Cable Cross-Section for 16A Long-Term Load: Choosing between 3x1.5mm² and 3x2.5mm² for sockets

Hello

I have a 16A + 2 x 8A differential in the garage - one for lighting, one for sockets.
I have to change it so that there are 16A on the sockets. So the 20 A + 16A differential for the + 8 socket will remain old for the lighting.

The wires used are 3x1.5. Is it enough for a long-term load of 16A?
The car's batteries will be charged from the sockets - a 16A charger (of course electronic, so there will be no jumps from zero to 16). Are the 3x1.5 cables enough? Should I change them to 3x2.5? I am not sure what cable goes from the meter.

They will do. For 3x1.5, the maximum allowed is 16A

Moderated By retrofood:

I can easily prove you wrong. Warning. Item 3.1.11 of the Regulations.

I am the son of an electrician but I do not know much beyond what I read - and what I read is difficult to adjust to the situation. The standard according to which it should be chosen is probably

PN-IEC 60364-5-523: 2003

But these tables range from 13 to 26A depending on how the installation is made. Method B - the lowest loads. DE way the greatest.
Therefore, I asked a question - replacing the wires with 3x2.5 is not a problem and judging by the above information it will be rather necessary. If the cable from the meters is 3x2.5, it is generally no problem to connect at least one socket with a 2-meter section of 3x2.5.
I would rather not burn the installation during a 6-hour charge.

Karwos00 wrote:

But these tables range from 13 to 26A depending on how the installation is made.

So what else does the soul want? You know what's going on, only you know how you want to arrange the installation ... what information are you still looking for? Okay, I'll pass it on. Well, the chain has the strength of the weakest link. Enough?

15kVmaciej wrote:

Excuse me, are they beating here?
Because I see, we have a one-actor theater. And the director at the same time. Perhaps it would be advisable to ask the author to complete the data first

You can just why do you beat foam then?

15kVmaciej wrote:

Personally, I suggest 2.5mm "and B16A cables. Inexpensive and maybe even a ban for such help.

I would also choose this solution instead of using alpine combinations. But well, people like to complicate their lives ...

I am not scheming, but I am asking how it should be.

Installation in a 230V, surface-mounted garage.

A 16A charger will be used to charge the 24kWh electric car battery.

If 3x2.5 cables are to be used, they will be installed. Did I mention somewhere that I want to combine ??

Karwos00 wrote:

I am not scheming, but I am asking how it should be.

After all, in post # 3 you wrote everything and then got the right and true answer. It can be 1.5mm? at times, but that depends on how the cables are routed and laid, which you know. And it should be fine.
Why then combine savings for the sum of two zlotys and sixty-five cents, when you can lay cables with a cross-section of 2.5 mm? and sleep well? You know about it, but you cunning, maybe one zloty will stay for me if I give it thinner ...

In post no. 3 I did not get an answer - these are only my assumptions - I can not read these tables - or otherwise - I do not know if I interpret it correctly.

Have I written somewhere that I regret some cables? If you have to buy a kilometer of this cable, I'll buy a kilometer.
I heard a few opinions - that it should be enough for these cables without a problem, but also that something may burn out over time.
Opinions not necessarily electricians - rather home-grown. That's why I wanted to ask a specialist here for advice on how it should be.
If 1.5 may be enough or maybe not, it means that I am replacing it with 2.5. Because "maybe" is not enough for me.
Thanks for the hint.

You want you got it. With such a load, a separate circuit for sure. Separate security. Three wires, enough new equipment that it definitely needs protection, so you have to lead L, N, PE. how and where, I do not know. I can't see your installation. It could be from the switchboard, as long as you have these three wires there or you have a PEN there. I'm wearing TN-C, of course. And 1.5 is not enough in this case. Because it is a reconstruction of the installation, the current standards and regulations already apply here.

I will add immediately. Perhaps your cables will stand up to the limit. It's a bit of sleeping on a bomb.

That's what I meant. Now there are 3 wires, but whether it is TN-C or TN-S (or CS) I can not determine. Maybe I'll find a sign somewhere.
But anyway, it would be appropriate to change to 2.5, 20A + 16A differential to the socket + electrician :)

I just ask - since I have residual current devices in my garage and apartment, can it be assumed that the system is TN-S. Is this protection incorrect in TN-C by any chance?

