Portable Air Conditioner in '79 Apartment Block: Dealing with Gravity Ventilation Backdraft

Hello, I just bought a portable air conditioner for an apartment in a block of flats ('79).
Unfortunately, there was a back draft in the gravity ventilation, as I understand it, the air is being sucked in because there is a lower temperature in my apartment. Unfortunately, unsealing the windows and even opening one (although this misses the purpose of cooling the apartment, since I have to give a warm inflow from the outside) does not solve the problem and unfortunately my apartment is sucked in smells from neighbors from the riser ...

Is it normal ? How can I fix it?

Because, as I have managed to briefly realize, there are standards for the thrust of gravity ventilation in residential buildings, I have the impression that they are not met since any air conditioner and air cooled by 2-3 degrees (difference) can cause a reverse thrust ... and here's the question of how to fight with a cooperative that will probably want to put me down a tree with this problem ...?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

It is not the fault of the cooled air, but the way the portable air conditioner works. This air conditioner expels warm air through a pipe to the outside of the room. In this way, a negative pressure is created in the apartment, which sucks in the air through all accessible paths.

Well, actually, I did not think about it ...
- so all users of this type of climate have similar problems?

pctelekom wrote:

Well, actually, I did not think about it ...

A simple way, but not entirely legal - direct the air conditioner's exhaust pipe to the gravity ventilation duct.
If you do not disturb the ventilation of other neighbors, it will pass.
http://forum.gazeta.pl/forum/w,523,134772321,...,Klimatyzacja_a_wentylacja_grawitacyjna_.html

Hmm ... an illegal method and at the same time not solving the problem, because anyway, there will be a negative pressure in the apartment, so it will either suck in warm air through the window / window ventilators, or from the bathroom ventilation riser ...
Sucks this solution with a portable ... :(

I wonder what if I put the entire air conditioner on the balcony and led a pipe to the apartment from the (cool) outlet - will it cool efficiently? Because air will be taken for cooling from the environment (now 31st) and not from the apartment (25st)

Yes. These air conditioners are a marketing hoax. The cooling effect for the average room temperature is almost zero, and may be negative for adjacent rooms when hot outside air drawn by the pseudo air conditioner flows through them.
Ps. The idea of tangled pipes is an impossible attempt to make a monoblock splice.
See how window air conditioners are built.

pctelekom wrote:

so it will either suck in warm air through window / window diffusers or from the bathroom ventilation riser ...

You did not know before buying that since it throws warm air outside, the air must flow into the room from somewhere?

pctelekom wrote:

I wonder what if I put the entire air conditioner on the balcony and led a pipe to the apartment from the (cool) outlet - will it cool efficiently

You have to test, the cooling capacity will undoubtedly drop during the day, while at night the air that is sucked into the air conditioner will have a lower temperature than in the apartment :)

Added after 3 [minutes]:

jack63 wrote:

Ps. The idea of tangled pipes is an impossible attempt to make a monoblock splice.

With what tangle? When placing the air conditioner on the balcony, one pipe introducing air into the room is enough.

To tell you the truth ... I didn't think about it ;)

I made a sealed window made of chambered polycarbonate, with a hole for the outlet pipe (not any flange) and it came out ...
Well, I will try to reverse this system, as I mentioned, putting the box on the other side of the window, on the balcony, and lead the cold outlet through the culvert in the window ... so now I will have overpressure in the apartment ;)

In total, as I look, there are solutions (monoblocks) with two pipes (one sucks in, the other lets out) that lead outside, so probably it should not be so bad with the efficiency, but the thermostat (i.e. this regulator on the device) will become useless...

Edit: And I did !!!
I don't know anything about it, but now it cools a lot better ... and it is much quieter, besides, there is a flow of fresh air. I am only curious how such a system will translate into the life of the air conditioner. Tomorrow I will make a sun protection (because I will be given to the balcony for a few hours) and I think it will stay that way until the heat ends.

pctelekom wrote:

I am only curious how such a system will translate into the life of the air conditioner.

Write in September if it still works

pctelekom wrote:

but the thermostat (i.e. this regulator on the device) will become useless ...

After the warranty is over, you can try to move the thermostat sensor inside, if it wants to work on a long cable. Write what model of air conditioner you have.

If you think about it, I don't see any reasons why it should break down anyway. The balcony is on the eastern side, but the sun starts operating on the air conditioner around 10-11 am and it only lasts 1.5 hours. It is white, it does not heat up. Anyway, it's not hot all the time, when it gets colder, I can just unscrew the pipe, close the window and take the air conditioner home.

It's a good idea with this sensor ratio ;)

Someone wrote here about an inverter system ... unfortunately I have a balcony room arranged in such a way that installation is impossible without disfiguring the premises, hence the choice of any monoblock.

The model is a noname, the PAC 2600 S - with the exhaust at the top so it was easier for me to bring back cooled air (shorter duct).

In any case, thank you for solving my, as it turned out, trivial problem

vodiczka wrote:

jack63 wrote:


Ps. The idea of tangled pipes is an impossible attempt to make a monoblock splice.


