Reviving 4Ah Gel Battery with 13V Single Charge and LM350 Power Supply Usage

WędkarzStoLica wrote:

How do you explain a twice discharged battery to zero ...

How do you explain it? It's a normal Miracle!!!
And the explanation of this miracle can be expected from you, because you are the one who observed it!
If you are sure of success, why don't you start battery reconditioning services? And give maybe some more warranty (not 3 years, but even half a year)?

matusp37 wrote:

question is whether I can try to charge it with a single-voltage lead by giving it a voltage of about 13 volts only that it draws me almost 2A while doing so and I'm afraid that it will quite run out of life

This is not to charge it with a current of 2A only fat less - any slight hope of launching exists.

Thank you very much for your advice for the time being I do not have a smaller trafo unless you can use the power supply from the screwdriver battery charger is it has 14.5W 450mA and is for 14V batteries

Switch a car bulb in series with the battery, it will limit the charging current. You'll lose time, it's not sure you'll save the battery (you won't regain the former efficiency) and a new one costs 30zl.

That's what I did but still the charging current is about 2A I used a 60/55W dual filament bulb

matusp37 wrote:

This is what I did but still the charging current is about 2A I used a 60/55W dual filament bulb

Well, use a 5W/12V bulb.

WędkarzStoLica wrote:

Rzuuf wrote:

If the voltage of a 12-volt battery drops below 10.8V, you can basically say goodbye to it.

Don't write such nonsense because someone else will believe it and throw away a working battery. How do you explain a twice discharged battery to zero, it's been 3 years and it's still fine.

I would specify - if the voltage as a result of self-discharge has dropped so much, then it is absolute scrap (sulfated to amen). If it has been discharged (but certainly not to zero, after disconnecting the electrical load even a completely discharged battery has a little V), for example: by leaving the lights on and is recharged immediately after noticing the fault then there is still a chance that it will work a little (it will not have time to sulfurize).

And why can't you salvage a sulfurized to amen? To make it work you would have to desulfurize it. The rate at which lead sulfate dissolves is such that you'd probably have to pulse-charge it baaaavery long for a reasonable amount of sulfate to dissolve, and the lead and sulfur to return to their "proper places." The problem is that by the time this is done, there will be mechanical degradation of the plates (sinking of the active mass - I don't know to what extent gel ones have a problem with this - and deformation of the working surfaces in the individual cells). And this is no longer bypassable by electrical and chemical methods.

As he drew 2 A is a good sign(he has for life) but do not charge with such a high current. Gel batteries are charged with a current of 1/10C which in your case is 0.4 A. When discharging the battery below 10.5V, the current needs to be limited even more.

helmud7543 wrote:

I would specify - if the voltage as a result of self-discharge has dropped so much, then it is absolute scrap (sulfated to amen).

I don't know such a term I once charged a car battery that after scrapping stood three years unused voltage dropped to 5 volts. The battery plates are porous to have maximum surface area and thus as much capacity as possible during sulfation. Lead sulfate causes disruption of the structure of the plates( precipitation of active mass) Desulfation itself does not damage the battery as much as sulfation if it is properly carried out.

In my opinion, a waste of time, health and money. With the price of a new one around 50 zloty, it makes no sense to try to regenerate it.

So I did and it works at the output I have a current draw of 300mA. However, the battery came to life finally the scooter burns from the starter and not from the kickstand

And at the least expected moment it will fail. Then as it will be needed.

matusp37 wrote:

at the output I have a current draw of 300mA.

While the engine is running? Or at a standstill?

WędkarzStoLica wrote:

Rzuuf wrote:
If the voltage of a 12-volt battery drops below 10.8V, you can basically say goodbye to it.
Don't write such nonsense because someone else will believe it and throw away a working battery.

This is not nonsense but theory

WędkarzStoLica wrote:

How do you explain a twice discharged battery to zero, 3 years have passed and it is still fine.

This is practice.

Rzuuf wrote:

And the explanation of this miracle is expected from you, because you are the one who observed it!

I will try according to my knowledge and practice somewhere I saw a graph of the life of a given battery when discharging 20% the life was 80%. And at 80% discharge the life was 20%. At stronger discharges of 100% of the battery capacity( voltage 11.8V without load) the amount of additional energy gained is not great and the battery consumption is not comparatively greater. With even greater discharges, the non-proportional consumption of the battery is even greater after one such cycle is lost several normal cycles.