Currently, I added a third socket with a 16A fuse, the differential remained 16A. 3x2.5 cable (this also goes from the plug to the charger module. Behind the module there is something bigger.
1 charge - about 4 hours nothing knocked out, warm cables about 30 degrees C. With time, I will probably change the differential to 20-25A.

You do not specify the distance between the meter and these sockets.
Even a 2.5mm cable? it may be too weak - that is, it will withstand the current, but the voltage drop is quite large and you pay for these losses, and the charging time is significantly longer. By default, if the distance is above 15m, the cables for car chargers can be 4mm? distances. These current surges heat the cables quite well, and the connections should be well twisted, not to some quick connectors that burn quickly when working with a high frequency of pulses, and many companies recommend cables, not wires, for connecting such chargers, the cable works better on high frequencies of pulses (40-80kHz) which, despite the filters, still get into the power cables in large amounts.
If it is an original vehicle and a charger - read the recommendations for connecting to the electrical system. Overall, this connection is similar to induction hobs in the kitchen and has the same recommendations.

2m cable - from the "plug" to the socket - this is the only socket connected to this "fuse"
Level 2 EV Charger, Duosida 16A / 240V J1772 Plug:
Fast - 3.84kW of power (16A / 240V AC) makes charging speed 3 times as fast as Level 1
Outputs: 16Amps and 3.84kW at 208 - 240V AC

On the Corax meter I read the maximum consumption in the given billing period - 3560W. Unfortunately, it is not possible to read the consumption on a regular basis there.

The socket and plugs are twisted, but the pins of the plug are hot after unfastening.

I think it will be necessary to call an electrician - I do not know what Amperage is on the meter - everything is built and sealed = I do not know what wires go from the meter to the board = I suspect 3 x 2.5

Karwos00 wrote:

The socket and plugs are twisted, but the pins of the plug are hot after unfastening.

Exactly - you have to look for better sockets, with a certificate for 20 - 25A, OSPEL makes such flush-mounted ones and the insulator is ceramic and the contact pressure on solid springs.
In the charger it seems that the cable is thin, but it is a weave of thin wires of oxygen-free copper and quite often with the addition of silver and the plugs are also thick silver-plated, you can also look for over-plaster sockets for EV cars with silver-plated contacts.

Not every electrician is aware of the work of such chargers (as can be seen in previous posts)

and you still did not enter the distance between the meter, the board and the socket.
And this board is home, and from there it goes to the garage, because if so - from the meter to it there is definitely a fat 6 - 10mm?
And you wrote that you also gave a few sockets.

I would make a separate circuit in the switchboard (switchgear) with a 20A differential and a 3 x 4mm? cable from its cable and a sufficiently strong socket.

The meter - in the basement of the block - from it to the differential is probably 10m, maybe less - the meter behind the garage wall - the cable I think is 3 * 2.5.
Differential 16A. From her:
8A for 2 standard sockets
8A for lighting (currently 2 4W LED bulbs)
16A - added to the charging socket - cable to the socket about 2m.

As for the 16A cable to the socket, I can replace it with 3 * 4mm - it's not a problem. Worse with replacing the differential to 25A since the cable is live - I prefer not to check if the electrician's son is not ticking the current.

The problem for me is:
I do not know what is under the meter - whether 20A, maybe 25 like in an apartment.
I do not know how to disconnect the electricity from the meter - to rummage safely in the garage. There is a cover under the meter - I do not know if they can disassemble it - knowing life, there are ordinary fusible ones.

Karwos00 wrote:

The problem for me is:
I do not know what is under the meter - whether 20A, maybe 25 like in an apartment.
I do not know how to disconnect the electricity from the meter - to rummage safely in the garage. There is a cover under the meter - I do not know if they can disassemble it - knowing life, there are ordinary fusible ones.

And how are Forum users supposed to know?
Buddy, invite a kumaty electrician, but not "Czesia podka" with a red nose and a neon lamp in the lapel, but one who will cover the topic from A to Z and at the end will issue "papers".
No offense, but you're hoeing the sun.

Out of curiosity - how much is your electric vehicle worth that you are vexing on the payment of a professional electrician?

