Ground Floor Flat: Detecting Neighbors' Cooking & Cigarette Smells via Ventilation Grille

Dear Forum Members,

I would like to advise you on the following problem:
Recently, I have a flat on the ground floor (large slab, 3 floors, ventilation in the kitchen and toilet + gas stove chimney) and unfortunately I hear the smells of cooked dishes notoriously from the ventilation grille in the kitchen (mainly from the neighbor on the 1st floor) ) and the smell of cigarettes (neighbor from the 2nd floor). While I would be able to withstand the smells of the dishes, tobacco smoke is unacceptable to me.

I have a question for you, if and how can you check the ventilation? It seems to me that the premises (only 3) should theoretically be connected to separate flues.
Is it "normal" that I smell smells from neighbors, that is, de facto receive their air ?? Chimney sweeps, as they were at the annual inspection, did not find any problems with ventilation. And I assume that the air is blown in, because I do not see any other possibility for me to smell cigarettes from a neighbor living 2 floors above (!).

And finally, is it possible to somehow prevent neighbors' smells (air) from being "blown" into my apartment?
If I had a window open all the time, would the ventilation finally "pull out" and not "blow"?
Could chimney sweepers install some kind of check valves at my request?
Can the chimney be leaky somewhere - how to tighten / seal it (they are in prefabricated concrete lines)?

Your windows are too tight.
I do not know if you have it correctly, in the blocks I know, each room has an individual ventilation duct and is not shared with any neighbor.
So it seems incorrect, even in the eyes of peasant reason and logic, without resorting to regulations and norms.
For example, if you turn on the stove in the bathroom, if you switch on the stove more, it will draw you in the smells from the lower floor.
Even if it was cologne ..

According to the regulations, the ventilation duct can be connected to every second floor
chimney in every third. Not everyone has their own chimney.
There can be several reasons, e.g. the neighbors have installed mechanical ventilation (which is not allowed) and the air goes along the least resistance line. The next is that your windows are too tight and there is no flow, and it may happen that when the wind comes from certain directions, the air simply blows you in. from the outside, adding the smells of neighbors.
The easiest way is to check from time to time whether there is a "thrust" with a match attached to the ventilation grille. Especially when the smells intensify. And that would be the basis for any complaints to the administration. The fact that the chimney sweeps checked it means that on this day and at this hour it was good.
But I would like to remind you that it is not only a matter of unpleasant smells but also your safety, because from what you write you have gas stoves.

The windows are plastic (I've already found them), so they can actually be too tight. Do you think that cutting the seal from the top edge of windows in all rooms could help?

As for the fire flame test, I will check it as soon as I get smelled by tobacco smoke again: /

Windows should have micro functions (1 phase of closing), there is no need to cut out the seal.

[quote = "Vacl

As for the fire flame test, I will check it as soon as I smell tobacco smoke again: / [/ quote]
I understand and I sympathize with you , check the flame with the window open and closed. Do not cut out the seals, because in our climate winter comes from time to time. But if that was a problem, you can insert manually or automatically ventilators into the windows.

Gentlemen,

I made a rehearsal with a candle.
Let's start at the end:
- toilet (connected to the bathroom, gas stove in the bathroom). The flame did not really extend. Better when you open the window.

In the kitchen, I have a grille stuck on due to the fact that the repairman noticed that it was terribly dusty (and at the same time the gas stove is turned off). Actually, that would confirm the reverse thrust. The flame was gently leaning towards the grate.

However, I discovered that behind the ventilation duct, in the so-called "vertical" there is an old elbow (the owners probably connected the kucheny hood there; now blinded). And it is plugged into the ventilation, but there are holes all around - there the flame is eagerly protruding out.

What do you think about it? Is this ventilation working too poorly?

As for the seals in the windows, I am ready to cut them - my windows do not have any unsealing, and the seals can be easily removed / installed, so for the winter there is no problem with reinserting the cut section. The only question is:
- in which rooms should the seals be cut? All of them?
- how many gaskets to cut?

Still call chimney sweep / draft problem to ADM?

