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battery in the trunk - connection to the battery and cut-off switch plus

HUBPOZ 8433 18
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  • #1 16671502
    HUBPOZ
    Level 11  
    battery in the trunk - connection to the battery and cut-off switch plus


    Hello,
    I am moving the battery to the trunk, and want to install a battery cutout.
    I wonder which is the safest option.

    I am not an electrician, therefore I am worried about the load capacity of a thinner cable line.

    I read conflicting opinions about the solutions for connecting several cables, e.g.
    two with the same cross section thinner instead of one thick in between
    one receiver and source.

    In my case, one is thicker and the other is thinner.

    Unfortunately, I do not know what parameters and diameters the audi cable has,
    hence I wrote roughly.
    and I do not know what the thinner cable was used for at the factory,
    whether to the fuse box or directly to the alternator.
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  • #2 16672116
    teskot
    Level 37  
    If you absolutely need to move the battery backwards, see how the factory solutions are implemented (BMW, Mercedes). In my opinion, firstly, it makes no sense to separate the power cables of the starter and other receivers (the chapter should be under the hood). Second, the battery disconnect switch should disconnect the "-" battery from the body. This solution is commonly used and safer. In addition, note that the cross-section of the cable you will need is at least one step higher than the factory battery-starter cable.
  • #3 16672204
    Dziarski Hank
    Level 34  
    teskot wrote:
    Second, the battery disconnect switch should disconnect the "-" battery from the body. This solution is commonly used and safer.


    Why, then, are cars using pyrotechnic clamps on the plus side, and in motorsport, are current disconnectors on the plus cable with a pump / ECU disconnector and a discharge resistor?
  • #4 16672695
    teskot
    Level 37  
    Switch disconnector directly on the terminal + here you are, the pump / ECU switch on the power cable is also the most, especially because it is preceded by a fuse of a relatively small value. But the departure from the + battery with a 35 or 50mm2 cable to the disconnector, and then to the installation, does not convince me very much. In the event of an "event", we are left with a section of the wire that is always live and the disconnector terminal itself. In my opinion, the use of such a disconnector on the ground wire is safer, because it will not be possible to disconnect the voltage if necessary, but we do not introduce any additional risk.
    Anyway, I'm not going to argue about whether to disconnect + or -. I wrote how I would do it, and the author will do it as he wants.
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  • #5 16672699
    Dziarski Hank
    Level 34  
    It wasn't a malicious question. For me, disconnecting the ground seems like a better idea, but as you can see, the facts are against the logic.
  • #6 16672916
    HUBPOZ
    Level 11  
    battery in the trunk - connection to the battery and cut-off switch plus

    In the attachment there is a diagram of how they do it in the US to the drug, as is the case with approvals for other rallies. They disconnect a plus.

    Although who I do not talk to, he advises to disconnect the minus ...

    I also noticed that quite often
    the alternator is connected to the battery directly in cars of different manufacturers.
    Unfortunately, I do not know and do not understand for what purpose.

    Unfortunately, I can not find any schematic for audi or bmw how they solve it.
    Because maybe the additional line is just for the alternator.

    As for the cable cross-section, unfortunately I do not know what the cross-section of this cable is,
    but it is used in many Audi models, it has its length so I think the manufacturer
    took into account its size to length.

    As for disconnecting the mass instead of a plus, I would have to lead a second, quite long cable if it was to be disconnected with a manual switch. (shorter if the magnetic relay is located in the trunk)

    What is safety in motorsport is usually detached outside the car,
    and in commercial vehicles, the pyrotechnic clamp disconnects immediately at the battery for safety.
    I, on the other hand, want to disconnect in the cabin due to the fact that I modified quite a lot
    the entire installation and I want to be in control in case something is fried.

    Therefore, the switch should be in the cabin.
    In fact, disconnecting ground seems to be the better solution.

    There is no live wire left, I will add a wire going under the carpet directly on
    car body. But the problem is that the positive wire would be almost 5 meters and the negative wire would be almost 3 meters instead of one.


