Defro K1Pv4 Driver: Understanding & Adjusting Controller Parameters - CO Temp, Return Temp, & More

Hello,
I finally kindled a new boiler and it was the simplest thing to do. The problem or "problem" appeared, as it was necessary to put some parameters on the controller. I got out after a few hours, because the paper manual (28 pages), I am already in front of my eyes, the more so because the naming is not always unambiguous in relation to what on the controller image.
Someone had to change it before, so I'm counting on help. To make it simpler, I put a screenshot of the application that supports the driver.
Primarily:
- what is [Temperature of CO] nr (1) in the image I just set at 55 °. This temperature is given, and the boiler keeps it. OK, but where is it measured and how it affects other temperatures - [Return temperature] (3) whether [Built-in valve] (2) ?
- what is the temperature [built-in valve] (2) which can be set manually, and after switching on the weather sensor is set by the controller according to the heating curve? Where is it measured and how this [Valve temperature] has up to [CO Temperature]
- what temperature does the radiators actually supply (1) whether (2) or some other one?
- where [Return temperature] is measured (3) and why, if I set the [Return protection] menu, this [Return temperature] is set at the set altitude, but the radiators stop heating?
Other things besides these unfortunate temperatures: why is it possible to change the boiler's power - what is the positive effect?
If I turn off the PID, then the boiler does not work automatically?

Thanks in advance for even partial help.
greetings

So:
1: gray digits, set temperature, red boiler current temperature. Sensor in the boiler built in, under the black lid on the boiler.
2: Built-in valve. You probably have a 3-way or 4-way valve. This is the temperature at the OUTPUT from the valve that goes to the radiators. This valve helps to maintain the return temperature, but also as well as with the external sensor based on the heating curve regulates you the temperature that goes to the radiators, to be warm and not overheated. It is also about your comfort at home, and that the boiler does not work at too low a parameter.
3: Return temperature. The sensor should be located as close as possible to the return pipe to the boiler itself. The return temperature should be at least 45 * C-50 * C The idea is to heat the boiler first and then the installations. If the return temperature is too low, the boiler will start to condense, sweat and immediately eat the rust. First the return temperature, then the heating of the installation.
I would advise you to set the boiler to +60 degrees, and let the temperature on the valve be controlled by the weather station you own. The boiler should have a higher temperature, and it will enter the "sustain" state and will have its "heat supply" for a period of time not to work and sprinkle the peas all the time.
Do you have radiators or a floorstander? Or maybe this too?
If you turn off the PID you control the boiler, you can say it rigidly. So many seconds of fuel, so much break and flies stiffly. If the PID function is turned on, it measures the exhaust temperature, selects the appropriate pea feed time, fan power, etc. I had at one customer more than 280 * C on the exhaust, a hot chimney and a cold boiler. Frequent feeding, large fan power, and everything went into the chimney. I recommend work on PID.

goldzik15 wrote:

1: gray digits, set temperature, red boiler current temperature. Sensor in the boiler built in, under the black lid on the boiler.

Heh, I could not locate it

goldzik15 wrote:

2: Built-in valve. You probably have a 3-way or 4-way valve. This is the temperature at the OUTPUT from the valve that goes to the radiators.

Yes, I have 4 roads, and I locate this sensor by going from the controller "by cable". They could in the instructions, or eModul application, call this temperature "Temperature of heating radiators" instead of "Built-in valve". Not that I would cling, but what Kowalski should understand from the reading "Built-in valve 48 ° C

goldzik15 wrote:

3: Return temperature.

I've already found it "by the cable".
The above was resolved with your help.
What remains to be explained:
1. Accordingly, set [CO] (1)? [Heating curve] automatically sets the temperature of the water supplying the radiators called Defro [Built-in valve], it is set manually [Temperature of CO] should be higher from it, but if? So - what is the relationship between these temperatures (1) and (2)?
2. Why if I set the [Return protection] menu, this [Return temperature] (3) is set at the set temperature, but the temperature of the radiators drops? What's more, this temperature of heaters can not reach the set point. Even when raising to a sky-high [CH temperature] (1), [Valve temperature] (2) is not reached. I understand that the purpose of [Return Protection] is to maintain the set temperature of this return - this is the priority, but why the regulation is not working properly at this point, so that after setting the return temperature "pull up" the radiators? After a few hours spent in the boiler room, I assume that most users have [protection of return] turned off. (I am suggesting that the combination of 4D profession, pump and boiler have not been made correctly - they are in accordance with the manufacturer's DTR).
3. Outdoor temperatures are positive, I experiment by changing the parameter [Boiler power]. I set from 50 to 100%. Somehow I do not see any difference in the behavior of the boiler. What does it make sense, and must have, if such a function exists in the controller menu?

greetings

5050piotr wrote:

They could in the instruction or eModul application call this temperature "Heaters power supply temperature" instead of "Built-in valve"

It can be a valve on the floor, radiators and what only someone will come up with

5050piotr wrote:

1. According to which, set [CO] (1)? [The heating curve] automatically sets the temperature of the water supplying the radiators called Defro [Built-in valve], it is set manually [CH temperature] should be higher than it, but how much? So - what is the relationship between these temperatures (1) and (2)?

