Rust spots on cutlery - causes and solutions when washing in the dishwasher

Girls and Boys
Maybe you are familiar with such rusty spots that are an undesirable side effect of washing in a dishwasher? They appear in small quantities, a few pieces on one knife, their size is usually around 0.5-1 mm, and the color suggests typical rust known from ordinary steel.

The cutlery itself is made of solid material, it was previously washed in this dishwasher and generally there was no problem for the first two years or so.
The device is not mine and I do not know the exact details of the chemicals or programs used.
Your Mateusz

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

The cutlery itself is made of solid material,

Hello, from which one?
Ps. Such spots occur on high-carbon steel (with a large addition of carbon, so-called Carbon Steel)

Rust on dishwasher cutlery is the result of a leaky closure of the salt container, or you do not remove the cutlery immediately after washing.

pilomatt wrote:

Rust on dishwasher cutlery is the result of a leaky salt container closure or if you do not remove the cutlery immediately after washing.

It may be that this is the cause. Sometimes I also notice a slight coating. I try to take them out right after turning off the dishwasher.
It once helped to put a pinch of salt on the cutlery before washing it.

I have the same thing and I think it is ordinary steel, only nickel-plated or chrome-plated with a thin layer of precious metal. The dishwasher has simply washed out the poorly attached protective metal and these points will cause corrosion every time. Likewise, silver-plated cutlery should not be used.

@gorki73
Specifically, these knives are products from several decades ago, from a quite expensive set.
The inscriptions on the knives are: "GERLACH POLAND" and "stainless".
It is not a carbon steel product or the so-called budget with low-quality material.
At the same time, these spots also appear on all other cutlery.
Previously, there was no problem with them, even after the initial approximately two years of washing in the same dishwasher.

It`s worse than I initially thought.
There are micro spots on each piece of cutlery, some of them are micro pits without a rusty color.


@pilomatt
The traffic jam was not completely closed, but there was no tragedy.

In general, its design ensures that it cannot be tightened too tightly.
Attention. After unscrewing it, some excess fluid poured out, what should be its level and should some of it be removed?

On the inside of the door I saw something like this:

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

In general, its design ensures that it cannot be tightened too tightly.
Attention. After unscrewing it, some excess fluid poured out, what should be its level and should some of it be removed?

You add salt and then pour water right up to the cork. Of course, tap water .

pilomatt wrote:

You add salt and then pour water right up to the cork.

Right under the cap, without any free space in case of volume changes due to temperature changes?

Here the situation was such that while unscrewing the cap, fluid flowed out from the tank, pushed out by a slight overpressure.

pilomatt wrote:

Of course, tap water .

Are you sure it`s from the tap? Maybe demineralized or at least boiled?

The case turned out to be a development one.
After removing the filter, I found in it and in the further drain the remains of a glass cup destroyed by the dishwasher at the beginning of its use.
It seems that the drain itself is clogged and the problem may be a direct result of the water remaining in it.


Inside, although only on one side, I found very similar stains.


Likewise on one side of the door.


Unfortunately, the dishwasher is built-in, located in the corner and adjacent to a cabinet that cannot be pulled out due to the sink and water installation.

What ideas do you have for dealing with the whole drain repair issue?

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

What ideas do you have for dealing with the whole drain repair issue?

And what is damaged in it?

Sebastian_M26 wrote:

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

What ideas do you have for dealing with the whole drain repair issue?

And what is damaged in it?

Is this water supposed to stay there instead of being pumped out?

Added

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Is this water supposed to stay there instead of being pumped out?

Of course! First dishwasher in your life?

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

It seems that the drain itself is clogged and the problem may be a direct result of the water remaining in it.

It has nothing to do with it, washing powders or tablets are very aggressive and therefore damaging, I have the same problem, either there are spots or the cutlery turns black, which is also a symptom of rust.

@Janusz_kk
1. There was no problem for about two years, the dishwasher and cutlery were the same. For example, tarnishing the aluminum handle of one knife has a different character and appearance. Here it looks like something corrosive has been sprayed on it.
2. Could the reason be dirty filters? The smallest one looked like it needed cleaning, but it wasn`t obviously taped either. Could the water flow too slowly and splash inside?
3. Is there actually supposed to be water in this drain all the time? What about the effect of immersed food remains remaining on the filters? This dishwasher may only be turned on once every week or two. What about different types of bacteria and fungi?

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

For about two years there was no problem,

You haven`t seen it, corrosion is progressing all the time, I have a 13-year-old dishwasher so I know what I`m talking about.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Could this be due to dirty filters?

No, I clean it on a regular basis, I wash off the leftovers before I put the dishes in the dishwasher, and the same thing happens to me, I just don`t pay attention to it anymore, I wipe off the rust with a cloth and that`s it, it`s not poison.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Is there actually supposed to be water in this drain all the time?