    //

    To understand the matter, the most I would like to know is whether the starter current with two wires, one thick, the other 2/3 thinner, will not overheat the thinner one, or the percentage
    it will be distributed according to the resistance of the cables and the thinner wire is safe ??
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  • #7 16672954
    teskot
    Level 37  
    If you intend to use a contactor close to the battery, it really doesn't matter which pole you disconnect it. I don't understand, why would the mass cable be 3m? After all, you attach it to the car body in the closest place to the battery. If you are going to "release" 2 power lines separate for the starter and separate for the rest of the receivers, they can only be connected on the battery - they still have no right to connect with each other anywhere. And it is not recommended to use a few thinner wires instead of one thicker one, because the current flow will never be the same, and in the event of damage (interruption) of one of the wires, the current will flow through the remaining, functional ones and it may exceed the allowable value for a given cross-section. You can easily connect the B + terminal of the alternator with the terminal of the starter. Or to the point of power distribution to other receivers. In this case, it doesn't really matter. Just pay attention to the appropriate sections. If the alternator is, say, 90A, the cross-section of the battery-alternator cable is minimum 10mm2 (although better 16mm2 ;) . Below are 3 variants of how I would do it:
    battery in the trunk - connection to the battery and cut-off switch plus
  • #8 16673415
    carrot
    Moderator of Cars
    The alternator is to be connected to the battery bypassing the switch in order to avoid its damage when the plane is accidentally turned off with the engine running, the second issue is the current switch in the rally car to turn off the engine, so that it would not happen if the battery itself was disconnected (the ECU would work to still powered from the alternator), therefore the switch must not be between the - battery and ground
  • #9 16673528
    HUBPOZ
    Level 11  
    Why can the alternator be damaged if the battery is cut with the engine running? No receiver? Diesels run as far as I know without a battery and an alternator
    rather it is not disconnected from the terminal (battery not connected = no receiver)

    Added after 1 [hours] 42 [minutes]:

    battery in the trunk - connection to the battery and cut-off switch plus
  • #10 16673807
    Staszek49
    Level 35  
    Buddy, the "old" diesels could work without a battery and a generator, because they did not have fuel shut-off valve. Current diesels cannot be started without electricity, due to the advanced electronics.
  • #11 16673988
    Wawrzyniec
    Level 38  
    In trucks, battery disconnectors are used differently. Some positive, others negative. However, in cisterns and other vehicles for the transport of flammable materials, there is always a minus.
  • #12 16674955
    HUBPOZ
    Level 11  
    Staszek49 wrote:
    Buddy, the "old" diesels could work without a battery and a generator, because they did not have fuel shut-off valve. Current diesels cannot be started without electricity, due to the advanced electronics.


    it is not about walking without a generator but with an alternator without a battery,
    the question is why the alternator should fail if the current is suddenly cut off while the engine is running.
  • Helpful post
    #13 16675226
    carrot
    Moderator of Cars
    The voltage regulator in the alternator works on the principle of switching the voltage on the rotor on / off, it is not a smooth regulation. if you remove it from the load in the form of a battery, there will be a sudden voltage surge and breakdown of the diodes in the rectifier bridge
  • #15 16676878
    Wawrzyniec
    Level 38  
    He says "operationele power: 15 W".
  • #16 16677327
    teskot
    Level 37  
    But I don't think this relay / contactor is suitable for continuous operation.
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  • #17 16677360
    kkknc
    Level 43  
    It doesn't matter which pole you place the switch on. Although today disconnecting electronics is not the best solution. When moving the battery to the trunk, you need to increase the cable cross-section. And you have to convert it.
  • #18 16679702
    teskot
    Level 37  
    Everything has already been said, and the issue of possible damage to the alternator / electronics could be omitted in my opinion. The situation in which we use the disconnector is critical / emergency and at this point the safety of people and their lives is important, not the possibility of damaging the equipment. How we are to act "concretely" there is no sanctity. Use all available means to protect human life. For example, if I were to save a person who had been hit, I would have deep respect whether the protection on the pole would work or whether the transformer station would be hot. Sorry, off top.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the safe relocation of a car battery to the trunk and the installation of a battery cut-off switch. Participants debate the best practices for connecting battery cables, emphasizing the importance of using appropriately sized cables to handle the load. There are differing opinions on whether to disconnect the positive or negative terminal, with some advocating for disconnecting the negative for safety reasons. Concerns are raised about potential damage to the alternator if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running, highlighting the need for proper wiring to avoid voltage surges. The conversation also touches on the use of relays and contactors for battery management, with recommendations for ensuring adequate current capacity and safety measures in emergency situations.
Summary generated by the language model.
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