Controlling Engine Speed with ABB ACS 355 Inverter and Encoder Rotation Speed

Hello
Is it possible to control the engine speed depending on how fast the encoder rotates? ABB ACS 355 inverter.

More or less ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF9x9ES-ruY

Start / Stop asked from the button but that's not a problem anymore.

engine like on film - No. Asynchronous motor - almost no, and permanent magnet motor - rather, yes. After giving more details, you can refine the answer

From the movie it was about the principle of operation What specific information do you need?
- IMG 60B-300-ABN-PT-SFA encoder
- ACS 355-03E-04A1-4
-Siemens engine 1la7090-6aa10-z
Could you explain why, asynchronous, almost not with magnets?

an asynchronous motor is not able to "hold" as accurately as a synchronous motor (with a permanent magnet), therefore it is not suitable for precisely following the encoder as you can see on the video. and no longer mentioning the higher speeds. One could be tempted to change the velocity of an asynchronous motor on foot depending on the speed of the encoder, but this will not be the same effect as on the synchro engine.

I understand. However, it has to regulate the speed of the conveyor depending on how other tapes are spinning so accuracy is not very much needed. Not me, however, would like to do it on asynchronous and see what effect it will have. Mainly I was concerned about the inverter's ability or is able to propose something and how to do it ...

only I do not know if I understood you well. Because in addition to this inverter, you need a controller. I understood whether this inverter can support simple synchronizations of the so-called axles - the answer is yes but both axes (axis 1 - the encoder is attached to the previous tasmociag and axis 2 motor controlled from this ABB must be foamed in some driver which will be "pseudo" synchronized or if you use a servo engine it is not even pseudo a normal. The inverter itself is unlikely

Well, the point is that without a PLC. It is to be budget The engine itself is start / stop with the back-up button and the AB pulses from the encoder are to set the speed of the motor. Just like it looks on the video. The encoder is spinning, the engine is spinning. The encoder accelerates, the motor accelerates.

it's so easy to get , this type of control requires motion controller. And this is not budget. This is a standard electronic gear system. with 1: 1 gear. Some say that it has 1.5 axes because it has only an encoder on the input and the motor as the second axis. Budgetally, I saw something like that in Mitsubishi, but it will not be as cheap as ABB itself

This is not good ... It was supposed to be such an ali "potentiometer" from the encoder for the engine It looks like you will need to fly through the PLC: /

Added after 2 [hours] 4 [minutes]:

In the inverter manual I found something like this: DI5 also used as PNP or NPN 12 ... 24 VDC frequency input Internal or external power supply and setpoint can be given by frequency input. As the source of external setpoint, frequency input can be used (0 ... 16000 Hz). Recording time for frequency input
is 50 ms. The update time is shorter when the information is transferred to the application program (50 ms -> 2 ms).

Problem solved. The digital input of the DI5 inverter is programmable and can be set as a frequency input. Then the method of setting the speed must be set at DI5, then it determines the frequency depending on the number of pulses from the encoder. The regulation is quite big because from 0 to 16,000 Hz.

and how does it work in practice?
He connected a friend?

For now, it is dry connected without a motor. I had to change the encoder to push-pull in order to receive on the channel A a voltage proportional to the input voltage, ie 24VDC, because the DI5 input supports 12-24 VDc. Start with the button on DI1, Encoder on the drill. After switching on, there were problems with setting the stable Hz, because the encoder very vigilantly acted on the rotation of the drill. The gentle rotation of the drill caused a jump at 50 Hz. This is because the DI5 input range was set from 0 to 800 Hz with a 2048 encoder so it was right. I put him on the eye from 0 to 8000 Hz and it was already ok. Drill to the max and speed around 30 Hz. Of course, now it's time to play on parameterization and how to calculate it. Although I already know at least that there is such a possibility After finishing, I will post a movie as it presents itself.

I saw the movie and I do not quite agree that it can not be realized on an asynchronous motor. In practice, every day I deal with this type of application, namely the electronic encoder in the form of an encoder gives signals to the module of high-speed counters, and from the analogue output of PLC the signal enters the analogue input of the inverter as a reference of speed. But that's another issue, without a PLC it would also be able to do as it was written above with this frequency input (if the inverter has such a function).

The thing, however, is the appropriate control of the asynchronous motor by the inverter. Ordinary vector control will definitely not work in the case of high load (eg keeping the eccentric press in the preset position - I am talking about it from my own autopsy), eg DTC with ABB (eg ACS800) is required. I have tried with the usual vector control for this application and without access to advanced functions of the regulator there is no chance for the correct operation of such a system (and access to these functions does not guarantee success). Of course, we're talking about sensorless control, without an encoder on the motor shaft. Certainly, the accuracy of the regulation is not ideal in this case, but in some applications a normal induction motor has a chance to check.

In the conveyor belt application, I think that the above oleksy19 solution should (theoretically) be checked.

My friend Merka, do you want to say that what can be seen on the video can be done on an asynchronous motor?

Theoretically, it is possible to apply the correspondingly fast braking and acceleration ramps (and you will need an appropriate power inverter, surely it should be enough with a power equal to the motor) and of course, the engine without load (as on the video). Otherwise (engine load), the effect will depend on the type of this load, but probably such dynamics can not be obtained (in relation to the unloaded engine). It all depends on the planned speed of work, on whether the inverter is oversized, etc.

"theoretically it is possible" ..... and practically?

I practically did not have the opportunity to play such things maybe the author will say how it works?

Hello,
What we see on the video is the positioning mode using the drive or the stepper motor. As for the ACS355 it is a frequency converter (without the possibility of working in positioning mode), which has the ability to control impulse. This is a typical application for synchronizing conveyors without using an additional PLC.

Description from the manual:
Frequency input
Digital input DI5 can be programmed as a frequency input.
The input frequency (0 ... 16000 Hz) can be used as an external reference signal source. The acti- cation time for the frequency input is 50 ms. The update time is shorter when the information is transferred to the application program (50 ms -> 2 ms).