Yes, because during the next wash, there is a preliminary wash before the actual wash and the dishwasher does it with this water, then pumps it out and uses clean water for proper washing.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

What about the effect of immersed food remains remaining on the filters?

This shouldn`t be the case, these remnants are `disinfected` with heat and baking soda from the tablet, and the water is the water after the last rinse, it probably won`t be dirty.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

This dishwasher may only be turned on once every week or two. What about different types of bacteria and fungi?

Then, after emptying the dishwasher, pour some vinegar in there.

ad.1 It`s about corrosion of the cutlery, not the dishwasher.
ad.2 This is not a rusty coating that can be removed with a cloth. Some of them are burns the size of a pinhead with only a slightly darkened color, and some of them are rust that appears alive after a few days on ordinary steel exposed to rain.

For now, I have cleaned the filters and am waiting for any results until the dishwasher is in use.

Any suggestions and tips are welcome.

Added
Review question: Shouldn`t that salt have dissolved in that water?

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

It`s about corrosion of the cutlery, not the dishwasher.

After all, we write about cutlery all the time the dishwasher also corrodes, for example: salt spills out at the bottom when adding it, so it is recommended to add salt just before starting it.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

This is not a rusty coating that can be removed with a cloth. Some of them are burns the size of a pinhead with only a slightly darkened color, and some of them are rust that appears alive after a few days on ordinary steel exposed to rain.

I also have this and that, it all depends on the steel, you can`t do anything about it.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Shouldn`t this salt have dissolved in this water?

No, because a saturated solution is created, i.e. brine, if it were all dissolved, you would lose all of it, but it is used up gradually, the dishwasher then regenerates the softener bed with it. This is so that there are no calcium stains on the glasses when rinsing. Therefore, it is important to set the correct water hardness in the dishwasher.

Janusz_kk wrote:

everything depends on steel, you can`t do anything about it

I didn`t have this problem for the first two years and I want to get it back.

Is there any room for maneuver by changing the dishwasher program settings?

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

I didn`t have this problem for the first two years and I want to get it back.

After all, I wrote to you, the problem is with poor steel and it has been there from the beginning, but it is not visible.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Is there any room for maneuver by changing the dishwasher program settings?

Lower water temperature will definitely help, that`s why I wash on the eco program.

Yes, maybe a lower temperature or a shorter program

bobsters wrote:

Yes, maybe a lower temperature or a shorter program

However, at a lower temperature the program is longer something for something.

Remove the baskets and carefully check whether there is any crack in the plastic coating surrounding the wires.

Once I used a stainless steel spoon as an anode for electrolysis - (as you write - from a quite expensive old set) - there was half a millimeter of stainless steel on the surface, and ordinary steel inside - of course, electrolysis ate away the center and left a shell of the spoon.
How do they do it to apply stainless steel to the surface? - I don`t know, but it`s true.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

The inscriptions on the knives are: "GERLACH POLAND" and "stainless".

This is a clever marketing trick by Gerlach. Stainless steel cutlery, but without going into details how this stainless steel was achieved in the production process. If these cutlery had the words "stainless steel" written on them, it would mean that they were made of stainless steel. Although this inscription does not fully reflect the quality of workmanship when exposed to high temperatures and a corrosive solution, such as an aqueous salt solution moving at high speed. Example on home stainless steel pots: Zepter and IKEA. The one from IKEA, after being boiled several dozen times, becomes covered with microscopic spots of rust, while the Zepter one, which has been used intensively for several years, is in perfect condition. The difference is due to the stainless steel used, which translates into the purchase price.
I believe that before we put any tableware item manufactured before the era of dishwashers into the dishwasher, we should consider whether we can do it without damaging our "valuable" items. I write "valuable" because they may have material or sentimental value that we may lose.

homo_sapiens wrote:

I believe that before we put any tableware item manufactured before the era of dishwashers into the dishwasher, we should consider whether we can do it without damaging our "valuable" items.

You should definitely not put painted porcelain after glazing, because the pictures will gradually disappear. Similarly, we do not put wooden things or Teflon pans.

homo_sapiens wrote:

Example on home stainless steel pots: Zepter and IKEA. The one from IKEA, after being boiled several dozen times, becomes covered with microscopic spots of rust, while the Zepter one, which has been intensively used for over a dozen years, is in perfect condition.

Because stainless steel is just a slogan, ordinary steel is only resistant to rust, but not to, for example, chlorides. Acid-resistant steel is resistant, but it is expensive and cheap pots are definitely not made of it. For example, I don`t put pots because it`s a waste of space, only everything else, i.e. porcelain and glass. Interestingly, the glass also scratches and becomes dull over time. But the biggest problem is the cutlery that turns black, some spoons are almost black.

