Elektroda.com
Elektroda.com
X

Search our partners

Find the latest content on electronic components. Datasheets.com
Elektroda.com

New Installation / Old Block (3 phase missing)

szelerr 14271 19
This content has been translated flag-pl » flag-en View the original version here.
  • #1
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    Hello, at the beginning I would like to describe the situation.
    I am starting a general renovation of a 33m2 apartment in an old block of flats. Currently, the installation is old copper 1 phase 240 v (see photo). In the middle of the apartment, the sockets are not working (electricity is there, but there is no zero or something like that). Today I will have a gentleman who will make me a working socket for construction equipment because I will demolish sowing divider.
    I would like to order someone to make a new installation and switchgear. However, I get lost in the place, what to choose and what is the process of bringing Sily to the apartment?
    I counted about 29 points at home including (TV, modem, washing machine, dishwasher, induction, extractor hood, fridge etc ..) will all this be pulled by the 240v installation ?????
    It depends for me that everything is done in accordance with the law so that I can insure my apartment.



    What to choose a 240v one phase switching station? whether 3 phases (and how to go about it)
    https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1628621700_1565093259.jpg

    Best wishes
    New Installation / Old Block (3 phase missing)
  • Helpful post
    #2
    Grzegorz740
    Level 36  
    First, check the costs of connecting a 3-phase power supply. If you can afford it, you can get yourself a 3-phase power supply. Ask about it at the energy company. They will tell you what the connection fee is and what formalities must be met.
  • #3
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    Grzegorz740 wrote:
    First, check the costs of connecting a 3-phase power supply. If you can afford it, you can get yourself a 3-phase power supply. Ask about it at the energy company. They will tell you what the connection fee is and what formalities must be met.



    Hello
    And it is not so that it pays ZE for it and I pay for everything from the meter?
  • Helpful post
    #4
    kortyleski
    Level 43  
    Nobody will bury in offices for you. But
    szelerr wrote:
    I would like to order someone to make a new installation and switchgear.

    Your role is therefore limited to wandering around the apartment with that person and indicating where the sockets are to be, where are the points of light, where what else

    szelerr wrote:
    It depends for me that everything is done in accordance with the law so that I can insure my apartment.

    Therefore, an installation design should be made, made and measured. Then you will be safe and the insurer will have nothing to cling to.
  • Helpful post
    #5
    kozi966
    Moderator of Electricians group
    szelerr wrote:
    and it is not so that he pays ZE for it, and from the meter on, I pay for everything?

    Not necessarily. Because WLZ may be owned by, for example, a housing community.
    Then the cost of 3f power supply is covered by you (bringing the appropriate cable from the main distribution board in the facility to your apartment). What could be forging in the staircase and fixing the walls after the fact.
    szelerr wrote:
    Hi people say that you do not need 240v, you can do everything and no one has to answer.

    The point here is not that someone has to pick it up, but the point is that someone has to let it operate (measurements + declaration).
    Generally, most of the devices in the residential installation will be supplied from one phase, the only question is whether the protection you can have on this one phase at most will be able to "handle" it all.
  • #6
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    kozi966 wrote:
    szelerr wrote:
    and it is not so that he pays ZE for it, and from the meter on, I pay for everything?

    Not necessarily. Because WLZ may be owned by, for example, a housing community.
    Then the cost of 3f power supply is covered by you (bringing the appropriate cable from the main distribution board in the facility to your apartment). What could be forging in the staircase and fixing the walls after the fact.
    szelerr wrote:
    Hi people say that you do not need 240v, you can do everything and no one has to answer.

    The point here is not that someone has to pick it up, but the point is that someone has to let it operate (measurements + declaration).
    Generally, most of the devices in the residential installation will be supplied from one phase, the only question is whether the protection you can have on this one phase at most will be able to "handle" it all.


    Thank you for your answer.

    "The only question is whether the security you can have at most on this one phase will be able to" bear "it all

    Can I somehow calculate it? Where can I find information about the maximum protection I can have at this stage?
  • Helpful post
    #7
    r103
    Level 31  
    A bit late for planning when I "start renovation" but better late than never.

    1. First of all - calculation of the required power. In your dream devices, you have an induction cooker - it can use 9 kW to work without "nerves" - you will not provide this amount of electricity "in one phase" because you have a contract for up to 5 kW and the protection will work. For all these devices, I am shooting, you need a contract for 15 kW and three phases. And that's if the heating is not on electricity

    2. Block - you must first contact the manager if it is possible to connect 3 phases and 15 kW / appropriate Internal Power Line WLZ / - after the photo I shoot that it is not.

    3. Then you go to the electricity supplier to see if he is able to supply the 15 kW - if not, then the end of the ball, if so and WLZ cannot do it - then you are either waiting for some future joint modernization - or you are taking the time and financing the construction of WLZ

    And after getting the knowledge on 1,2,3 - write to us how is it maybe someone will come up with something?
  • #8
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    r103 wrote:
    A bit late for planning when I "start renovation" but better late than never.

    1. First of all - calculation of the required power. In your dream devices, you have an induction cooker - it can use 9 kW to work without "nerves" - you will not provide this amount of electricity "in one phase" because you have a contract for up to 5 kW and the protection will work. For all these devices, I am shooting, you need a contract for 15 kW and three phases. And that's if the heating is not on electricity

    2. Block - you must first contact the manager if it is possible to connect 3 phases and 15 kW / appropriate Internal Power Line WLZ / - after the photo I shoot that it is not.

