Splashproof sockets in the kitchen - what standards are in force?

Hello to all professionals. I would like to know if there is any standard regarding the obligation to install splash-proof sockets in the kitchen?
I would like to mention that there is neither a bathtub nor a shower pool (PN-91 / E-05009/701), and even less a swimming pool (PN-91 / E-05009/702).
Thank you in advance for the reliable information from the licensed electrician who is up-to-date with the changes in the regulations.

I see that my friend has stale information:
http://enormy.pl/?m=doc&nid=PN-29.020.00-00098

I could ask for the number or title, because the link does not work.

wojciecha wrote:

Hello to all professionals. I would like to know if there is any standard regarding the obligation to install splash-proof sockets in the kitchen?
I would like to mention that there is neither a bathtub nor a shower pool (PN-91 / E-05009/701), and even less a swimming pool (PN-91 / E-05009/702).
Thank you in advance for the reliable information from the licensed electrician who is up-to-date with the changes in the regulations.

But what exactly do you mean? Type of sockets? What should the installation and security look like? Please specify the question.

Read here:
http://www.e-instalacje.pl/a/4032,garówkaa-w-lazience

I mean, is there any requirement in a standard home kitchen installation to install airtight sockets. I emphasize in KITCHEN .

If it is an apartment, I very rarely see it, when someone has such sockets in the kitchen (although sometimes under the sink, where, for example, a customer has a dishwasher on, such a socket is).
But if it's a bar or a restaurant, I have almost always seen such bay in such a kitchen.

I don't mean what who has seen, but what the standards are. A colleague of ele_pp suggests that there is a recipe that says this. Unfortunately, the link that my colleague ele_pp gave are the standards that I cited, but not applicable at all KITCHEN

Hello.

No, buddy Wojciech , I only referred to the question post

Quote:

(PN-91 / E-05009/701) and especially the swimming pool (PN-91 / E-05009/702)

and indicated that the given PN-91 ... are out of date.
And in fact, neither the old nor the new ones apply to the kitchen, which we explained outside the forum, so what's the point?

I have no more questions, since the experts from this forum have not heard about such requirements for the kitchen, it means that so far such standards do not exist and that is what I meant.

As in the first answer you wrote that I have outdated information, I thought it was precisely on this issue that I asked about. So there is a standard regarding the installation requirements in kitchens. The link didn't work and I couldn't verify what it was about. You rightly noticed that I referred to the old standard by giving examples, for which I sincerely apologize to everyone, but it did not come directly from the content of your post.

Hello.

Because standards should be treated holistically, not selectively.
The fact that we have standards related to bathing rooms, equipped with a bathtub or shower, results from the particular risk of electric shock in these rooms.

The list of standards (not fully up-to-date) is available HERE

ele_pp wrote:

The list of standards (not fully up-to-date) is available HERE

Since you have analyzed the entire list, maybe you will indicate those withdrawn / replaced?

As of today, the regulations say about the most important thing: rooms with high humidity ... etc. in your case, the kitchen and bathroom should be protected with a residual current device and 0.03A and the sockets should be hermetic, with a zeroing pin (do not confuse zeroing with grounding) briefly.
I will not write about the zones, for example in the bathroom, where, how and what voltages can be used, because it's all on the net. If you have any idea and know what you are looking for, you will find it. That's it ...

If a colleague I write that should be then please provide a specific provision that prescribes it.
Otherwise, a colleague creates another myths that have no basis in the applicable standards.
And today, all sockets should be protected with an RCD switch, not only those in the kitchen and bathroom.
This is the standard PN HD 60364 4-41.

kkas12 wrote:

If a colleague I write that should be then please provide a specific provision that prescribes it.
Otherwise, a colleague creates another myths that have no basis in the applicable standards.
And today, all sockets should be protected with an RCD switch, not only those in the kitchen and bathroom.
This is the standard PN HD 60364 4-41.

Yes, but I wrote about a specific example of a friend who is concerned with the kitchen and the fact that new installations should be secured with RCDs is known.
I have been making electrical installations for 15 years. It is often the case that people cannot afford to replace the entire installation in a 4-room apartment with reinforced concrete walls. Forging furrows in these walls is expensive. Therefore, most often it performs installation only in bathrooms and kitchens, because people replace gas cookers with electric, induction, etc. Then the necessity of protection is done with RCD switches. The rest of the apartment stays on the old, two-wire installation where the RCD has no way to connect, unless you add PE, but this also misses the point because most of the old installations were Al cables and the cross-section of these cables is rather not enough for today's applications.

saratech wrote:

... and the sockets should be airtight ...

Can you give me the bearings for a hermetic single-phase socket, i.e. IP67 intended for home use ??

IP44 is a splash-proof socket.

My colleague is right, but please do not direct the thread in this direction. [Kkas12]

Hello.

Akrzy74 wrote:

Since you have analyzed the entire list, maybe you will indicate those withdrawn / replaced?

