lamp with a grounding wire and no grounding in the installation

I bought a lamp with a metal housing that will hang quite low. Three wires come out of the lamp: brown (phase), blue (neutral) and yellow-green (ground). The problem is that I do not have a grounding wire in the house lighting system. I have sockets, but not lighting. I also have a differential. So how do you connect the lamp correctly? What to do with the yellow-blue ground wire. I thought to bridge it, connect it to zero, but I don't know if it's acceptable in this case. I am afraid that without the earth connection in this lamp, I may get electrocuted.

There is no other solution, you have to let go of the PE conductor. If it were an old TN installation (similar to the current TN-C), the PE of the luminaire should be bridged with the installation's neutral wire. Why is there no PE wire in the lighting circuit? They were not replaced, did you save when exchanging?

The house was built 15 years ago by my father-in-law and I don't know why they did it. Previously, I lived in an apartment building from the 1970s and it was like that there, too, except that there was no earthing in the sockets and the zero pin was bridged.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

Do the new regulations require the use of an earthing conductor in the lighting installation? I am interested in this because the construction of the house has been interrupted and it has lost its building permit and now it will probably be necessary to adapt the building to the current requirements.

Added after 5 [minutes]:

in lighting boxes (as opposed to socket boxes) I do not have a third wire. Only phase and zero.

And is it sometimes the case that connecting the PE of the lamp to N will result in the closing of the short-circuit between L and N (i.e. normally) in the event of a phase breakdown on the casing, due to the practically zero impedance, overcurrent.

When the PE is not connected at all, then the phase break on the casing will make it sit there until the first better circuit is closed (e.g. the wife wants to wipe the lamp with a damp cloth). The RCD should then trip if the wife is well grounded and the RCD is operational and functional. If the RCD does not work, the wife will be "chased" by a current so low that overcurrent protection will not work.

That's it.

Moderated By retrofood:

A warning is given for such advice.

The matter is so serious that I plan to buy a similar lamp for the bathroom.
Or maybe connect it to the ceiling, for example? then in the event of a breakdown, the circuit will close and break the differential?

Added after 1 [minutes]:

the chandelier is new

I would like to add that during the renovation I touched the lighting phase and it shocked me (at least I think so, because sometimes this stuffing onto a copper wire will cause a similar sensation). The electronics engineer said that it was not possible because the differential would break out.

I have such a chandelier in my room, and the lamp will be bought for the bathroom. I used the word "similar" in the context of the method of installation (it also has a ground cable). In the bathroom there will also be a wall lamp above the mirror, which will also have a ground wire.

Regulations and common sense require that the housing of the luminaire made in protection class I should be connected to the protective conductor. In the rooms, you do not need to use a residual current device for the lighting circuits, in the bathroom yes.
Protection against direct contact has nothing to do with it.
No ceiling connection is allowed, only the insertion of the PE conductor.
Alternatively, purchase of luminaires in protection class II.

OK, I have to read into these protection classes of lamps.

cKKqa wrote:

ozerus wrote:

I would like to add that during the renovation I touched the lighting phase and it shocked me (at least I think so, because sometimes this stuffing onto a copper wire will cause a similar sensation). My brother-in-law said that it was not possible because the differential would break out.

My friend should break it, it turns out that you have something wrong with the installation and it needs to be inspected.
I will not forget one day when the senior electrician got scared The riser was replaced. The work was in a voltage-free state and he started to work (an electrician with experience) And suddenly he runs and swears at us who turned on the voltage And we all fear in our eyes and everyone runs to the junction and everything is disconnected there. Well, one electrician went and checked it and it turned out that the foreman "forged" an isolated wire from the wire

Quote:

I have such a chandelier in my room, and the lamp will be bought for the bathroom. I used the word "similar" in the context of the method of installation (it also has a ground cable). In the bathroom, there will also be a wall lamp above the mirror, which will also have a ground wire.

Protection class II (double insulation) or class III (12V / 24V circuits).

The differential will not break if someone touches the phase and rests on the neutral wire at the same time. The problem is that the colleague who starts the thread is not sure if it is TNC or TNCS or TNS. The fact that someone installed a differential does not mean the type of network. It may also be that some of the sockets are grounded by zeroing, some already have PE. Then, while leaning on an N-grounded washing machine, you can get electrocuted by touching the phase.

I do not want an additional warning, but it is worth having a colleague check all sockets and connections in the house and reconnect them as they should be. If 3-wire circuits are bad (e.g. bathroom or kitchen sockets), then use connections throughout the room as in TNCS / TNS in another room, if there is a 2-wire installation, use grounding by neutral (assuming that these are separate circuits, the first circuit RCD, the second is overcurrent, appropriately selected). However, you can never "mix" in the kitchen, for example, some of the pins to PE and some to N, because it is dangerous.

my advice: call an electrician who will determine and issue a document with his own signature. Any other "professional" to sell. First of all - security !.

boe666 wrote:

I do not want an additional warning, but it is worth having a colleague check all sockets and connections in the house and reconnect them as they should be.

