Remote control of heating in a 160m2 house - Fibaro or Danfoss Link?

Question

Welcome, i am in the process of renovating a bunk house of about 160m2, as we live in it I am doing one room at a time and changing the CO installation in each room. I am installing an eco-pea boiler next year. I'm fitting new panel radiators with thermostatic heads in the rooms. Sometimes in...

stkop · Answer

Maybe check out this esterownik.co.uk . I don't know if it is possible to control zones, but they specialise in remote management of eco-pea picks. Perhaps zone control can be done independently in such an installation.... but this would have to be checked.

blur · Answer

I already have a cooker with this controller and this is not an option.

Adarkar · Answer

You need to start from the beginning, i.e. create user specifications.
That is, what you want to control and how you want to control it, whether local, group or central. Whether replacing the heating involves replacing the whole heating system or just new radiators plus controls and a boiler room.

For my part, I advise against electronic thermostatic heads with a motor driven by an electric motor.

blur · Answer

Adarkar: as I wrote, every year 1-2 rooms will be renovated + the whole boiler room will be new, the control is to be both local and central, justify why you advise against electronic heads? Which ones have you had contact with? Or generally all of them suck, please justify.

Adarkar · Answer

So the pipes in the walls are also new and you can do everything on manifolds?
If so, buy manifolds with motors and flow meters and control via a motor in the boiler room with a controller in the room. Have a look at DEVIreg 550 and the DEVI system. Quite expensive, but very advanced.

As for the motorised heads, they just make a lot of noise at night. I've been playing around with a Honeywell RH-20 and the motor buzzes during closing opening, which is audible in the quiet of the night.

stkop · Answer

I don't know if these actuators make any noise, but the batarian way of powering the Z-wave heads is not very ergonomic in the long run either. If it wasn't to be an overhaul then ok, you can get away with it, but to fund yourself like this every season, and maybe more often, with a battery change. I don't think that's quite the point. Adarkar's direction seems right.

blur · Answer

As far as the costs are concerned, you can probably use rechargeable batteries or plug in the power supply, Adarkar: so you only tested these ?, I think I will buy 2 Dunfos Living Connect Z-Wave heads for a test, I was thinking about Fibaro but the price is a bit frightening, so I looked into the subject and I found something like this http://www.openremote.org/display/HOME/OpenRemote so we put a block with this software to this http://aeotec.com/z-wave-usb-stick and we have Fibaro ? admittedly not in Polish and probably not that extensive but the software is open, there is also an application for Android which is all I care about
theoretically I can start with something like Fibaro for 500PLN and not 3k

Added after 3 [hours] 11 [minutes]:

Adarkar wrote:
So pipes in the walls also new and you can do everything on manifolds?
If so, buy manifolds with actuators and flow meters and control via the actuator in the boiler room with the controller in the room. Have a look at DEVIreg 550 and the DEVI system. Quite expensive, but very advanced.

As for the motorised heads, they just make a lot of noise at night. I've been playing with a Honeywell RH-20 and during the closing opening process the motor hums, which can be heard in the still of the night.

sory but I don't see any way of hooking this DEVI up to the net or am I looking at it wrong ?, generally now it's all audible in the radiators, pump, feeder, I'll see how I can hear the Danfos Living Connect. As far as the installation is concerned such a valve island is out, too many of these pipes I would have to pull, this would be ok with the underfloor.

Adarkar · Answer

Good luck and let us know when you have realised.

stkop · Answer

How would one put it delicately.... and not to come off as warped. Go to the fibaro forum and google the forum and put in the search term - heating, faucets, danfoss and have a read. Unless you've already done that and it doesn't deter you. In your system, the problem is that actually hardware-wise the easiest way to implement this is by radio on thermostatic heads.... and in such a solution Z-wave is actually the exception among system solutions.

blur · Answer

I can implement this by wire, but I still don't see an alternative to either valves or LAN control

W0jtek92 · Answer

Hi. Is the control of the zones to be planned? e.g. you go for 5 days and on the 4th day out you raise the temperature or is it spontaneous i.e. you go for 5 days but it stretches to 8 days.? because this is quite important for the answer to your post.

blur · Answer

If this were to be planned then I would not need control from the network.