Miracle, cut wherever you want.
This will affect the path of fresh air, you want it everywhere, everywhere, the more windows you devote to this treatment, the smaller fragments of gaskets you can cut.
You can check the effectiveness with a candle, because you have one, or with strips of delicate tissue paper.

There are standards that say how many times in which rooms the air must be replaced within an hour, most in the bathroom (toilet), kitchen, the least in the rooms. If this is not the case, the chimney sweep will do nothing to you, you simply need to provide fresh air. gas stove, if in the bathroom, what is the air supply - grilles in the door? On the other hand, I am curious how this chimney sweep made a review if you have such a closed "can". As for this sealed grille, the question is again how the chimney sweep took it, because if it is dusty it means that there is no draft.

Okay, so I'll cut pieces of the gasket in each room.

leszek56 wrote:

There are standards that say how many times in which rooms the air must be replaced within an hour, most in the bathroom (toilet), kitchen, the least in the rooms. If this is not the case, the chimney sweep will do nothing to you, simply provide fresh air

Here I have a question - how will it do nothing? After all, the ventilation cannot be faulty - should the ducts (blockages?) Be thoroughly checked, maybe one of the (two) neighbors has made a small modification to it, or maybe something has just been kicked and e.g. there should be other terminals on the roof to provide better draft? After all, such checks do not make sense if the chimney sweep "does nothing".

leszek56 wrote:

One question is, where do you have the gas stove installed, if in the bathroom, what is the air supply - grilles in the door?

In the bathroom. Of course, the door has grilles, but a very large grate is between the bathroom and the toilet - because only the toilet has a ventilation duct.

leszek56 wrote:

As for this sticky grille, the question is again how the chimney sweep took it, because if it gets dusty it means that there is no draft

It is dusty, dusty. The refrigerator is under the grate and it is "covered" with some dust, sand.

In conclusion - gaskets to be cut out. And report the faulty ventilation to ADM and drill them down until it's okay? Require from the chimney sweep some protocol with the measurement results, etc. to have black and white ventilation efficiency? Is he obliged to issue one?

Report the malfunctioning ventilation to the ADM, you can add something about the headaches when it comes to a gas stove that should hurry them up. Let the chimney sweep tell you in black and white what to do in order to have good ventilation. Or maybe they will have to add chimneys and heaters. Let him check if the neighbors have not installed fans on the ventilation. You do not need to know about it, you want to have ventilation and they are to provide you. And it is not about the unpleasant smell of cigarettes, but about the safety of you and your family because there are no jokes with the gas heater

Vaclav79 wrote:

leszek56 wrote:

One question is, where do you have the gas stove installed, if in the bathroom, what is the air supply - grilles in the door?

In the bathroom. Of course, the door has grilles, but a very large grate is between the bathroom and the toilet - because only the toilet has a ventilation duct.

Then do one more test. Turn on the boiler and close the windows - then check how the air blows through the grilles.

Gentlemen, I have two more questions:

1) with what (i.e. what material: foam, special mortar, glue?) "seal" holes in the wall of the ventilation duct, at the point where the blind "elbow" meets the duct (solid concrete, prefabricated element)? The case is that a lot of air is sucked / blown from there instead of to / from the grille. And I do not see the need to ventilate the technical division ...

2) I read about diffusers installed on windows. The question is, are they able to provide effective ventilation of the rooms, or is it better to go for a more blunt solution, i.e. removing gaskets? Ev. mix, that is, a seal to say goodbye in the kitchen, and in the rest of the rooms (no ventilation grilles, because the toilet is "blind") these vents (to keep "silence")? Are hygroscopic ok?

[quote = "Vaclav79"] Gentlemen, I have two more questions:

1) with what (i.e. what material: foam, special mortar, glue?) "seal" holes in the wall of the ventilation duct, at the point where the blind "elbow" meets the duct (solid concrete, prefabricated element)? The case is that a lot of air is sucked in / blown from there instead of to / from the grille. And I do not see the need to ventilate the technical division ...
If you want to fight the effects and not the causes, understand that if it is blowing something wrong, sealing is only a half-measure. Of course, the duct should be tight but this will not solve the problem. Efficient ventilation in the case of gas flats is SAFETY !!! .