Very glorious intentions, but buddy, you advise in the beginner's section. Do you think that the Author is able to check the sockets (and not only, because you need to check what circuits are included in the differential) and connect everything correctly?
I have doubts about it.

I try to advise as much as I can, and at least the post has not been deleted.

Finally, I advised the user who to call for help if he does not feel up to speed.

As for the diagnosis of sockets - it is not difficult - you can try it yourself, but you need to know what you are looking for and what is expected after the measurements.

so much on my part.

boe666 wrote:

I try to advise as much as I can, and at least the post has not been deleted.

Finally, I advised the user who to call for help if he does not feel up to speed.

As for the diagnosis of sockets - it is not difficult - you can try it yourself, but you need to know what you are looking for and what is expected after the measurements.

so much on my part.

I will skip non-substantive comments, because this is not the place for them, but your application is correct. It is not difficult to diagnose, but you must first work out the individual circuits in the installation. Without it - no diagnosis will tell you anything honestly.
So the only way out is for someone who can do it with an understanding of what he is doing.

ozerus wrote:

Do the new regulations require the use of an earthing conductor in the lighting installation?

Yes.

ozerus wrote:

I am afraid that without the earth connection in this lamp, I may get electrocuted.

Right reasoning.

ozerus wrote:

I also have a differential.

What is this switch connected to? For lighting. However, getting out of the situation, after all, requires pulling the PE wire to each lighting outlet.

cKKqa wrote:

My friend should break it, it turns out that you have something wrong with the installation and it needs to be inspected.

And why such a mocking belief that if the RCD does not turn off (after touching the phase with your hand), then there is something wrong with the switch or the installation?
Please do not create new theories and stop misleading.

Yes, I would like to say that touching a live wire (e.g. an uninsulated wire protruding from a wall) does not guarantee that the RCD will be disabled. Why? Every student of electrical engineering should know the answer to this question

Ok, so I concluded that it would be best to check exactly what type of installation I have (TNC or TNCS or TNS) and then try to find a 100% clarification of the doubts. At any rate, I will leave the lamp's ground cable loose for now.

Łukasz-O wrote:

Every student of electrical engineering should know the answer to this question

They taught me this in high school. And I didn't go to a technical school. The teacher put an uninsulated rod into the holes (sequentially, of course) and nothing happened.

I will refresh the thread. I have a lamp for connection with earthing (leakage class I), and installation without such a cable. I have 2 cables with 2 wires in the ceiling (there is a lamp with a double switch). Is it possible to connect this lamp somehow, or do I have to replace it with a lamp in the 2nd class? Is it possible to use 1 core of the second cable as ground?

rol23 wrote:

I will refresh the thread. Leaks), and installation without such a cable. In the ceiling I have 2 cables, 2 each

Without what cable? There are 4 wires sticking out, i.e. there is no PE after all?

Buddy rol23. The problem should not be what lamp you bought, but what type of installation you have in the apartment. When we do not find out, we are not able to define anything more precisely.

ozerus wrote:

I bought a lamp with a metal housing that will hang quite low. Three wires come out of the lamp: brown (phase), blue (neutral) and yellow-green (ground). The problem is that I do not have a grounding wire in the house lighting system. I have sockets, but not lighting. I also have a differential. So how do you connect the lamp correctly? What to do with the yellow-blue ground wire. I thought to bridge it, connect it to zero, but I don't know if it's acceptable in this case. I am afraid that without the earth connection in this lamp, I may get electrocuted.

but combinations, if there is PE + N + L in the sockets, connect the wires from the lamp with the 230V plug to the socket with grounding, and it is best to commission this work to someone with appropriate permissions cost of the cable with labor is not great and safety is high

This is exactly what it is. There are 2 cables with 2 wires hanging from the ceiling. Of course there is in PE sockets. If the lamp requires grounding, I would like to connect one of the wires of the other cable to PE in the nearest socket. I can hammer the wall, the ceiling - not. So you can do that?

You have 4 wires in the ceiling, which is enough to install a lamp with protection class I on a double connector, assuming that the installation is properly made.

You need to check in the box how these 4 wires are connected, among others with the wires from the switch, which, given your knowledge, may be too difficult - you have not even written what color the wires are - if there is no yellow-green, you must have someone who will check it carefully.

Of course, I'm not going to do this alone. I just wanted to know if there was anything else to do about it. Thanks for the answers.