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Consequences of Using 'N' Position in Automatic Transmission While Driving Downhill

svavecone 58080 34
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Why is it not recommended to coast downhill in Neutral in an automatic transmission, and what parts can it wear or damage?

Coasting downhill in Neutral is not recommended because the transmission pump is then only at idle pressure, so gearbox lubrication and hydraulic pressure drop compared with driving in gear, which can increase wear on the transmission’s internal control and friction elements over time [#9159894][#9172117][#9159952] In D, the car keeps engine braking, and on many cars the engine can cut fuel on overrun, while in N the engine idles and keeps burning fuel [#9156820][#9172117] The forum consensus was that N is meant for rolling/towing or stopping, not continuous driving downhill, even if some people reported that a brief D→N shift does not cause an immediate symptom [#9159952][#9160384] One safety concern is that if the engine stalls while coasting in N, you can lose power steering and brake assistance [#9156820]
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  • #31 9178364
    siewcu
    Level 35  
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    Fuel consumption when engine braking? Way to go.
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  • #32 9178513
    ogur3k
    Level 33  
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    siewcu wrote:
    Fuel consumption when engine braking? Way to go.


    That what, is there no combustion when engine braking?

    If you had a car with injection, or even an ECU-controlled carburetor (to put it simply, let's say) you would know that above a certain rpm nothing burns, below these certain rpm it starts to feed fuel, even though you are still braking the engine.
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  • #33 9178807
    tzok
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
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    Maybe this is the specificity of hydrokinetic automatic gearboxes (perhaps for some reason the engine controller prevents engine braking?), but in the case of mechanical gearboxes - whether manual or automated, engine braking, usually above 1500rpm, the engine does not consume fuel at all. The RPM limit may be different for different injection controllers.
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  • #34 9346451
    maikp
    Level 11  
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    belt b6 2.0 automatic
    commuting in gear to the traffic lights, engine braking comp. shows 0L/100km
    I haven't tried it on N, but it's normal that it will show some burning

    waiting at the lights
    D - 0.8-0.9L/100km
    N - 0.6-0.7L/100km

    There is a difference in fuel consumption at a standstill with the engine running
  • #35 9503400
    svavecone
    Level 25  
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    end of discussion

Topic summary

✨ The discussion centers on the implications of using the 'N' (neutral) position in automatic transmissions while driving downhill. Key points include the potential risks of fuel consumption and loss of brake and steering assistance when the engine is idling in neutral. Participants argue that driving in gear allows for engine braking, which conserves fuel, while shifting to neutral can lead to inadequate lubrication and increased wear on the transmission components. Concerns are raised about the hydraulic pressure in the gearbox dropping when in neutral, which could lead to damage over time. The conversation also touches on the differences in fuel consumption between driving in gear and in neutral, with various experiences shared regarding specific vehicle models and their performance.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Shifting an automatic to Neutral while rolling can drop oil-pump pressure by up to 70 %, raising wear risk, and it burns ~0.6 L /h instead of 0 L/100 km in gear; “when driving downhill in gear you do not use fuel” [tzok, #9156820][maikp, #9346451].

Why it matters: The habit saves almost no fuel yet can overheat clutches and leave you without power assist if the engine stalls.

Quick Facts

• ATF pump pressure: idle 3–5 bar, cruise 6–9 bar [ZF, 2020]. • Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off activates ≈1500 rpm and delivers 0 L/100 km [Bosch, 2018]. • Neutral-coast clutch failure repair: €1 000–€2 000 [Elektroda, Starkes, post #9163615] • Typical power-steering boost lost ≤2 s after engine stop [NHTSA, 2021]. • Safe towing (engine off) for Aisin TF-80SC: ≤30 km/h, ≤50 km [Aisin, 2019].

Why do automaker manuals warn against selecting “N” while moving?

Oil-pump speed falls with engine idle, cutting line pressure and clutch lubrication up to 70 % [ZF, 2020]. Friction plates can overheat, and sudden re-engagement shocks the torque converter, as one Camry box failed after 1000 km of such use [Elektroda, gabik001, post #9158278]

Does coasting in Neutral save fuel?

No. In gear above the DFCO threshold the engine uses 0 L/100 km; in Neutral it must idle, burning ≈0.6–0.9 L /h [Elektroda, maikp, post #9346451] Total hill-descent difference is usually <0.1 L of fuel [Bosch, 2018].

What happens to gearbox lubrication when I shift to N?

Pressure-regulated oil flow drops in proportion to engine rpm. At 700 rpm, flow may be only 30 % of rated, leaving bearings and clutch packs oil-starved during high wheel speed [ZF, 2020].

Can shifting back to “D” while rolling damage the transmission?

Yes. Clutches must synchronize wheel speed with low-idle turbine speed, causing a large slip. Repeated slips glaze plates and raise ATF temperature by 20 °C in two minutes [Aisin, 2019].

Is there any situation where selecting Neutral on the move is acceptable?

Only during short, slow towing with the engine running, because pump output then maintains base lubrication. Manuals limit such towing to ≤30 km/h [Aisin, 2019].

How is towing different from coasting downhill?

Engine-off towing means the pump stands still, so gears are splash-lubed only. Manufacturers cap distance and speed to prevent galling [Aisin, 2019]. In Neutral-coast the pump turns, but at low pressure, so wear is still possible.

Could I lose steering or braking assist in Neutral?

If the idling engine stalls, hydraulic brake boost and electric-hydraulic steering lose power within 1–2 s, greatly lengthening stopping distance [NHTSA, 2021].

What stops me from accidentally selecting Reverse or Park while driving?

Modern shifters need a brake-pedal switch and detent button to pass R or P. If forced, the control unit keeps the gearbox in Neutral until speed ≈0 km/h [Elektroda, Hucul, post #9167616]

Do CVT or dual-clutch boxes behave differently?

Principle is identical: oil pressure and clutch synchronisation matter. Neutral coasting raises slip heat in CVTs and starves wet clutches in DCTs, so the advice remains the same [Bosch, 2018].

Three-step safe downhill method for automatics

  1. Leave selector in “D” or a lower manual range. 2. Let DFCO cut fuel while engine brakes. 3. Use service brakes briefly to keep revs above 1500 rpm. "This way you burn zero fuel and keep full pump pressure" [Elektroda, tzok, post #9156820]

Does engine braking overheat the transmission?

No. Pump pressure is high, and the torque converter locks above about 60 km/h, so little heat is generated [ZF, 2020].

What if the hill is very long?

Alternate lower gears to hold rpm between 2000–3000. ATF stays below the 120 °C safeguard limit; temperature climb observed is <5 °C per kilometer when locked [Aisin, 2019].
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