But I understand it ;)

That's why I call the chimney sweep and cut the gaskets out in the coming days. But by opening the "topic - ventilation" I also want to fully close it - that is why I want to seal the elbow / duct joint in the precast concrete element.
Because with ventilation (regardless of whether it is functional or not) why should I draw air from the "riser" if it has to pull from the kitchen?

So I repeat the question - what / how to seal a metal elbow with a concrete "chimney" prefabricated element?

Seal with mounting foam. It is still unknown where the air for the boiler comes from - or by chance not from your grilles, which should extract air and serve as air supply.

Within a few days, the topic grew rapidly and it is difficult to catch all the issues raised.

1
I believe that the only reason it catches the smells from the neighbors above is the reverse thrust - instead of blowing it away. And so it can be up to half the height of the building. In itself, this is not harmful - on the ventilation ducts.
((And on the flue gas - it will not occur - the flue gas temperature and a properly constructed chimney must give the right draft.))

The phenomenon depends on the temperature outside - it will be weaker in spring and autumn.
In winter, when you heat poorly, it blows out in the upper part of the building and the air is replenished in the lower part - "chimney draft phenomenon"
How to fight it - a separate question, can let the windows gasp for air? And heat (bathroom) strongly.
Install a roof vent on the chimney on your duct? / roof fan?
I don't see good and cheap / reliable solutions, you can try different things.

2 The fact that you smell from your neighbors are two possibilities
a) the ventilation ducts (between themselves) are leaky - that's poverty, the problem is how to seal them? You can combine the chimney by inserting the chimney liners made of steel sheet or PVC pipes - I would leave this pleasure for later, when point b fails.

b) the ventilation ducts are tight - the smells are caught on the chimney outlets from the neighbors and sucked into your duct.
- It can be effective to place a PVC pipe (well fixed so that the wind does not break off) to increase the distance between the exhaust windows on the chimney / the path of exhaust air from neighbors and sucked into your duct.
However, the end of your duct extension must not come close to the sewer exhaust vent.
You can leave your channel unchanged and extend the channels to your neighbors. - It depends on the specific conditions - how is the chimney finished in your riser.


The regulations have changed over the years. Currently, each ventilation grille has its own channel and chimney = discharge above the roof.
In the past, grilles from every second floor could be connected to one channel. - And this system also works fine when there is no reverse thrust .

PS1
I have not found any information on how it is in your case, I do not think that three more apartments are included in one channel.
The method of inclusion of the channels is best checked with the appropriate administration employee - if three more are included in one channel - then it's a big brawl, or better paperwork about adding another ventilation channel
(You can add a channel to your neighbor above.)

How is the project?

PS2
There are many different elements here, if there is no proper employee in the administration to remove these inconveniences - you need to seek help from chimney sweeps or other smart people in this matter.

I haven't felt any unpleasant odors for several days. Nevertheless, the candle test is unchanged: it pulls weakly in the kitchen, but it pulls, in the toilet it is necrosis (with the windows closed). As I was cleaning the gas stove, I allowed myself to gently remove this flexible aluminum flue gas pipe. It buzzes inside - it goes on. After putting the candle and hand into the channel until it makes a noise :)

I would like to add that there were no gasket cuts, because there is no standard use of the stove (when it is fired, i.e. an order to open windows in 2 rooms), renovation works are coming to an end.

@ Mariusz105 :

The building is made of prefabricated (Szczecin?), 3-storey. If I remember correctly, after the plasters had been hammered down, scratches on the blinded 2 other grilles appeared on the ventilation screens, next to my ventilation grille. This would prove that the ventilation riser has 3 channels - so having 3 flats vertically, each should be connected independently (but how is it - I don't know).

The closest plan is cutting the gaskets, candle test and summoning the ADM. I'm just wondering whether to sound the ADM alarm before or after the gaskets are cut. I am surprised that the channel "somehow" stretches in the kitchen (although it smelled like cigarettes from there!), And there is necrosis in the toilet - it should suck in the air in the same way ...?

The question I still have is, does the ventilation duct go below my ventilation grille and is "open" in the basement? Because I mean that maybe some brain was burning in the basement to "my" ventilation duct (but ... then it should also blow to the roof, not to my premises ...?)