Janusz_kk wrote:

Yes, because during the next wash, there is a preliminary wash before the actual wash and the dishwasher does it with this water, then pumps it out and uses clean water for proper washing.

This right here, this is bullshit, buddy! The first thing the dishwasher does when you start the program is try to remove the water from the previous wash. It is not always just water, sometimes something spills from a glass or pot placed in the chamber - it should be removed immediately and not used for pre-washing. Anyway, how much water is there? Half a glass maximum. For the first wash, the dishwasher floods the chamber with approximately 4.2 liters of water.

Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:

Is this water supposed to stay there instead of being pumped out?

That`s it, buddy, it depends. Mainly on how much water dripped from the dishes after washing, back into the chamber. However, at the end of the washing stage, the dishwasher always tries to get rid of as much of this water as possible and this level should not be so high with this filter chamber design. Maybe after the program was turned off, the dishes dripped so much, but it never happened to me. Some water always remains there (about 2 cm from the bottom), because the pump is not able to pump out all of it (the pump has an inlet from the side of the bottom).
I`d rather believe that you have a damaged check valve behind the pump and that the water from the drain pipe flowed back into the chamber (after the pump turned off, either immediately or after some time). Except that this amount of dirty water has no effect on anything. And immediately after starting the program, the water should be poured out by the pump as much as it can.

Janusz_kk wrote:

You haven`t seen it, corrosion is progressing all the time, I have a 13-year-old dishwasher so I know what I`m talking about.

The feature of dishwashers is that these chemicals degrade the cutlery. I also have such spots, normal... Only they appeared when I first placed cheap cutlery in the dishwasher, and they did not leave any marks on the walls of the dishwasher.

But Gerlach`s cutlery doesn`t corrode like that in the dishwasher. Nor the old PRL Stainless steel. Only the modern, cheap ones, bought for pennies.



A little offtopic:

The sudden appearance of this type of corrosion, although it was not there before, reminds me a bit of this thread:

Link

But that`s where it happened "in a big way"...

Ture11 wrote:

This right here, this is bullshit, buddy!

Weigh your words, my friend, read how modern water-saving dishwashers work and then apologize.

Ture11 wrote:

The feature of dishwashers is that these chemicals degrade the cutlery. I have spots like that too, normal...

Of course, without trying to prove it, dishwashers unfortunately degrade what is washed in them. This is something for something.

Ture11 wrote:

The feature of dishwashers is that these chemicals degrade the cutlery. I have spots like that too, normal...

This happens with me, and with my parents too. Interestingly, it appears from time to time on Gerlach models from the 1980s. Mainly knives, maybe spoons. To make things more interesting, spoons and forks are not necessary. This has never worked for me with newer, cheap everyday cutlery and festive sets.

Generally, it will be the result of some chemical reaction, steel, residues and chemicals. I don`t know what exactly is going on there, I won`t go into detail because I don`t need it. The spots can be polished off quickly and that`s it.

My and my parents` dishwasher, I can assure you, is in perfect condition.

Ture11 wrote:

Slight offtopic:

The sudden appearance of this type of corrosion, although it was not there before, reminds me a bit of this thread:

Link

But that`s where it happened "in a big way"...

Something else happened there, there was an Amica dishwasher, and their equipment now tends to corrode in the washing chambers, which should nomen omen be made of stainless steel, but Amica is currently a purely Chinese product, so there is no point in expecting miracles.
Nevertheless, that case was spectacular.

Janusz_kk wrote:

Ture11 wrote:

This right here, this is bullshit, buddy!

Weigh your words, my friend, read how modern water-saving dishwashers work and then apologize.

Unfortunately, something is ringing, just not entirely in this church. Col. Ture11 is right.
The dishwasher wouldn`t be able to wash even a spoon with this little water, for the simple reason that it won`t be able to create pressure on the pump with such a small amount of water.
What`s on your mind is not changing the water between the initial and main wash. Dishwashers equipped with OWI sensors, if the water at the end of the pre-wash cycle is relatively clean, may decide not to replace it for the main wash.
EOT

mrice wrote:

This has never worked for me with newer, cheap everyday cutlery and festive sets.

Well, for me too. And there`s so much complaining about the quality of currently produced goods?

DiZMar wrote:

And there`s so much complaining about the quality of currently produced goods?

Let`s not touch on this topic, because we will write thirteen books like Mickiewicz

mrice wrote:

Something else happened there, there was an Amica dishwasher, and their equipment now tends to corrode in the washing chambers, which should nomen omen be made of stainless steel, but Amica is currently a purely Chinese product, so there is no point in expecting miracles.

There, the corrosion occurred within an hour-long cycle But if there was a phase in the water, I can imagine it happening so quickly. Apparently, after repair, this coating gradually disappears.