According to the theory, they should be 2.5 mm, but in my opinion, if someone does not overload them on purpose, there is little risk that they will be damaged. In my opinion, the durability of cables and the quality of their insulation will decrease if they are loaded with a current of 19 A for a long time. It also depends on whether the cables are placed on the top, in a conduit or in a heat-insulated wall. Cooling conditions are best for cables on the surface without a conduit and worst for a heat-insulated wall, if I remember correctly. And such a cable could theoretically not withstand. If you get 1.5 mm, you will have to be careful how much energy you get and for how long, and with 2.5 mm you can connect whatever you want and nothing dangerous should happen. The short circuit conditions meet both, so in case of a short circuit for C16 you are safe from what I remember. How it is for D16, I do not know, but you probably have C16 or B16 there, it's a breeze when it comes to short circuits.

Karwos00 wrote:

The wires used are 3x1.5. Is it enough for a long-term load of 16A?

Not enough - enough for 13A.
A 13A fuse for 3x1.5mm2 should be used.

From the beginning :

I do not regret any electrician - the one who replaced my meters did not have time at the moment.
A fairly thick black round wire goes from the meter to the differential - I don't know what it is.
16A differential from it to the charging socket - first B16 + 2m of 3x2.5 cable (surface-mounted, without a conduit - directly on the wall.
16A socket and plug.

And I am asking here because I do not know a good electrician in this city - maybe there will not be miles of the mentioned brewer and red nose - but that does not mean that they will be kumaty. Therefore, first I want to know how it should be so that he does not push me something that will work but not completely.
I checked the cross-section of the charger cables:
Cable from the socket to the module - 30cm - 3x2.5mm2 (this one is also warm while charging.
Cable from the module to the charging tip - about 8m 3x2.5 + 2x0.5

Again, you come back to unnecessary foam beating over thin 1.5mm? or even 2.5mm? wires. it will not withstand - well, if it is not the case, we are talking about energy saving, fast charging, etc ...

I suggest you read on the net - there is a lot of it - about induction cookers, some heat water for noodles for 5 minutes, others less than 2 minutes, some have, according to a standard load, connected with a 1.5mm? cable, and others were economical and ecological and connected with a 4mm? cable and you have to pay for the heating of cables in the wall.

There are also many topics on the forum about inverter welders, that it is for D .. that it does not hold the arc and breaks it off, that it sticks and many others, and then it turns out that it is connected with a 1.5mm? cable.
And yet everything was fine, and in accordance with the standard on the load.

While I can replace the differential via 16A with 3x4mm, but generally the charger cable is 3x2.5 - I don't know what's sitting there, unfortunately. Well, I will rather not replace the cable from the meter to the differential myself - and the electricians from PGE to such shit, somehow little time and maybe I will find time in a week or two.

As for the sockets, I was honestly looking (not quite well) and there were only 16A everywhere - as cast kits made of some rubber, quite solid clamping screws - but I was actually looking for at least 20A. I'll go to some warehouse and I'll probably get there. In stores, of course, questions - ladies, why do you need these.

Thanks for the hints. I am currently loading for 3.5 hours. The cables, however, are not 30 degrees - maybe 20 (in the garage about 12)

PS - you will tell me what sockets and plugs are - I can't find anything on the Ospel website - all 16A

Karwos00 wrote:

but in general, the charger cable is 3x2.5 - I don't know what's sitting there, unfortunately.

As I mentioned oxygen-free copper, or with the addition of silver, and the cable is very soft because it has a weave of many thin wires, such a 2.5mm? cable has much better parameters than the 4mm? energetic one, but its price is also better.

Where can you buy them? What I find are only loudspeaker cables, and when it is normal 3x2.5 black lines - but it's probably not like that :)

Complete charging - from 37% to 100% in 5h - consumption 15.3kW. A full cycle for a 24kW battery in 8 hours - as stated by the manufacturer of the charger.
Generally, you can see savings - for PLN 6 (24kW) you drive about 120-150 km depending on the driving technique and willingness to use the flexibility of the drill.

WojcikW wrote:

Of course, you also have to buy the plug.

And cut off the original plug at the charger to replace the 32A one

That's what I was thinking about. The next time I charge, I will check the temperatures and replace them with stronger ones.

The plug is already replaced with the European one - originally it was 240V but in the USA standard.