''1. Charged battery
A fully charged battery on the negative electrode side (–) contains lead (Pb) in the plates, and on the
positive electrode side (+)contains lead dioxide (PbO2) in the plates. The electrolyte is a solution of
sulfuric acid (H2SO4) and water (H2O) in a ratio of 37:63.
2. Discharging the battery
When the receiver is connected, electrons in the external circuit flow from the anode (Pb) to the cathode
(PbO2). These electrons come from the reaction of lead with SO4 ions
2– from the solution. Lead releases two electrons
(they are the current carriers in the external circuit) and forms the compound PbSO4 Whereas
the electrons flowing from the external circuit to the cathode of PbO2 cause two reactions: one, is
the detachment of oxygen ions from PbO2 and the formation, together with electrons and H+ ions from the solution – molecules of
water, and the other, is the reaction of lead with SO4 ions giving again PbSO4 As a result, on both electrodes
the same compound PbSO4 2 is formed
During the operation of the battery in the solution, SO4 ions are lost and more and more water molecules are formed.
The solution is diluted, and the same compound PbSO4 is formed on both electrodes.
3. Completely discharged battery
The lead sulfate (PbSO4) that is lost from the solution crystallizes and deposits on both electrodes increasingly
thick layer, and there is an increasing percentage of water in the electrolyte. When the battery is
completely discharged several times, then the lead sulfate forms a layer thick enough to act as an insulator.
The battery loses its properties, reduces its capacity, as a result of which it is destroyed''

When discharging/charging the plates work mechanically( lead sulfate has a larger volume than lead and lead dioxide) after each cycle not a large part of the mass of the plates falls to the bottom. Thick lead crystals dissolve only at a voltage much higher than the buffer voltage (2.4V for the purposes is sufficient) and a small charging current in order not to damage the plates. The battery can be discharged to zero and desulfurized any number of times the only delimitation is the mechanical wear resistance of the plates to which only remelting in a smelter will help.

Rzuuf wrote:

Acid battery (and a gel battery is also acid) has a self-discharge of about 1% per day, so not used / not charged for 3 months is already "empty" and succumbs to sulfation.

This is patently untrue. It is worth reading something before you write something:


The excellent Kobe Guidebook I downloaded years ago
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic866493-300.html#8775117
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/download.php?id=416020


Page 16 of the study (or page 20 of the pdf - as you prefer), Figure 13 shows a graph showing the self-discharge of an example battery as a function of time.
As you can see, a battery stored in average conditions, i.e. temp. of 20 degC. loses 20% of its charge after 6 months, and in this period you can only think about the need to recharge.
It should be noted that the storage time depends on the temp. The colder it is, the lower the rate of response and slower self-discharge. A battery stored in a cold basement of 5 stC will lose 20% of its charge after 18 months!
The next page, or table 4.
A battery stored at temps below 20 stC will, in practice, be sufficient to recharge once every 12 months. So you can put the theory between fairy tales, after 3 months of non-use the battery is "empty".

From the instructions for AGM batteries, the chart states at 25 degC the battery can stand 17 months but they still recommend recharging after 4. .

^ToM^ wrote:

It's worth reading something before writing something

- I'm of that opinion too!

Here is a valuable article n/t self-discharge batteries lead-acid (and therefore also AGM or gel):
http://www.gelcoservices.com.au/docs/Lead%20Acid%20Battery%20Self-Discharge%20Paper.pdf , and there, among other things. "stands like a bull:
"New batteries with lead-antimony grids lose about 1% of charge per day at 25°C , but the charge loss increases by a factor of 2 to 5 as the battery ages ." I am of the opinion that, not knowing the secrets of the technology of an unknown Chinese manufacturer (and it could be a "fake" Varta, Bosch or other well-known manufacturer), we should be skeptics about the metrics rather than enthusiasts. I think that "5% per month" is more "fabulous" than 1% per day, and the last words of the quote mean that you can even expect 2 .... 5 times faster discharge as the battery ages (so even 5% per day!).

rafbid wrote:

at 25 degC the battery can stand 17 months but

Where do you find such fairy tales ?
She may be 10 years old, but so what if after 3 months she has almost zero ?
It is clearly written in more than one study, as well as in some manuals, that the battery loses about 1% of capacity per day.

Battery discharge is a matter of each individual piece and ambient variables.

Freddy wrote:

Where do you find such tales ?

Even wikipedia states a self-discharge of 3-20% per month.

Freddy wrote:

After 3 months it has almost zero ?

Once in late July/early August I checked the self-discharge of an ordinary calcium car battery the voltage sat at 0.01 V every three days. Manufacturer's data
12.44 V 50%
12.52 V 60%
12.60 V 70%
12.77 V 90% after a month the voltage would sit down by 0.1 V which corresponds to 12.5% /30 days =0.416% During the warmest period of the year. AGM I have never checked

But when recharging applies the rule of 1% per day.

rafbid wrote:

During the warmest time of the year.

Will self-discharge be slower in winter?

WędkarzStoLica wrote:

In winter there will be slower self-discharge?

It depends on where it is stored this was mounted in the car, and self-discharge depends on the temperature.

rafbid wrote:

Even wikipedia reports a self-discharge of 3-20% per month

Wikipedia is no reliable source.

Freddy wrote:

rafbid wrote:

Even wikipedia gives a self-discharge of 3-20% per month

Wikipedia is no reliable source.

In part it is because there are sources listed at the very bottom of what was taken from where.

Krnlmgr wrote:

In part it is because there are sources given at the very bottom of what was taken from where.

Have you ever verified this, because I did and got burned.
In the wiki was something different, and in the sources given something different.

Everyone has the right to edit the content of Wikipedia, so it is no credibility.