Running 12V from Switchboard to LED Strips: Distance and Switch Compatibility

Hello, I am preparing an electrical installation to connect LED strips in two suspended ceilings in the living room and kitchen. The suspended ceiling contractor noted that there would be no place to hide the power supplies under the ceilings. I thought that I would install one power supply common for two ceilings in the switchboard. I have about 5 m to the first switch and from it about 3 m to the ceiling, the distance to the second switch is 9 m and to the ceiling 3 m. Will I light up the LED strips on the ceilings by running 12v from the switchboard through two circuits to the switches? Can I use traditional light switches for this?

Hello. Will the power supplies be constantly under voltage? It should not be like that. The switch in each room should switch on the voltage to the power supply, 12V from the power supply directly to the LEDs.

How powerful will these LEDs be?
As my friend writes, you should interrupt the primary 230V side of the power supply with the switch, not the secondary side.

The layout is very simple.
We don`t know what power the power supplies will have, but you must remember that they will emit heat, so they must be placed in a well-ventilated place.
Assuming that there will be illuminated structures on the ceilings, there will most likely be two 100W power supplies.

When it comes to connection, you should control the power supply through the connector so that it is not constantly powered.

Additionally, you must remember about the voltage drop in the case of a long connection between the power supply and the receiver.

kasprzyk wrote:

you should interrupt the primary side of the 230V power supply with the switch, not the secondary side.

Complete nonsense, it`s as if you ordered the transformer powering the estate to be turned off on the primary side in order to turn off the lights.

e-sparks wrote:

kasprzyk wrote:

you should interrupt the primary side of the 230V power supply with the switch, not the secondary side.

Complete nonsense, it`s as if you ordered the transformer powering the estate to be turned off on the primary side in order to turn off the lights.

wow! e-sparks You, my mentor, can make an accurate comparison - bravo, you ;)

wecia91 - I ask again, what strength do you have these sections of tape?

kasprzyk wrote:

Bravo, you

Thank you

In the case of switching power supplies, it is even more advantageous to switch on the voltage of 12V.

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

In the case of switching power supplies, it is even more advantageous to switch on the voltage of 12V.

Great, what switches does your friend recommend? - let`s assume a 200W LED strip, for a living room it`s not much, the topic here concerns the bathroom: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3186142.html maybe your friend can advise what to do with burning contacts of the switch on the 230V side, will it be better on 12?

Dear Colleague. Contact strength you recommend when turning on the switching power supply
200W /capacitive load/ ?

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

Dear Colleague. Contact strength you recommend when turning on the switching power supply
200W /capacitive load/ ?

I asked you and ?

A good relay solves the problem.

Added after 1 [minute]:

Possibly IGBT.

So we come back to the question of what the power of the tapes used will be. By nature, the lighting of the living room or kitchen is not 5W tape sections, even if it is not the primary light source.
I suggest waiting behind the interested person.

kasprzyk wrote:

you should interrupt the primary side of the 230V power supply with the switch, not the secondary side.

Let your friend justify it.
The computer is not turned off on the primary side
The TV is not turned off on the primary side.

That`s right, but the computer and TV are not part of the installation.

kasprzyk wrote:

So we come back to the question of what will be the power of the tapes used,

It`s written. 200W.

CYRUS2 wrote:

The computer is not turned off on the primary side
The TV is not turned off on the primary side.

But they don`t have circuit breakers.

What do the regulations say about switching on power supplies for light sources at home?
Switching on switching power supplies on the primary side (surge current, capacity) with ordinary switches does not improve durability.
I have a case of switching on a switching power supply for LED /2m/, 5W. The switch and relay in the occupancy sensor need to be replaced regularly.
Turning on the fluorescent lamp (2 x 36W) with an RM 84/16A relay for resistance exhausted him within a month. Only replacing it with R15 solved the problem.

Added after 1 [minute]:

CYRUS2 wrote:

"retrofood"

It`s written. 200W.

CYRUS2 wrote:

The computer is not turned off on the primary side
The TV is not turned off on the primary side.

But they don`t have circuit breakers.

Added after 1 [minute]:

But they have stand-by switches, but they are not used. Too frequent use wears them down.

Such an installation is a SELV installation.
Show the regulation requiring the installation of a switch for the SELV source.

retrofood wrote:

But they don`t have circuit breakers.

They have dedicated circuits separate circuit breakers . There is no dedicated circuit here.
Still no one has provided a regulation or technical justification for the need for a switch on the 230V side.

CYRUS2 wrote:

retrofood wrote:

But they don`t have circuit breakers.

They have dedicated circuits separate circuit breakers . There is no dedicated circuit here.
Still no one has provided a regulation or technical justification for the need for a switch on the 230V side.

Do not mix. My post referred to the computer and TV.

CYRUS2 wrote:

Still no one has provided a regulation or technical justification for the need for a switch on the 230V side.

Calculate the current at a power of 200W.

Dear moderator.
Who at home powers a 200W LED from one switch.
If we have divided circuits, either separate power supplies or switches in the 12V circuit.
Turning on the capacitive load is not conducive to durability, at high currents you can use transistors (in a 12V circuit).

