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The bulbs "shoot" when the light in the room is turned off with the sw

artin.bruyen 9285 15
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 16190579
    artin.bruyen
    Level 17  
    I have a lamp on the ceiling for 4 E27 bulbs. I have a double switch by the door. Bulbs are connected 2x2, i.e. two ba one switch. I have such a strange problem.
    Sometimes when turning off the lights. No matter which light bulbs, the bulbs actually explode. It makes a flash like a strobe, a bang like a firecracker. The bulb is intact. For once it happened that the bubble burst. It strikes an S immediately in the box, and once even knocks out all 3 in front of the counter, the main ones that are connected together into 3 phases.
    I usually have light bulbs because I am worried about leds. I had a LED bedside lamp turned on once and it was a hell of a shit with this incident. Today, when disconnecting the electric heater from the electric strip, the same happened. But I suspect that it has nothing to do with it.
    I recently took off the lamp to clean it. The contacts in the frames are ok. I have read it prophylactically with fine dirt paper. The switch also looks ok.
    Csrgo could be the reason? This has never happened before with the same connection. It has been happening notoriously for 2 years.
    Thanks in advance for the hints.
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  • #2 16190588
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    The matter is quite serious, because there is a probability of a break in the N line of the installation.
    Perform a check, including the measurement of the fault loop impedance.
  • #3 16190593
    artin.bruyen
    Level 17  
    So that's it. It is all the more strange that it only happens in my room, and I have the entire level connected to the same S.
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  • #4 16194442
    TWK
    Electrician specialist
    What is the manufacturer of these bulbs?
  • #5 16194447
    artin.bruyen
    Level 17  
    I changed producers with dirt. Maybe I already had 3 companies. I changed because I thought the bulbs were of bad quality.
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  • #6 16194448
    TWK
    Electrician specialist
    Are they still producers from across the eastern border or, for example, Osram?
  • #7 16194457
    artin.bruyen
    Level 17  
    I don't remember to be honest. :( do you think it may be the fault of these bulbs?
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  • #8 16194480
    TWK
    Electrician specialist
    Measurement of the short circuit loop impedance and voltage on the light bulbs under load will allow you to diagnose a possible fault in the installation. In the case of a three-phase installation, there is a risk of a failure described by the col. Elpapiotr and damage to other receivers (and even electric shock or fire). Especially that the burnout of the light bulbs (possibly related to the voltage increase) occurs when turning off other receivers. However, such a test can only be performed on site by an electrician with the appropriate measuring instruments, it cannot be done remotely. The matter is urgent, until then I will be able to disconnect the other receivers from the installation.