But it's a lot of work, because there are 20 of them + combinations for PN-HD 60364-7-715: 2006.

EDIT - A PN list not still valid

-> Saratech: if it is not "with reset pin" but "with protective contact" ...
And zeroing as well as grounding is a thing of the past. Currently, it is a connection to the PE conductor.
Maybe it is not fully compliant with the standards, but in the case of an apartment block from the 1970s with aluminum wlz, I believe that the best solution for bathrooms and kitchens will be a local grounded equipotential bonding (i.e. all protective contacts connected to each other, all metal installations and elements (bathtub ) connected with each other, everything is also connected with each other, and in the basement all metal installations connected to the earth electrode, reinforcement, etc. Additionally, RCDs on all circuits in the apartment (also where the sockets do not have a protective contact and PE wire).
In such blocks it happens that on the top floors between the N conductor and the ground (e.g. central heating pipe) there are several V - which can already be felt with a wet hand.
And as for sockets "with a flap" in the kitchen - common sense. If there is a chance of splashing it with water - e.g. a sink tap with a shower and the socket within its reach - use it. In other places, it doesn't make sense.
As far as I know, the standards are not an absolute requirement.

Buddy, promoting and recommending such a solution to all premises and buildings is a mistake.
After all, installations can work in various network systems, and these local equalizing connections can very easily become unearthed equalizing connections which must not be used in this case.
Not to mention RCDs in socket circuits without protective contact.

So please think carefully before giving such "advice" again so as not to force the moderators to react.

saratech wrote:

As of today, the regulations say about the most important thing: rooms with high humidity ... etc in your case kitchen and the bathroom should be ... and the sockets should be airtight ...

I could ask for a specific paragraph from which this conclusion follows.
How is a room with increased humidity defined there?

Colleagues, how it is finally or installed in the home kitchen sockets they must be airtight / splash-proof or not?

wojciecha wrote:

Colleagues, how it is finally or installed in home kitchen sockets they must be airtight / splash-proof or not?

The decision and responsibility rests with the designer (contractor, when there is no project). Placing splash-proof fittings in kitchens and other rooms with water is in accordance with the art of construction (the expression "construction art", in addition to standards and regulations, also appears in the designer's declaration of installation compliance).
This applies not only to sockets, also light switches have been placed in front of entrances and not in these rooms for years. Lighting should also be tight (in workplaces, because in the apartment everyone knows what they want).
I once encountered a case of frequent RCD tripping caused by damp IP20 boxes in the kitchen under the ceiling.

wojciecha wrote:

Colleagues, how it is finally or installed in the home kitchen sockets they must be airtight / splash-proof or not?

They do not have to. Of course, there may be some special considerations that will cause a deviation from this rule, but it is up to the designer and his rationale.

czesiu wrote:

The decision and responsibility rests with the designer (contractor, when there is no project). Placing splash-proof fittings in kitchens and other rooms with water is in accordance with the art of construction (the expression "construction art", in addition to standards and regulations, also appears in the designer's declaration of installation compliance).

Without exaggeration.

czesiu wrote:

This applies not only to sockets, also light switches have been placed in front of entrances and not in these rooms for years. Lighting should also be tight (in workplaces, because in the apartment everyone knows what they want).

This is a fantasy.

czesiu wrote:

I once encountered a case of frequent RCD tripping caused by damp IP20 boxes in the kitchen under the ceiling.

A spartan installation cannot cause a policy change. A normally made can with normal connections is not allowed to cause similar symptoms even in clouds of steam.
But when someone tapes the twisted connections with a rotten tape ... we have effects as well.

Well, so far 2: 2 only has no basis
I repeat the question: is there somewhere in the standards or other regulations that regulate such a requirement that only splash-proof sockets must be installed in the kitchens of the household , or they may define the distance from the sink, as regulated by the regulations on bathtubs and shower trays.

Buddy, the answer was long ago.
As for bathrooms, see the standard PN-HD 60364-7-701: 2010
Low voltage electrical installations - Part 7-701: Requirements for special installations or locations. Rooms with bath or shower
A little invention on your part.

Kkas I can see that my question not only causes problems in its interpretation and I don't understand why. Once again, someone answers me referring to rooms with a bathtub or a paddling pool. Perhaps you have such appliances in the kitchen, but I mean a standard kitchen in an apartment block. Also, I don't know why you think I have already received an answer. So far, two say that there is no and two that there is such a provision, but they did not cite it
I mean the answer in one of two versions:

1. There is no such provision.

or

2. Yes, splash-proof sockets should be installed in the kitchen in accordance with ...

There is no provision requiring the installation of splash-proof sockets in kitchens located in residential premises.
There is no standard for such rooms.
As for the bathrooms, will your friend find there information about the distance at which the socket can be placed from the washbasin?
Is there an analogy between this wash basin and the kitchen sink?

Is that enough, my colleague, or does he want to vote?
At the author's request, I am restoring the topic. [Kkas12]