Grounding Requirements for Welding: Electrode and Welded Object Connections

Hello

How is it, I connect the plus to the electrode, the minus to the welded object and do I still need to connect the welded object to the ground?

greetings

You don't have to. There you have low voltage but huge current - so it won't kill you

I saw in a large plant a few years ago how welders welded electrically. Besterka 400 and over 200m of one cable. The other one was right next to the welder attached to the structure. I was a bit worried about large voltage drops (they welded the gantry with electrode 8), but it worked great.

So finally how? There's no need to ?

Hello, the output terminals of the welding machine do not need to be grounded.

Przetwornik wrote:

I work as an electrician and the mass is usually connected to some pipe, for example, the current at rest is small, about 5A, but during welding it increases up to 80A, depending on how it is set.

The mass of what is connected to "some pipe"? And how does this relate to the question of grounding the workpiece?
Answer to the question asked: You do not have to earth the welded object, especially since it would often be physically impossible. However, welding stations (tables) are connected to earth electrodes with equalizing conductors. And just for common sense, why do you need to ground a circuit galvanically separated from the network?

I would like to add that grounding the ground terminal would not serve the device because the welding current gets on the housing and interferes with the operation of the device (weaker arc). I had a case where the ground terminal in the plug of the device was heated due to the fact that the current terminal had a short circuit to the housing of the device.
Also, do not ground the output terminals.
Regards

It is also necessary to take into account the flow of direct current coming from the welder through possible grounding. Perfectly RUINS grounding elements. Always connect BOTH poles of the welder when welding, and do not ground them. Unless you're on the fence with electricians and want to spite them. But... a stick has two ends.
Regards.

OK, thank you very much

A simple example: the grounded ground wire in the welder, you connect the welder to a welding station with an extractor, if you connect the welder ground correctly, everything is OK, but if the ground wire does not have the correct contact or disconnects during welding, the welding current will flow through the ground wire of the welder and the wire grounding extractor, the effects can be guessed.

MARCIN.SLASK wrote:

I saw in a large plant a few years ago how welders welded electrically. Besterka 400 and over 200m of one cable. The other one was right next to the welder attached to the structure. I was a bit worried about large voltage drops (they welded the gantry with electrode 8), but it worked great.

In large plants, steel structures are usually galvanically connected to each other. When welding anything to the structure, it is enough to connect the mass "to some pipe" to close the circuit.
Sometimes the structure is used as a welding table.
Unfortunately, it happens that when the welder is damaged, the welding current sometimes flows through the welder's power cable and melts.
It is similar when welding connected electrical devices - there is a risk that the welding current will flow through the power supply and burn the installation. These are not frequent cases, but they do happen. I've seen a few of these.

Good morning, I have a question for you, I am asking for a pathological answer, what is the ground actually connected to (that is, the second wire from the welding machine), to what and for what purpose. Apart from better welding, does this matter for safety? Where not to connect ground?
I am planning to buy a welder for home purposes and for now I am getting acquainted with the theory of what and how.

Well I do not know. I just bought a welder and they clearly write to ground the item being welded or the work table. So the ground wire will actually be grounded. And if I have a plus ground, the "plus" will be grounded. What consequences this has, I don't know. Now let's assume that the welder has a breakdown and there is a voltage on the structure. Do I really have to weld ungrounded components?

You bought a Chinese product, and the instructions were written by a roundup dick. The welding machine's secondary circuit must not be connected to any conductive element of the electrical system.

Added after 1 [minutes]:

blomax wrote:

now let's assume that the welder has some

it happens then protection by quick shutdown will work. The welder housing must be connected to the Pen if it is metal.

Added after 44 [seconds]:

I don't know what not to understand here?

Strumien swiadomosc... wrote:

The welder housing must be connected to the Pen if it is metal

Damn... Not good. So how do I connect the welder in the cottage if I don't have a PEN in any socket?
And the housing is 100% metal, I did it myself.
For twenty-odd years in a cottage, I have been risking my life, my family's life and all my livestock?
V

vorlog wrote:

how do i have no PEN in any slot?

You Mi Tunie storms the thread. I am asking you!

Strumien swiadomosc... wrote:

You Mi Tunie storms the thread

This is not your thread
V

A friend welded the element in a vice. Vice screwed to a metal table. On the other side of the table is a grinder, decent, with a metal casing. So my colleague for a moment put the handle with the electrode on the table next to it, on which there was a column drill, decent. Getting grounded...sucks with happiness.

MCkawa wrote:

plus to the electrode, minus to the workpiece

And not vice versa?

wkondratgazetapl wrote:

MCkawa wrote:

plus to the electrode, minus to the workpiece

And not vice versa?

Usually not, but depends on the type of electrodes. You should have polarity information on the electrode package.

The 80s of the last century, Zakłady Mechaniczne TARNÓW, iron foundry, blasting chambers - such tin sheds, where the only electrical installation is lighting with several E40/1000W bulbs (yes, there were such and a turntable in the floor. How many times a team of mechanics/locksmiths put on a performance with (rotor) welding machines, where the welding machines stood in the welding shop, some 30m away, and the "ground" was connected to the nearest support structure of the conveyor belts and only the cable to the electrode was pulled to the crime scene, so many times the electrician team had to replace burnt wires in the shot blasting room. Sometimes there are also entire wiring harnesses of the conveyor belt system, arranged in steel tubes.
And the opportunity to win a bottle from the unfortunate delinquents.
Of course, no requests to bring the welder to the welding site and connect the "mass" locally did not result
V

I read and read these forums and I know that I know nothing. I wanted to learn to weld, but with my art education, I don’t think it will work.
I would probably have to precede the welder’s course with the basics of physics from elementary school. So the markets are going down. (I wanted to weld the container and the fence ... it’s beyond me cheba)

Take a visit (and a starter package, maybe a bottle or a few beers) to the nearest specialist locksmith, who even as part of his job welds something to the neighbors, but a specialist, not a garage tinker - an hour or two plus a concise conversation and you can already do something practice myself.
Not saints make pots, and you don't need to have "master papers" for your home needs, but you can start fencing after really longer exercises.
V

m4rc1nb0r3k wrote:

I wanted to learn to weld, but with my art education, I don't think it will work.
I would probably have to precede the welder's course with the basics of physics from elementary school.

For electric welding, in the basic scope, you do not need physics, but practice with a good master. The basic condition - trembling hands, good eyesight and sincere intentions. I know people who would fail on any so-called intelligence test, but they make welds that are subject to inspection by x-raying the welds.

A grounded table is asking for trouble. Especially when welding a device connected to the electrical system. In my previous job, a welder was creating a craft with a vibrator attached to a controller. Typically, the vibrator stood on rubber feet and at the time of making the correction, the protective conductor was burned along its entire length, because the ground was not connected directly to the welded element. There was an idea to make an additional ground cable that would be connected to the welded element, not through the table.
Generally, the rule is to connect the mass with the welded element in the place as close to the weld as possible.

MCkawa wrote:

Hello

How is it, I connect the plus to the electrode, the minus to the welded object and do I still need to connect the welded object to the ground?

greetings

YOU CAN'T.
Each welder has an isolated secondary circuit.