Controlling 200-600V 30-60A Solenoid With 5V Signal: MOSFET or TRIAC Alternatives?

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#1 21678899 07 Feb 2018 10:52

viktar pisarchyk viktar pisarchyk

Anonymous

Post #1
21678899 07 Feb 2018 10:52

I have been trying to design a way to turn on a solenoid, a really big one needs 200v at 6 amps. They way we have been doing it is a ssr with bridge rectifier after it.
Problem is it's too expensive at $70 a pop, and they like to pop so I was thinking of using a triac or a thermistor to basically make my own ssr with a rectifier built in only problem is triacs need ac to turn off and I want this to be able to work with both DC and AC. Is there anyway I could make a power mosfet work at a range of voltages from 200-600v at 30-60 amps reliably because the kick back from the coil would need a large diode. Or does any one have any ideas of how to control 600 volts with a 5v signal, cheaply and reliably.
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#2 21678900 07 Feb 2018 19:14

Rick Curl Rick Curl

Anonymous

Post #2
21678900 07 Feb 2018 19:14

Hi Viktar-Yes- it's certainly possible to make a device that will do what you want, but being able to operate on both AC and DC adds a lot of cost and complexity. Before we get further into this, let me ask a couple questions: First, Is it acceptable to have two devices- one for AC and one for DC? Second- what is causing the existing ones to fail? is it overcurrent, overvoltage, overheating, or something else?One possibility would be to use two IGBT's with internal inverse (copack) diodes. Connect the emitters together, connect the gates together. Use an optically- coupled driver. The two collectors go in series with the load and the power source. You'll need a transient voltage protection device like a varistor or big TVS diode.Take a look at ON semi's NGTB40N120S3WG (you'll need two).

-Rick
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#3 21678901 07 Feb 2018 19:57

viktar pisarchyk viktar pisarchyk

Anonymous

Post #3
21678901 07 Feb 2018 19:57

Hi Rick,Sorry let me clear it up, the way we power the solenoid is with a full wave rectified AC, there will never be straight up DC. So it always stays positive just bounces between 0Vdc and ~260Vdc. And this can go as high as 440v and on the rare occasion to 600v but we can ignore the 600v. And yes 2 devices should work. As for the reason they fail is because our current method for timing is clicking a botton very fast... And the ssr's and rectifier can only handle about 400ms of power as both are under rated. And there is no protection from the kickback no tvs diode or voltage suppressor.
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#4 21678902 07 Feb 2018 22:53

Elizabeth Simon Elizabeth Simon

Anonymous

Post #4
21678902 07 Feb 2018 22:53

Hi Viktar,
Too bad that the circuit I know of to do this is proprietary...
However there is a paper that gives some very good information. They are discussing DC application but you can use similar ideas for AC.
https://cdn.selinc.com/assets/Literature/Publ..._MeasuringImproving_Web.pdf?v=20151130-150058
Also this page shows another similar approach.
http://www.echola.com/power/Hybrid-Relay.html
The key in both cases is that you use an electromechanical relay to carry the current when you are not switching and the solid state components to prevent arcing on the relay when switching.
#5 21678903 08 Feb 2018 16:59

Conrad Mannering Conrad Mannering

Anonymous

Post #5
21678903 08 Feb 2018 16:59

Hi Viktar,Almost as soon as commercial thyristors were developed I started to use them as a form of DC relay for inductive loads. There are some elegant ways to turn off a standard Thyristor when conducting a DC load, its called capacitor commutation, which is where you have a second (off control) thyristor in a non latching load condition with the two thyristor anodes connected via a capacitor. link to circuit turn off types
This link explains with some elegance, how such DC turn off circuits for thyristors can be designed. I have used this type of turn off circuit for solenoids of many types up to 100 volt DC, so 600V should work. I have also found that they circuit works as a cathode version.Hope this is of use.Crusty
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#6 21678904 08 Feb 2018 19:24

viktar pisarchyk viktar pisarchyk

Anonymous

Post #6
21678904 08 Feb 2018 19:24

Thanks for all the help guys. I ordered multiple parts to try multiple ways of doing it as you guys suggested, because this could potentially not only work with my little test stand but if it works well, the lead engineer has showed interest in my concepts for using it on a larger scale. That will be major brownie points for me as a new tech.
#7 21678905 12 Feb 2018 19:58

Rick Curl Rick Curl

Anonymous

Post #7
21678905 12 Feb 2018 19:58

Great! Let me know if you need help driving the IGBT's. For protection you might consider a Bourns MOV-20D391K.
-Rick
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Topic summary

The discussion addresses controlling a high-voltage (200-600V), high-current (30-60A) solenoid using a low-voltage (5V) control signal. The original method employs solid state relays (SSRs) with bridge rectifiers but is costly and prone to failure due to under-rating and lack of kickback protection. Alternatives considered include using triacs, which are unsuitable for DC due to their inability to turn off without AC zero crossing, and power MOSFETs, which require robust diode protection against coil inductive kickback. A proposed solution involves using two IGBTs with internal inverse diodes connected in series with the load, driven by optocouplers, combined with transient voltage suppression devices such as varistors or TVS diodes for protection. The solenoid is powered by full-wave rectified AC, resulting in a pulsating DC voltage ranging from 0 to ~260V, occasionally up to 440V, with rare peaks near 600V. Failures in SSRs are linked to rapid switching and insufficient power rating. Additional suggestions include hybrid relay designs combining electromechanical relays with solid state components to reduce arcing, and capacitor commutation circuits for thyristors to enable DC turn-off in inductive loads. Protection components like Bourns MOV-20D391K metal oxide varistors are recommended for transient suppression. Experimental prototyping with multiple approaches is underway to validate these concepts for potential larger-scale application.
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Controlling 200-600V 30-60A Solenoid With 5V Signal: MOSFET or TRIAC Alternatives?

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