With what tangle? When placing the air conditioner on the balcony, one pipe introducing air into the room is enough.

In this system, the air conditioner draws in hot outside air, cools it a little and forces (how will it manage?) Into the room. It is a bit better, because hot outside air is not sucked into the room, but we are breaking the building law regarding ventilation because we have poor, but still, mechanical ventilation in a building with gravity ventilation!
It is best if the air conditioner sucks in air from the room (preferably upwards from one end) and pushes the cooled air back (preferably upwards elsewhere).
Most portable (transportable because heavy) air conditioners have cold air outlets through the blades at the top of the housing. There is no adaptation for pipe mounting!
With the air sucked into the evaporator (cooler) it is even worse in the sense of "collecting it in a pipe."
According to totally sneezes me. A typical fake for the poor that they supposedly have "air conditioning", and in fact they have a big G ... So what they can do.

There are air conditioners adapted to work outdoors and there are those that have the option of connecting a pipe to the cold air outlet. Of course, no pipe connection is provided for the cold air intake, but this can be dealt with.

My air conditioner is Fral FSC14SC, I converted it so that I got the solution described by jack63.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Elp9BievSA

The cost is not large, you need to spend one or two days, everything that is needed for this can be purchased at a construction hypermarket. In my opinion, most air conditioners can be converted in this way, only most of them need to be made with two boxes, including the air inlet and outlet. Elements for ventilation and chimney systems can be used as connections and pipes.

jack63 wrote:

According to totally sneezes me. A typical fake for the poor that they supposedly have "air conditioning", and in fact they have a big G ... So what they can do.

Did the Now Bogacki speak up?
If you can afford it, do splits and do not offend others. If someone wants to cool down all summer, split makes sense, if you only want to protect against the greatest heat (above 28 degrees) that last for several days a year, this solution is justified.

andrzejlisek wrote:

My air conditioner is Fral FSC14SC, I converted it so that I got the solution described by jack63.

I watched this video and I don't like the solution very much. The air inlet and air outlet are close together, in addition, the cold air inlet into the room is too low. You have a pillow of hot air under the ceiling, when a guest with the height of a basketball player visits you, he will probably not approve

vodiczka wrote:

andrzejlisek wrote:

My air conditioner is Fral FSC14SC, I converted it so that I got the solution described by jack63.

I watched this video and I don't like the solution very much. The air inlet and air outlet are close together, moreover, the cold air intake into the room is too low. You have a pillow of hot air under the ceiling, when a guest with the height of a basketball player visits you, he will probably not approve

This agrees as warm air rises. I implemented this solution this year. There was one detail that I did not pay attention to when recording this film, but the cold air outlet is generally directed upwards. The idea was also to keep the pipes outside as short as possible, so that they did not get warm from the sun, but without sharp bends.

So I will say at the end, because I have perfected my solution ;)

To sum up, I put the monoblock on the balcony, I led the cold air pipe through the window (chambered polycarbonate glass) into the room.
At the inlet of the filter and at the outlet of the compressor, I installed guides so that the hot air from the compressor and the air on the inlet filter do not curl up and mix (the outlet and inlet are now facing opposite directions - such a simple thermal insulation).
The solution from the above video, i.e. the return of air from the room, cooling and re-pumping into the room, in my opinion, is disadvantageous because a closed circuit is created and the atmosphere becomes poor in oxygen, and the air in the apartment becomes drier with each circulation.
In my case, the cold air forced into the apartment causes a (proven) slight overpressure, so I can unseal the windows in other rooms, which results in better air circulation - the overpressure causes the warmer air to be pushed out in the other rooms, also by gravity ventilation.
I measured the temperature on the pipe with a probe in the apartment - 10.8 degrees at the external 25 degrees, so it's probably not bad ...
And by the way, solved the problem with condensate - they travel through the pipe outside the balcony ... Tomorrow is a key test, because> 32 degrees is to be again ...

- I will add that placing such a brick in the apartment is unbearable in the long run when it comes to noise ... you cannot hear your own thoughts
the generator I have reportedly gives

pctelekom wrote:

The solution from the above video, i.e. the return of air from the room, cooling and re-pumping into the room, in my opinion, is disadvantageous because a closed circuit is created and the atmosphere becomes poor in oxygen, and the air in the apartment becomes drier with each circulation.

That's correct. However, all splits are closed-loop. In such a solution there is the greatest efficiency of operation.

splits work in a closed circuit, because it is not possible to supply them with air from the outside directly to the radiator - as they say, each stick has two ends ;)

by the way, today's measurements:
suction temperature 31.4 / outlet 12.3

pctelekom wrote:

by the way, today's measurements:
suction temperature 31.4 / outlet 12.3

What is this supposed to be?
It is simply that the air flow through the steam generator is too small due to the resistance, and above all due to the low compression of the fan not adapted to work in such a system.
Low temperature at the outlet of the evaporator does not mean high cooling capacity. On the contrary.

It proves no more or less that putting the generator on the balcony did not cause a significant drop in efficiency, as if the generator was to stand in the apartment and make noise at the same time.