Which boiler, what power, what surface for heating, etc. Set on the boiler 65 degrees, and the curve for -20 * around 60 *, for -10 * about 50 *, for 0 such 40-45

5050piotr wrote:

If I turn off the PID, then the boiler does not work automatically?

Yes, if you turn off the PID, the furnace continues to work automatically, but the automation in the furnace uses a different method (algorithm) to calculate when and how long to turn on the blower, how much fuel to pour out, etc. Sensor readings and settings from the controller are also taken (by settings from the controller "I mean what you can enter it, i.e. the power of the blow, the length of the fuel supply, etc.) but are used in a different way.

You can imagine it this way: PID control usually works better, control without PID is more on the kama but also more intuitive for the human.

You can also treat control without PID as the last resort board - as PID does not work (which even in the manual is marked that it can happen) then setting control without PID should help (with worse effect but at least the stove will be warming up).

You can also assume that PID control will give better results (lower combustion, less temperature fluctuations at home, faster reaction to outdoor temperature drops) than PID.

Added after 10 [minutes]:

5050piotr wrote:

What is [Temperature of CO] where is it measured and how does it affect other temperatures - [Return temperature] (3) or [Built-in valve] (2)?

This is the "basic" temperature, such a supply of the entire system. Imagine this as a bucket to which the stove gives what it can produce (ie heat). Example setting [CH temperature set: 68 °].

From this bucket with the help of a built-in valve, the heat is transferred to the radiators - as if the valve was completely open, all heat would go from the heater to the radiators - but usually it is not, the valve is almost completely closed and a very small stream of heat is better to heaters. Sample setting [Built-in valve preset: 45 °].

Now the maid (which is what you have at home where you set the temperature): I have a two-state maid. So when the temperature in the house falls below what I asked, he says "heating." As it grows above what I set up, he says "no heating." Sample setting [House maid: 20 °].

And now an example, having set these 68 ° / 45 ° / 20 °:
1. the house is 18 °, so the maid says "heating"
2. the stove is preheated to say 65 °, i.e. [CO temperature current: 65 °]
3. The temp on the built-in valve is say 25 °, i.e. [Built-in valve current: 25 °]
4. the furnace will now try to "heat", i.e. give as much of these 65 ° (trying to keep the set 68 °) to warm up the valve at 25 ° to any 45 ° until it has a signal from the "heating" chambermaid - that is, the temperature on the built-in valve ("on the radiators") heats you flat instead of the temperature on the stove.
5. the stove gives its heat to the valve, it heats from 25 ° to say 39 ° (which makes it more or less to this temperature). the radiators heat up) and the temperature in the house increases at this time from the initial 18 ° to the set 20 °
6. since the temperature in the house has grown to a given 20 °, the maid says "no heating"
7. the furnace stops applying the built-in heat to the valve, so its temperature starts to drop from these 39 °; the stove is still trying to keep its set [CO temperature: 68 °].

Added after 29 [minutes]:

5050piotr wrote:

What does it make sense, and must have, if such a function exists in the controller menu?

There is one sentence in this manual on the subject (I read it yesterday) - I do not have it in front of my eyes, please quote this sentence, we will explain what it is all about.

5050piotr wrote:

Somehow I do not see any difference in the behavior of the boiler.

This is how the PID works (or any more complicated control algorithm) - you will not see your settings right away, maybe you will not see them at all, because the algorithm itself will select from a certain range and with the parameters you specify and with the data read from the sensors. It does not work so that you set and tick it is already given to the system.

I do not know what it results from, but the DEFRO telephone service refuses to recognize the warranty issued by their service technician. Well, that's our "right". From the advice I recommend: 1. use eco-pea coal with proper granulation 2. use eco-pea coal with a combustion heat of 24-26MJ. A higher ratio results in a large amount of sinters. 3.Because I live in southern Poland, I started buying eco-pea "Taurona".

After making my selection, I compared the parameters of eco-pea coal provided by various strange suppliers and it turned out that my decision was right. The parameters set by the service technician were sufficient for about 7 months of failure-free operation, and then the usual "Hall effect error" fun began. The method of remedying this type of fault is simple, "automatics", but every day you have to check the level of carbon in the "funnel" of the burner. The drop in the carbon level in the retort burner causes the screw tip to burn. Unfortunately, it is not possible to control or adjust this parameter (you can possibly adjust the feeding time in the service menu). Maybe the rest of the parameters are properly regulated, but this one costs (if someone does not know) about PLN 2,000. This price also includes the replacement of the gear motor (the quote from the service technician's statement "we do not have a separate screw and gear motor")

Check the Android version if you use your mobile to control the stove and view data. Hot-Line advised me to buy a new mobile phone (a better one, ca. 1000-1500) so that the new soft was fully functional. Android version above 7 can only supposedly run. Sick company and better stay away from it. The last software update was December 14, 2022 and since then alarms and notifications do not come to my mobile, but only to my e-mail.