W0jtek92 · Answer

Ok. What kind of boiler and its programmer do you have? what will it be? such info is important.

stkop · Answer

Electrically controlled radiator valves are available. For example, the Fibaro Danfoss TWA-A NO 220V mentioned in the Forum. As for sensors (simple room thermostats won't do the job here anymore) but it would be nice if the user had room setting options. check: i-sab.co.uk - distributed Sterbox - integrated plc LanKontroller - cheap wonder

W0jtek92 · Answer

Well then you will be able to regulate the boiler via the main controller. Well then you need to look around for manifolds and actuators for them, Plus one CONCRETE room controller for sms or internet operation. Tell me if you want to do it yourself or through some company?

blur · Answer

unfortunately, the subjective feelings of the household confirm me in the desirability of centralized management, example - winter about -15 outside in the house comfortable 20-22, all the household members walk in long sleeves (the norm) but the stubborn mother-in-law in a short sleeve and every now and then turns the head to the maximum. now either falls from the cold or dresses a jumper, to the fuel does not contribute.

stkop · Answer

After all, blur wrote that a manifold is not an option. It's all about zonal temp control, not the main room controller.... well he's just looking into it and that's why he's asking on the forum. Added after 3 [minutes]: This makes it significantly easier. If optimal for you is to control only from interfaces via the internet then there are quite a few solutions.

blur · Answer

But this controller does not allow you to lower the temperature below 45 degrees, are you talking about manifolds like for underfloor heating ? if so that is out of the question I will not run 3x more pipes copper is in the price. What specific controller do you recommend ?

stkop · Answer

How many zones are you planning? Have you checked whether your solid fuel boiler allows for quite dynamic changes on the furnace [radiator] load side?

blur · Answer

6-8 zones, the cooker is quietly performing and very responsive, it has quite a large capacity and holds 50 degrees at all times so the water from the panels and the installation is not able to muddy it up.

stkop · Answer

My fear from this angle is that if your furnace charge starts to run at 100% and by chance the demand drops to 0%, will the excess energy be stored before the furnace has time to cool down.... well that's just my concern. I can suggest you something that I think is optimal [as I think it will come out inexpensive], but it is unfortunately quite a young product, so I suggest with a little distance. Reminiscent in principle of the eSterownik it is: NEL32M3v1.0 universal controller: 16 digital inputs of DS18B20 temperature transmitters, 6 relay outputs, RS485 master, Ethernet, works with dimenonline.eu platform from the NovelElectronics offer. The DS18b20 is the most common electronic temperature sensor to be placed, for example, under the frame of a white fixture. [find out how long the leads can be and use a recomed cable]. 6 outputs {for heads e.g. the ones I gave earlier } if not enough then more can be added via an additional executive module.

blur · Answer

I am not worried about the cooker, it has a number of safeguards and a situation where all the valves are closed at once is unlikely to occur, there would have to be a system failure.
It is a great pity that the ester controller does not have the possibility of zone regulation of heating, then one software and the whole heating system would be under control. You should simply write to the manufacturer with this proposal, maybe it is in the plans? I have read a little about NEL but I do not see here the possibility of defining heating zones and at least not in the demo account. I am very familiar with this temperature sensor.

stkop · Answer

I think with Nel it will do because even though there is no such presentation in the demo, considering the amount of inputs/outputs they can implement into the system shows that the software should show enough flexibility. As for www info there is no rule, companies present 5%, 100% or 500% of the products true capabilities. A question of awareness of the role of marketing. As for eSterownik... ask the manufacturer. Intuitively, I feel that you are in for a positive disappointment, as such functionality is just asking for it.

blur · Answer

I see that this system is some kind of early beta I don't have time to play with, I'm looking for a ready-made solution that works.

stkop · Answer

Well, but you would probably still like to lock in a reasonable budget. After all, it's all about saving on energy and controlling input consumption.

Hmm... again I have 'doubts', but this device has been around for a while:
http://tanieogrzewanie.istore.pl/pl/inteligen...y-termostaty-obsluga-przez-internet-z-pc.html

blur · Answer

i think I'm going to test Z-Wave, just one room to start with and see how it works out in practice, at the most I'll blow 500PLN

Remote control of heating in a 160m2 house - Fibaro or Danfoss Link?

How can I remotely control the temperature in individual rooms of a 160 m² house over the internet, preferably with a central system and without having to rebuild all the piping?

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