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Connecting Two Different Sockets Without Grounding: Main Cable Bridging Inquiry

omaxp 2508 16
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Can I bridge two different sockets on the main cable if I don't know where the grounding is connected in my apartment?

No—do not make a bridge on the main cable or change the sockets blindly; contact the property administrator and have an electrician check the installation first [#20421068][#20419783] The building administrator should know whether the installation is TN or TT, and that matters before any protective-conductor or neutral bridging is done [#20419783] If there is truly no other option, the forum notes that “zeroing” may be used temporarily, but PE and N should be separated as soon as possible [#20422384] Even then, you still need to know the network layout and the protection used, because the installation may not be what you think it is [#20422384] The photo and description suggest the wiring may already have been altered, so a full check and correction by a measuring electrician is recommended [#20422384]
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  • #1 20419733
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    Hello

    I don't want to start a new topic and I have a quick question if I can connect my 2 different sockets in this way, my main cable probably has no grounding and I don't even know where it is connected, so I immediately thought to make a bridge on this main cable and not to do it on the sockets bridge

    Moderated By krzysiek7:

    Separated from the topic https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2257479.html

    Attachments:
    • Connecting Two Different Sockets Without Grounding: Main Cable Bridging Inquiry 5CBDF706-642F-47EF-AB69-1ED3CF0E3E48.jpeg (1.85 MB) You must be logged in to download this attachment.
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  • #2 20419745
    Mateusz_konstruktor
    Level 37  
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    What is the layout of the installation?
  • #3 20419772
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:
    What is the layout of the installation?


    I do not know, it is in a block of flats, the installation is connected to a box somewhere, I do not even know which one, I just did a renovation of the bathroom and I do not remember how everything was connected, the only thing that remains in my mind is that the electrician once said that there is no grounding in this flat, so I thought that I will connect it as shown in the picture
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  • #4 20419783
    zbich70
    Level 43  
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    omaxp wrote:
    I don't know, this is in a block of flats
    Block has what administrator, manager? This one should know if his property is connected to the power grid in TN or TT.
  • #5 20419836
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    zbich70 wrote:
    omaxp wrote:
    I don't know, it's in the block
    Does the block have an administrator, a manager? The latter should know whether his facility is connected to the power grid in the TN or TT system.



    Everyone is connected to Tauron, now I've found out that some apartments have grounding in my block, but I don't know which one they will sit on, I'm only interested in whether my connection is good according to the drawing, because I'm not going to change the installation for the moment

    Added after 7 [minutes]:

    I only have 1 photo of connecting 2 sockets to this main wire, there you can see that zero is made right away, but I do not know now whether to feed it in the sockets again


    Connecting Two Different Sockets Without Grounding: Main Cable Bridging Inquiry



    The main wire is the one from above, and at the bottom you can see 2 more connected to it and 2 different sockets to them
  • #6 20420178
    ssllaawweekk
    Level 20  
    Posts: 393
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    omaxp wrote:
    my main wire probably has no ground and I don't even know where it is connected

    And how did you turn off the voltage on this wire??
  • #7 20420337
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    ssllaawweekk wrote:
    omaxp wrote:
    my main wire probably has no ground and I don't even know where it is connected

    And how did you turn off the voltage on this wire??




    It's probably connected to one of the fuses, I have 4 of them and one of them turns off the power in the bathroom when turned off

    Added after 4 [hours] 45 [minutes]:

    What can I connect it like this??
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  • #8 20421068
    zbich70
    Level 43  
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    omaxp wrote:
    What can I connect it like this??
    Don't move anything. Contact the property administrator.
  • #9 20422258
    szogun
    Level 23  
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    I note that in the bathrooms there was one socket from some circuit and the other dedicated to the washing machine on a separate fuse. This may be of great importance for your safety because I see that you describe the plus and minus in the socket.
  • #10 20422282
    zbich70
    Level 43  
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    szogun wrote:
    because I see that you describe plus and minus in the socket.
    Maybe it has DC power?
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  • #11 20422286
    ssllaawweekk
    Level 20  
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    Let it have 24VDC then it will be safer :)
  • #12 20422384
    Brivido
    Level 34  
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    In general, what you write in the topic is correct. If there is no other option, "zeroing" is done for now, this time separating zero into PE and N as soon as possible. That's why it used to be done at the sockets, and now there is a separate protective conductor, so as to minimize its damage / loss of continuity due to current consumption. It is also currently separated much earlier from wires with a larger cross-section, which is more reliable in terms of damage.

    This does not change the fact that you should know the layout of the network and the protection applied, because it may not be "zero". Judging also by this attached photo, I dare say that nothing is certain in this installation and some fern was rummaging in it and it is necessary to completely check and correct it by an electrician measuring. Probably then more things and errors will come out more important than the illusory security of this one socket.
  • #13 20424313
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    Thanks for the advice, however, I will call an electrician and let him check what is going on in these cables, for the moment I quickly connected it without zeroing, i.e. I had 3 wires, so I twisted each wire in the socket in its place, then I did a test with the meter: plus to the socket and minus to the pin and on the meter it showed 230V does it mean that there is already a zero on the wire somewhere before ??
  • #14 20424356
    Mateusz_konstruktor
    Level 37  
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    @omaxp
    In the current situation, check that there is no phase connected on the protective pin.
  • #15 20424628
    omaxp
    Level 10  
    Posts: 142
    Rate: 31
    Mateusz_konstruktor wrote:
    @omaxp
    In the current situation, check that there is no phase connected on the protective pin.