    On the other hand, my experience shows that some manufacturers' bulbs (from the eastern direction, regardless of the country) tend to burn out after 2 weeks and to effects also related to the bubble explosion. Bulbs from reputable manufacturers (eg the aforementioned Osram) cost a bit more, they have a halogen bulb embedded in the bulb and in my opinion they are much more durable and do not "explode".
  • #9 16197424
    Tuning Marek
    Level 21  
    Hello, of course, that loose "N" and when the load or its removal increases the voltage from other receivers supplied from the 3-phase switchgear, that is, they get too high voltage, look up to the farthest available terminal "N".
  • #10 16197432
    artin.bruyen
    Level 17  
    In that case, I will check carefully all the connections in cans, etc. I will add that this happens every 1-3 months. But it's still too much. Compared to the fact that nothing like this had happened before.
  • #11 16197461
    Hajna
    Level 24  
    There is no need to check in boxes only in the circuit board where there are fuses for individual circuits. But two years it would have to be something to grill (burn out).
  • #12 16197556
    ledioda
    Level 15  
    If you remove any errors in the installation and the problem with the bulbs does not disappear, you need to replace the wall switch with which you turn the bulbs on and off.
    There are very poor quality switches available on the market and there is a strong sparking when switching off, which has known consequences.
    A similar situation may occur with a badly worn circuit breaker.
    If you replace the bulbs with halogen ones, the sparking could be even more intensified.
  • #13 16197657
    gogi20
    Level 24  
    Everything may point to N / PEN problems, but for just about two years now, all bulbs are of dire quality. I can see this in the company where I work, where unfortunately there are still many light bulbs. We do not buy Osram bulbs, of course. Now we want to replace everything with LEDs (maybe half is already here) - bulbs last up to two months (they shine for 2-6 hours a day). As you wrote, the bulbs shoot and cause overcurrent protection to work. And a curiosity ... in our case it is caused (after a quick analysis) "FOR A GOOD" SHORT-CIRCUIT LOOP! despite the old communist installation :)
    Added after 55 [minutes]:
    The effect is that when the "filaments" in the bulbs break and there is a short circuit loop at the level of eg 500A to the socket and such a filament falls on the lead wires, the overcurrent protection 10A is activated. With a short-circuit loop, e.g. 100A, tripping of the overcurrent protection is less likely. From experience about 4 years ago such situations were rare. It is everyday life now. The "EU bulbs" are also causing much more short circuits on the stems. In the company I work for, there are several thousand light sources, a few transformer stations, a few buildings, so it's not like that all the N / PENs loosened right away. Such a crap just appeared at some point and the short circuit loop is of colossal importance in the operation of security, even in the event of a stupid bulb burnout. The same is of great importance in the case of switching overvoltages - which we have experienced more than once.
  • #14 16197834
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Buddy, the short circuit loop has nothing to do with it, because the reason it works is the quality of what you call a light bulb.

    From what you write about "too good short circuit loop" it appears that designers are doing a mole job trying to make the short circuit loop as low as possible. Because only then does it guarantee the fulfillment of the SWZ condition in circuits of a considerable length and in circuits with protection of a greater value or with higher characteristics.
    And that's why your analysis is not holding up, because it suggests that security can be compromised so that the blows that burn through do not cause the security to work.

    If you wrote that the voltage is too high, okay, but do not mix the short circuit loop with it.

    By the way, the short circuit loop impedance value is given in ohms, not in amps. Amperes are short circuit current.
  • #15 16197869
    gogi20
    Level 24  
    Yes, the fault loop is given in ohms. I am dealing with the current state, i.e. the projects were created 30 years ago and the transformer stations are up to 50m from the buildings. It is good that the conditions of the SWZ are met. I just note that a few years ago there was no such problem with light bulbs and now it is, so I am going to replace all of them with other light sources as soon as possible.
    There are no too high voltages. We have a network parameters analyzer at the connection with the highest ordered power and never (even for a minute) the voltage on the phase does not reach 230V. Intervention of protections is a direct result of too "good" fault loop. The wire / cable impedances are simply too low to "dampen" short circuits.
  • #16 16197882
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Quote:
    ... a few years ago there was no such problem with light bulbs ...
    And stick to that. Because they used to be light bulbs, and today it is a bulb-like product.
    So do not blame the short circuit loop for what is happening (surely its value does not decrease with time) because such a diagnosis is heresy.
    And the protection is just to work if a faulty receiver causes a short circuit.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around a user experiencing issues with E27 bulbs in a ceiling lamp, where the bulbs "shoot" or explode when the lights are turned off. This phenomenon is linked to potential electrical faults, particularly a break in the neutral (N) line, which can cause voltage spikes when other devices are switched off. Participants suggest measuring the fault loop impedance and checking connections to diagnose the problem. The user has tried bulbs from various manufacturers, suspecting quality issues, and mentions that the problem occurs every 1-3 months. Recommendations include inspecting the wall switch for poor quality and considering the replacement of bulbs with more reliable brands like Osram. The conversation highlights the risks of using low-quality bulbs and the importance of proper electrical installation to prevent damage and ensure safety.
Summary generated by the language model.
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