these ovens myself because I have some practical knowledge and I think I should be able to handle it without any problem. I know how to route cables, I know how to connect it in a switchboard, but I lack theoretical knowledge and that's why I'm here.

As for the costs, my calculations show that I will have to run about 90 meters of cable (a separate circuit for each furnace) + fuses (3 pieces for one furnace) and that's probably all costs. The fact is that the cables are expensive, so I don't want to overpay unnecessarily, especially for one cable with a cross-section of, for example, 10 mm2.

By the way, I will ask what cable from the switching station to the meter. The switchboard also includes:
lighting = 1000W
water heater = 4.5 kW (3 phases)
2 heaters for 2 radiators - 3000W (1 phase)
6.4 kW induction hob (3 phases)
several sockets for standard use = let it be around 1000W

I can answer any question if asked.

Regards

Gregory

michcio · Answer

Is this an ordinary house? If so, the power of general sockets will probably be 2.5 kW. Plus other household appliances - they also have a lot of power.

Akrzy74 · Answer

I will ask out of curiosity-
What is your main protection, what is your power allocation, distance between the switchgear and the meter, ground or overhead connection, and whether you intend to do WLZ yourself ...

rysiu46 · Answer

Hello Wouldn't it be better and certainly safer to invite a licensed electrician who, after completing the installation, will sign the acceptance report. You will sleep more peacefully.

retrofood · Answer

I have already written: Here you have to do the normal electrical installation project . Of course, after inspection and consultation with the Investor. Any hints in absentia are dangerous !!! Colleagues, look at what powers we meet here. This is not a bell installation, where the size of the current, the selection and method of cable routing, as well as the type and size of protections do not matter much. Here mistakes threaten with serious consequences! Do you want to have it on your conscience?

Anonymous · Answer

Retrofood, do not overdo it, if it is a private apartment (house or garage), what do you need the project for? In that case, you would have to invite a UB designer and pay more for the project than for the material with labor and only to put it in a drawer.
Of course, a visit by a licensed electrician would be advisable and I do not dispute that after the installation is completed.
In my opinion, not providing information on the topic is contrary to the idea of this forum. Since a man is determined that he will do it himself and only asks for advice, no matter if I get here, he will do this installation anyway. If he receives information here, there is a chance he will do it better and safer. There is no need to worry that we will have someone on our conscience because it is not us, but the man who will make the installation and do something wrong will be to blame.
The fact is that on the forum (in general, I do not write that in this topic), there are often such advice that the hair is on the head with fright, but fortunately many electricians read the topics and there are such straightening advice quite quickly.

Akrzy74 · Answer

Button report to the moderator + 5 points does not bite This makes it easier for me to work, and for others to get the correct answer - it applies to legitimate rapporteurs ...

Grzegorz_n · Answer

Hello everyone :)

Thank you again for all your suggestions :)

I made my decision (I already had to) and purchased 100 meters of YDYp 5x2.5 mm2. A separate circuit + protection for each furnace. A little, or maybe even more than a little exaggerated, but it is better to always have a spare than not to run out when it turns out that one day such an installation will be used for something else.

However, I have a few other problems that I would like to attach to this topic, and they are related to my renovation, so if you want to continue the discussion, I invite you HORRIBLY, because I need your help just as badly.

Problem # 1.

I have to connect (temporary connection - in the old switchgear) the wires: 4x4 mm2 Al on one side, and 4x4 mm2 Cu on the other. After connection, the switchgear will be covered with KG plates and will not be accessible. Not only that, this connection is in the bathroom, where (while showering), a lot of steam will probably float.

Questions:
1. What kind of connection should be used so that it is durable and does not corrode, because, as we know, Cu cannot be combined with Al?
2. How to effectively and safely secure the above-mentioned connection against moisture?
3. After the connection is made, should it be bricked up / plastered over, should it be left in the free space of the switchgear, or else something else should be done?

Problem # 2.

For halogen lighting (bathroom, hall, dressing room) 2x1.5 mm2 cables were placed, and from what a colleague wrote michcio , it should be 3x1.5 mm2, i.e. additionally yellow-green to 2x1.5 mm2. We all know that theoretically (for it to work) 2x1.5 mm2 is enough, but I wonder if when you come from the power industry to connect a new installation, it won't cause problems for this?

Questions:
1. Do those from the power industry check such things before connecting a new installation?
2. Record on the design that there is a third strand, in fact only leave two ???
3. Should you leave two veins, apply the same number to the project and not worry about anything ???
4. Or maybe the third core should be used only for the bathroom (where there is moisture), and the other rooms should be left on two cores ???

Thanks a lot for everything

retrofood · Answer

Under no circumstances should this be done 1. Special tips are available for purchase. details - in the electric wholesaler 2. Make the other side of the bathroom wall. 3. Make a normal switchboard with doors. Can be hidden in the wall. 1. No. 2. No. 3. Halogens I would advise to convert to 12V. Safer, more durable and no need for a third cord 4. I would give it to everyone, but in the bathroom it is necessary (and the difference)

Akrzy74 · Answer

Grzegorz-n, among other things, wrote- Buddy, this is some mistake! The third lived / as you call her / is to save your life, not for the men with ED! It is high time to call an electrician for this installation. I consider the topic closed.

zubel · Answer

If you have soooo power allocation, then by the meter, if it is a single-family house without economic activity. One lighting and one socket are enough to receive.
What will you do after the receipt is yours and, possibly, the prosecutor's case. Are you looking for savings on a few meters of cable? 2x1.5 or3x1.5? That's laugh! You won't connect these furnaces directly from the installation because they are not built-in permanently. You have to install something indirect! A socket and a plug or a box and a Ly cable between them. Better ask an electrician!

Al-masudi · Answer

I work in the industry that assembles AEG, Inproel and Dimplex accumulation stoves. You did the right thing by giving a 5x 2.5mm cable
The furnaces are powered by defacto 230, not 400 V. Each heater gets 230V.
Can you know what kind of stoves do you have?
With this number of stoves, I would install a weather controller.

Appropriate Cable Selection for 6kW 400V Storage Furnaces & Heaters

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