In my house, a 5 x 5W chandelier
Single lamps up to 12W.

LED strip 5m, approx. 15W.

Each circuit has a separate switch.

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

Dear moderator.
Who at home powers a 200W LED from one switch.

And who wrote in the first post:

Quote:

I thought that I would install one power supply common for two ceilings in the switchboard

I feel like it`s not me.
Especially since my discussion with Col. CYRUS2 concerns a slightly different issue.

That is, two ceilings and two switches in a 12V circuit.

But there is still no answer to the question whether the power supply should be turned off at 230V or whether the power supply can be turned off in the 12V circuit. What the regulations say.

In the case of a smart home, the relays turn on the load on the contacts (voltage before or after the power supply) and the switches give a logical signal, not at the 230V level.

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

But there is still no answer to the question whether the power supply should be turned off at 230V or whether the power supply should be turned off in the 12V circuit.

Technically, it doesn`t matter. However, there are power supplies (converters) that cannot work without a load on the secondary side. This disqualifies them from being used when the connector is on the secondary side.

Second thing; as we know, for the same power, higher currents flow in circuits with lower voltage. When installing the power supply in a switchboard, this means the need to use larger cable cross-sections.

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

In the case of a smart home, the relays turn on the load on the contacts /voltage before or after the power supply/ and the switches give a logical signal, not at the 230V level

Not necessarily.

Hello friends, I`m sorry I didn`t respond earlier, but I had a sudden, urgent trip and no Internet access. I`m giving you some data, so on the living room ceiling there are about 15-20 mb of tape, on the living room wall 15 mb and on the kitchen ceiling 10 mb of tape, unfortunately I don`t know what type of LED and how many watts (the forum is Polish-language, so the measurements are too). I was thinking about using one power supply in the switchboard and there will be two switches, one in the kitchen and one two-key switch in the living room, to switch on the ceiling and wall separately. Switches from the Opel frame system. That`s all I know at the moment. Can I do this or do I have to control the switches of 3 independent power supplies in the switchboard?

Maybe someone with theoretical and practical knowledge will compare the durability of a flush-mounted switch
230V/10A when switching on a 60W switching power supply on the primary and secondary sides?

retrofood wrote:

Especially since my discussion with Col. CYRUS2 concerns a slightly different issue.

Correct.

Zbigniew 400 wrote:

Maybe someone with theoretical and practical knowledge will compare the durability of a flush-mounted switch
230V/10A when switching on a 60W switching power supply on the primary and secondary sides?

This question is only for the manufacturer - the power supply and the switch.
It`s not as simple as you think.
The 12V power supply behaves "nasty" when connected to 230V. .
There are Inrush relays with contacts specifically for higher switching currents.

wecia91 wrote:

Hello friends, I`m sorry I didn`t respond earlier, but I had a sudden, urgent trip and no Internet access. I`m giving you some data, so on the living room ceiling there are about 15-20 mb of tape, on the living room wall 15 mb and on the kitchen ceiling 10 mb of tape, unfortunately I don`t know what type of LED and how many watts (the forum is Polish-language, so the measurements are too). I was thinking about using one power supply in the switchboard and there will be two switches, one in the kitchen and one two-key switch in the living room, to switch on the ceiling and wall separately. Switches from the Opel frame system. That`s all I know at the moment. Can I do this or do I have to control the switches of 3 independent power supplies in the switchboard?

Buddy, you need to know exactly what the target strips will be, this is the basis for properly preparing the installation for this lighting. Currently, white 5050 LEDs are often installed, approximately 4.8W/1m = 96W at 20 meters. It is also possible that the customer will want RGB strips, for the same section it will be 14.4W x20 = 288W. However, in this situation there will be a different connection method - the power supply/power supplies will be permanently connected to 230V, the controller will be responsible for on/off, dimming, etc. .so there will be no problem with the life of the switches discussed here.
Personally, when power supplies must be placed in the switchboard, I use 24V tapes, and Meanwell din rail power supplies with the possibility of adjusting the output voltage. I try to minimize the possibility of subsequent problems with voltage drops, uniform light distribution, and heating of the tape elements (appropriate number of connection points for longer sections)
Most manufacturers, e.g. of twilight/motion sensors, specify the maximum contact load, here is an example:

and they certainly inform whether LED sources can be connected.

http://www.fif.com.pl/pub/File/download/INSTR...0ruchu/elFF%20DR-04%20inst%20D141120%20PL.pdf

I am curious whether the parameters shown above are also available in the descriptions of electrical equipment manufacturers.

This 150W is theoretical, powering the 20W power supply from the detector results in sticking of the contacts in the detector after 2 years. I always use an intermediate relay /R 15/.

You may be right, but on the other hand, what is wrong is that they provide values that have nothing to do with reality - on the discussed detector I have about 60W of "mesh" on the LEDs - I prefer to play it safe, so I limited it to a level below half the power they declare - in this case At the moment it works for about a year.