Peugeot 607 2.0HDi 136HP 2007 - No power. Turbo pressure and location

At the outset I would like to point out that FAP was removed in the car and deleted from the computer.

The car has absolutely no power. As if he was driving without a turbine.
Please help. Is it already a turbine or something else.

What I noticed:
- the turbine has no pressure at all
- the turbo position is the same all the time
- when reading the error temperature in the flow meter -49 degrees, and when reading the parameters 17 degrees.
- at 3,000 revolutions, the air setpoint 518 and measured 278. Except that at lower revolutions these values were similar.

Unfortunately, I do not know what is the reason for all this. I am asking for opinions. Thanks in advance

After connecting to the computer I read the error:


Below are pictures of parameters at various revolutions at a standstill. I will only add that when driving turbo pressure and copying the turbine looks the same as below

Intake air system:



Fuel system:



Then I removed the errors. I drove a car. And I read the errors again:

I did not check the error table. I don't even know how it works.

I removed the FAP because the car had already lost power. He could barely be accelerated, he kicked and hissed horribly. I was with 2 mechanics and they both found that FAP was blocked.

A friend who has been dealing with computer modifications for years has removed it. He never had problems with his previous cars. His friends also deleted FAP without problems. He guarantees that he is ok

I will add that I have a problem with the car from the beginning and I can't get over it. Before the FAP clogged up, the car had no power either.

Below is the history of repairs from the beginning of power problems:
- turbo pressure sensor
- turbine regeneration
-przepływomierz
-FAP

after each repair above there were no effects

please help me what to do now.
or if anyone knows a mechanic who could deal with it in Katowice or nearby

I am already slowly hoping that I will be able to drive this car normally

SIEMENS

if it's about it

RHR engine

Marek Sp wrote:

there even the regenerated turbine was calm and not treating the symptoms.

And what happened after the turbo regeneration? Is the power back or not? Because if she did not come back, it means that regeneration was fiction.

From the current parameter tables it is clearly seen that "cyclic ratio of turbocharger pressure solenoid valve" (ie "lives" 2a - Fig. below), "turbo pressure setpoint" - they are 88%. Such requirements are reported by the computer regarding turbo performance at the desired RPM and travel speed. Otherwise, this is the theoretical rated swing of the turbine blades. While "copy turbo position" , or indication by steering wheel position sensor indicates 10%. This means that the turbocharger only pumps with 10% power.

You should therefore lean again over the turbocharger, which has no normal performance. The most common cause of problems is vacuum control "bellows" (2a) plus a linkage mechanism and hinged lever that directly controls the position of the turbine blades. The principle of operation of a rather complicated gear mechanism is shown in the figure below. Although it applies to the 1.6 HDI DV6 engine, the principle of operation is identical.

The problem is usually caused by aggressive exhaust gases and ash deposited on individual controls. As a result, the mechanism simply sticks or moves with difficulty. Just washing and cleaning.

If the turbo steering mechanism is often clogged with soot, this is it secondary cause of disability. One would then have to figure out why the engine emits an excessive amount of black exhaust (cause primary ). The first figure is marked with red borders, most often defective elements in the air circuit, which directly contribute to excessive smoke of the engine. So in this case it is a type of combustion disruption not enough air .

By checking and improving the elements marked with red circles, we will restore the engine's power and, above all, enable "full breast breathing" of the turbocharger, as discussed.

Further elements in the air circuit are "sensitive" from the viewpoint of power loss.

In addition, there is no answer to the question, what happened to the throttling valves for hot and cold air (9, 9a - first drawing)? They are just used to support FAP firing. If you cut FAP, but you didn't neutralize the throttles and the entire installation of hot and cold air pipes (see pictures with red circles), then the whole FAP cut-out can, so to speak, shatter your ass ...

Kisses KotBury

Marek Sp wrote:

- DPF cut out there is wet with eloys and they don't clog up
- compressor regenerated
and probably something else and no effect.

I know this is a "wet" soot filter and therefore it is correctly called FAP (according to the French nomenclature) and not DPF (according to the German nomenclature). This does not change the form of things that the filter can be cut virtually in the matrixes of the computer and does not "see" FAP, but they still function physically throttling throttles and other air intake controls (see diagrams), and they shouldn't be there. I get the impression that we are talking like "grandfather about an awl and woman about a needle" ...