PS. If it turns out that the channels are leaky and I need to insert the "sealing" pipes, then:
- is the event at my expense?
- is it equal to a demolition in the apartment (after renovation ...)? Is the procedure non-invasive?

Can you cut in? Mz cutting out the gaskets is pointless as it is an irreversible process. I recently bought window ventilators. Overall, I am satisfied. I already have two windows, there is still mounting on the other two. In a certain supermarket I bought it for ridiculous money. The quality may not be overwhelming, but they work well and can be closed when needed.

Everywhere scents wafting to the bane of the inhabitants of small block of housing estates, where, close, at lunchtime. Ventilation in the apartment will be essential. Fans are suitable for balancing the temperature inside the building and can also help to remove moisture and other carbon particles. To replace the polluted air that circulates in the structure from fresh outside air, an air fan is the best solution available on the market.

// ad removed. Mod Chris_W
3.1.10 surreptitious advertising

klimatfor wrote:

To replace the polluted air that circulates in the structure from fresh air from outside

And what is that term?

These are scraps of the seller of the fans - the address has already been removed.

I have a similar problem with smells, it is felt most in fall and winter. You can clearly see that the air will recede in the kitchen in the bathroom is OK. Through this backwater I can smell the neighbors, the block is not so old, it is 7-8 years old. The chimney sweep always says it's OK, the propeller is spinning, so it's git, only it is spinning in the wrong direction What do you think to mount grille with check valve will give it something ?? It will not be a threat ??

Hello,

I am also tired of smells from neighbors.

Today I came across something like this:

http://www.ergoeden.pl/o-kratce/8-kratka-wentylacyjna-autoaktywna-5904730691.html

(if the moderator considers it an advertisement, please remove the link).

Quote:

The grille openings are constructed conically. This means that the entrance area of the hole is larger than the exit area. Thanks to this, we obtain an internal draft already in the grate, which will discharge the used air into the shaft in an amount in accordance with the Polish construction standard.

Can such a construction of holes really help? I have mixed feelings, especially since the price of the grille is overpriced.

Such a grid is unlikely to prevent the so-called backwater, when the air presses from the ventilation inside, such miracles will not do anything. Nothing blocks the incoming air from the ventilation chimney. Such a grille will probably only limit the speed of air flow.

Either we keep warm and ventilated, or we smell our neighbor's cabbage soup and fight the mushroom. As always, the choice is up to the voter.
If the chip of the chimney measuring device, moved to the ventilation grille, starts to spin only after a few / several seconds from the moment the window is opened wide, it indicates bad ventilation, not a failure of the ventilation system.

I am asking what is this ventilation in which there are backs? And why the hell are windows with Uw = 45% how to ventilate? Something's not right.

Eryk1000 wrote:

I am asking what is this ventilation in which there are backs? And why the hell are windows with Uw = 45% how to ventilate? Something's not right.

And what has thermal transmittance for ventilation are two separate matters.

Added after 17 [minutes]:

Eryk1000 wrote:

I am asking what is this ventilation in which there are backs? And why the hell are windows with Uw = 45% how to ventilate? Something's not right.

And what has thermal transmittance for ventilation are two separate matters. How do you think you can eliminate moisture in your home and replenish your oxygen?

The topic is about backflow, not the elimination of moisture from the air. When it comes to replenishing this fresh air, 3 times a day, 5 minutes after I can open all windows and air through the apartment. But what if this backwater continues? And windows are bought tight and well insulated in order to be able to preserve thermal energy in the apartment, is that what it's all about?

Eryk1000 wrote:

The topic is about backflow, not the elimination of moisture from the air. When it comes to replenishing this fresh air, 3 times a day, 5 minutes after I can open all windows and air through the apartment. But what if this backwater continues? And windows are bought tight and well insulated in order to be able to preserve thermal energy in the apartment, is that what it's all about?

That is why modern windows are in conflict with ventilation (gravity) grilles - it's best not to connect them, but as we know from real life, you often have to make compromises.

And this grille with cones - it is possible that it will work on collecting channels, where the air flowing from the bottom supports the draft on it. I don't think it changes anything in the individual channel.