    I checked with the meter:
    Only the left hole in the socket with a pin gives 230 V, is this normal??
  • #16 20424685
    ssllaawweekk
    Level 20  
    Posts: 393
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    This left hole should cause the voltage indicator (so-called neon lights) to light up. Other pins in the socket, especially "Bolec" do not glow during the test with a neon lamp. Be sure to check the neon lamp in another working socket beforehand.
  • #17 20424754
    szogun
    Level 23  
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    Left with right is also supposed to be 230v.
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the inquiry of connecting two different sockets without proper grounding. The author expresses uncertainty about the grounding status of their main cable and seeks advice on bridging connections. Responses highlight the importance of safety, suggesting that the author should refrain from making changes without consulting a qualified electrician. Concerns are raised about the potential risks associated with improper wiring, including the need to verify the layout of the electrical network and ensure that no phase is connected to the protective pin. The author tests the voltage in the sockets, indicating a reading of 230V, which raises further questions about the wiring integrity and grounding. Overall, the consensus emphasizes the necessity of professional evaluation to ensure safety and compliance with electrical standards.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Expect ~230 V between live and neutral; "Left with right is also supposed to be 230v." If grounding is unclear, pause work and get it verified first. This FAQ helps tenants/DIYers decide what to check before bridging sockets. [Elektroda, szogun, post #20424754]

Why it matters: Bathrooms mix water and electricity; a single miswire can put 230 V on metal parts and cause shock.

Quick Facts

  • EU nominal mains: 230 V AC at 50 Hz. [IEC, 2016]
  • Bathrooms require RCD protection not exceeding 30 mA. [IEC 60364-7-701]
  • Do not link neutral to the protective pin at sockets; separation is at the origin, not in TT. [IEC 60364-4-41]
  • Washing machines often use a dedicated bathroom circuit on a separate fuse/breaker. [Elektroda, szogun, post #20422258]
  • A voltage indicator should light on the live hole; the protective pin must not be live. [Elektroda, ssllaawweekk, post #20424685]

Can I bridge two different sockets on one main cable if theres no grounding?

Avoid modifications until the earthing system and protections are confirmed. As an expert advised, "Don't move anything. Contact the property administrator." This reduces the risk of shock and code violations. Get the system type verified before any changes. [Elektroda, zbich70, post #20421068]

How do I find out whether my building is TN or TT?

Ask the building administrator or manager. They should confirm whether the property connects in a TN or TT system. Quote: "This one should know if his property is connected to the power grid in TN or TT." This informs how protective conductors must be handled. [Elektroda, zbich70, post #20419783]

My meter shows ~230 V between the left and right holes. Is that correct?

Yes. About 230 V between live and neutral indicates supply is present. As an expert noted, "Left with right is also supposed to be 230v." This does not prove the earth is correct or safe. Verify the protective pin separately. [Elektroda, szogun, post #20424754]

How do I check that the protective pin isnt live?

Use a verified voltage indicator. The left hole should light the indicator; the protective pin must not. First test your indicator on a known-good socket. If the pin lights the indicator, stop and investigate before use. [Elektroda, ssllaawweekk, post #20424685]

I measured ~230 V between phase and the pin. Does that prove grounding is present?

No. It only shows a potential difference exists to the pin. There may be an upstream neutral–earth link or a miswire. An expert urged a full check and corrections by a measuring electrician before relying on it. [Elektroda, Brivido, post #20422384]

Should I link neutral to the protective pin (zeroing) at the socket?

No. Do not bond neutral to the protective pin at sockets. In compliant TN-C-S, N and PE separate at the origin. In TT, they remain separate everywhere. Local N–PE bridges defeat protection. [IEC 60364-4-41]

Do bathroom sockets need RCD protection, and what rating?

Yes. Bathroom circuits and socket-outlets require residual-current protection. Use an RCD with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA to reduce shock risk. Test the RCD after wiring. [IEC 60364-7-701]

Should a washing machine in a bathroom have a dedicated circuit?

Yes. Many bathrooms have one general socket and a washing machine socket on a separate fuse/breaker. This supports safety and avoids nuisance tripping during high load. Confirm your circuits before reconnecting. [Elektroda, szogun, post #20422258]

What tool should I use to verify live, neutral, and earth?

Use a two-pole voltage tester compliant with IEC 61243-3 (Duspol-style testers are typical). Check for voltage between L–N, L–PE, and N–PE. This confirms phase location and that the pin is not live. [IEC 61243-3]

How do I safely verify a socket before plugging in a washing machine?

  1. Isolate the bathroom circuit at the breaker and verify absence of voltage with a two-pole tester.
  2. Re-energize and verify polarity: check L–N and L–PE for voltage, and ensure the pin isn’t live.
  3. Operate the RCD Test button to confirm it trips and restores correctly. [IEC 60364-6]

What happens if the neutral opens where someone bridged N and PE?

An upstream neutral break can raise exposed metal parts to mains voltage. This defeats protective measures and creates a severe shock risk. Local N–PE bridges are therefore prohibited in compliant installations. [IEC 60364-4-41]

I switched off one of four fuses and the bathroom went dead. Is that safe enough to work?

Not yet. Always verify de-energization at the point of work with a proper tester. Confirm which fuse feeds the circuit and ensure no backfeeds. If uncertain about the wiring path, stop and call an electrician. [Elektroda, ssllaawweekk, post #20420178]

Does the left hole always carry the phase?

Do not assume outlet orientation. The left hole can be live and will light a neon indicator, but installers may reverse polarity. Always test to locate the phase before connecting. [Elektroda, ssllaawweekk, post #20424685]
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