    3. Then you go to the electricity supplier to see if he is able to supply the 15 kW - if not, then the end of the ball, if so and WLZ cannot do it - then you are either waiting for some future joint modernization - or you are taking the time and financing the construction of WLZ

    And after getting the knowledge on 1,2,3 - write to us how is it maybe someone will come up with something?


    Also thank you for the opd.

    Well, that's what I put off with the renovation. I'm just going to make a bedroom.

    I was also thinking of induction only for 2 heating zones. Some of them write 240 v. Now I do not know how to respond to the electrician who was with me. He offered me switchboards above the door x things on different separate wires and guarantees that it should work without any problems, but the farther into the forest, the more I have doubts about it. The heating is not on electricity and the water is from a warmer.
  • #9
    kortyleski
    Level 43  
    What is your power allocation in the apartment?
  • Helpful post
    #10
    teskot
    Level 34  
    Some utilities allocate power on one phase to a maximum of 5.5kW. Others give a maximum of 8.5kW (40A pre-meter protection). With this smaller allocation, in principle, only a 2-field induction hob is at stake and strictness among the household members: if a washing machine is not a dishwasher, if a full-fledged hob is used, then with a washing machine or dishwasher, then without a kettle or oven (microwave). Live is possible, but it has little to do with comfort.
    In the case of a three-phase installation, the smallest, sensible pre-meter protection is 3x20A, i.e. the ordered power at the level of 12kW.
    Induction hobs always work on one or two phases. Each can be connected to a 230V installation, but it will not necessarily be possible to use their full power. So assume that the most important receivers will be all kinds of heating devices (hob, washing machine, dishwasher, kettle, iron, coffee machine). Electronics and lighting are drawing on negligible powers today.
    Start by getting information from the community or administration about their approvals for increasing the power allocation. Perhaps it will involve the need to lay new cables between the meter and the apartment (possible hammering of walls or installation of trays or pipes). It may happen that the WLZ will not be prepared for the increased demand and will have to be replaced at its own expense. Then the consent of the energy company. After all, the electrician's statement that the residential installation is ready for connection. Good luck.
  • #11
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    So thank you all for the answer !!
    As of today, the job looks like this:
    -electrician is making me a working socket
    - it turned out that the zero had melted in the switchboard ... yet the method for the screw screwed into the wall, everything was flying there (before there was no electricity in the middle of the apartment due to the lack of zero)
    -I will install a new board with Esami today to make it somehow fool around with the power industry, a professional will come to put a seal
    -and tomorrow I am going to the cooperative and ZE with my father because he is the owner we will deal with the issue of increasing the power and see what it will come out


    Question: is the 3-phase HL cable from the switchgear with fuses to my apartment or from my 3-phase board to the main box with fuse protection? ?
  • Helpful post
    #12
    teskot
    Level 34  
    The minimum 5x6mm? cable is to be between the meter (as I understand it in the staircase) and your home switchboard. What next depends on the energy and administration.
  • #13
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    teskot wrote:
    The minimum 5x6mm? cable is to be between the meter (as I understand it in the staircase) and your home switchboard. What next depends on the energy and administration.


    Exactly what came out after finding this wire from the meter to the apartment is 6 or thicker ... the electrician says that houses on such a thick power supply? How can I assess it myself or check what kind of cable it is? is it better to take a picture? and throw it because the gum has already crumbled on it.
  • Helpful post
    #14
    teskot
    Level 34  
    I doubt if it was more than 4mm?. It is measured normally with a caliper (after disconnecting the power supply !!!). 4mm? wire is 2.25mm in diameter, 6mm? is 2.76mm in diameter. It is definitely a two-wire cable. You have to replace it with a 3 or 5 wire (one or three phases).
  • Helpful post
    #15
    Brivido

    Level 33  
    Take a photo and upload it.
    You don't have to go to the 3 phases right away, but you can always prepare the power cord. Here is a question for the manager whether he has any conditions for it, whether it can be stuck in, or in a pipe on the wall. Power supply from the meter, if it is in the stairwell, to your switchboard. If you have a meter in your apartment, it is also worth putting it outside (see the manager). Installations in the apartment are done one way or another, regardless of whether you have a 3f power supply or not, then it is a possible matter of switching in the switchgear. It is worth doing so that you can later, painlessly switch to 3F. Circuits, fuses, never too many. If it was reasonably good, it is the optimal switchgear of 36 modules for the apartment ;)
  • #16
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    This is what it looks like after changing the board. We are dealing today with an application for 15kw and 3 phases and a seal for the meter after a small renovation, unless they already have a meter for 3 phases? (I'm still getting lost in the topic)
    The electrician mentioned that the installation in the block is single-phase so there may be complications.

    Brivido - the counter is on the cage in front of the door and next to it, on the other wall, there is a cupboard as shown in the photo. with main fuse.

    New Installation / Old Block (3 phase missing) New Installation / Old Block (3 phase missing) New Installation / Old Block (3 phase missing)
  • #18
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    I have to pull the 3-phase cable at my own expense, fortunately it is on the ground floor and not far from the main switchboard. The tenant is in a deplorable condition burned three times. I'm pulling from the main.
  • #19
    CYRUS2
    Level 42  
    szelerr wrote:
    I have to pull the 3-phase cable at my own expense. On the ground floor and not far from the main switchboard, because the tenant is in bad condition, it has already burned 3 times.
    Give it to an electrician from the administration - they will not cling to the cage and design.
  • #20
    szelerr
    Level 4  
    Here I have a community + cooperative. After the phone call, it went out to them. Do the job with your electrician, seal everything and we'll take it back