In addition, if a turbocharger was regenerated, what were the changes in engine operation before and after regeneration? You do not have to answer this question to us, but answer yourself, then you will come to what was the reason. Was there an improvement in power or the same as before regeneration? If it is the same, it means that no regeneration was carried out, only the turbocharger was removed and put back (and not even moved at all - I know such cases).

Have you seen the turbo with your own eyes when they were disassembled and then taken apart? Have you seen the turbo assembly and adjustment with your own eyes? Which should be done best in your presence, which should end with your signature, that you saw the whole procedure, you have no objections, etc.?

Watch the video on YT in which, although in an amateur but simple and understandable way, the guest shows how the VTG (Variable Turbo Geometry) works and what should be regenerated and calibrated https://youtu.be / l FewFqrIqw

Of course, I emphasize all the time, you do not have to translate anything in the forum. What did you do, where and how - is your business. However, I may realize that the client's rights are poorly understood. Which we often take away ourselves without being aware that they belong to us proverbially like a dog's soup.

Kitten KotBury2

The following repairs were carried out at mechanics, for whom no handrails. And due to the fact that I do not know myself as if I wanted, I could not check whether these repairs were actually carried out. Or there was no way to check the mechanic.

After buying the car, the engine had acceleration. However, weaker than other HDI 2.0 136 I have driven. It was clearly felt.
In addition, it lost power at 3 thousand revolutions when the accelerator pedal was at max. At that time it was also difficult to collect it above 3 thousand turns.
When the accelerator pedal was not fully depressed, acceleration was also at 3,000 revolutions and higher. However, not as it should be.
Mechanic diagnosis: Turbo pressure sensor or turbo boost. I do not remember now.
The sensor was replaced (about PLN 250 if I remember correctly)
No effects.

Then regeneration of the turbine. The assumption was to clean the blades. But the mechanic stated, when he reportedly took out the turbine, that the rotor was scattered and reportedly carried out a full regeneration for PLN 1200 (the price of the regeneration alone)
Unfortunately, I can not say if they cleaned the blades and whether they did such regeneration at all.
I got a written regeneration guarantee
No effects.
It was found that the turbine was damaged but something else was also broken, so it was searched further.

Then try driving with the flowmeter disconnected. It turned out that the car accelerates better. It also had no power drop at 3,000 revolutions.
Immediate diagnosis: flowmeter replacement (PLN 400).
No effects

Then clean the EGR.
No effects

Then try to blind the EGR
No effects
So since it did not help, the metal plate that was mounted to blind the EGR was removed.

Then the car lost more and more power, began to jerk, and soon lost all power, began to kick and hiss.
Diagnosis: FAP blocked.
FAP cut out.

After leaving the mechanic who cut FAP until he entered emergency mode he had power. Accelerated in my opinion as it should. But I can be wrong driving so much time with a car without power. After entering the emergency mode, there was a complete lack of power.
Unfortunately, it took some time since individual "repairs" because of the fact that the car was necessary for me to do my job and the mechanic's appointment was not good.

Then FAP was deleted from the computer. This is the last "repair" that was carried out.
The final effects are already described at the beginning of the topic. The total lack of power of the car.
A friend who deleted FAP on the computer claims that he did it right and that the fault must be somewhere else.
I will add that with other cars where he did modifications, there were never problems.

If this would help, I can throw in the parameters measured while driving. I will add that next week I am supposed to take the car to a mechanic (giving in the subject Marek Sp). But the topic is interesting and if it could help other people not spend a lot of money on repair that does not bring results, it's probably worth it.

I am guiding you once again on the pasted air and EGR diagrams. During repairs, only a few elements were focused, such as the flow meter, EGR, turbo, and yet not even a look at the throttle choking air , also trivial things like air filter , whether leaky intercooler . You just have to systematically, centimeter by centimeter, with a diagram in your hand, check the entire air intake system. Any, even the smallest leak in the long pipe installation may cause a decrease in power, i.e. not enough air .

In this puzzle you should not forget about sensors , which should be checked first when there is a decrease in power for unknown reasons. These are particularly the following sensors that can be damaged electrically and mechanically:

1) Air boost pressure sensor ;

2) Two air temperature sensors ;

3) Turbine copy sensor ;

4) EGR valve stroke sensor ;

5) mass air flow meter .

I remind you of the basic principle of checking electrical sensors, namely the computer "sees" not the sensors themselves, but whole circuits including cables and contacts. So it may be that the mechanic will replace the 20 flow meters and the fault will not disappear, because the sensor is fully functional but there is a break, short circuit, unstable contact on the cables and contacts.

Kitten KotBury2