Elektroda.com
Elektroda.com
X
Elektroda.com

How to connect an electric stove?

sabcio_2 101496 27
This content has been translated flag-pl » flag-en View the original version here.
  • #1
    sabcio_2
    Level 13  
    Hello. I am asking for help in this matter. I bought an electric cooker without gas (oven, toaster, induction hob) with a total power of 9.4 kW, with the following technical data:
    Rated voltage: 230 / 400v 50hz,
    Heating elements voltage (oven: 3.3 kw, toaster: 2.9 kw, induction hob: ???)
    My question is as follows: How am I supposed to connect it to the home installation, whether by force (400 v, or 230 v, taking into account that I have 3 phases brought to my apartment, i.e. power, but each of the three fuses that they are in the staircase in WLZ has a value of 25A, so after conversion, there is no chance of using all the options of my cooker considering its power.
    I am asking for help, should I connect only to 230v, or how to do it?
    One more thing, if I had connected it to 230v. will I only have a certain part of the oven served?
    Thank you in advance for your help.
  • #2
    Lutek49
    Level 36  
    How many wires are brought out of the oven? After conversion, it turns out that with a power of 9.4kW and a 400V supply, there is a certain margin of power for the protection of 25A. The stove is not connected to "force" only to interfacial tension - you use two phases, not three.
    A simple calculation shows that the power of the induction hob is 3.2kW - if it is possible, you can connect each receiver to a different phase - then the maximum load of the phases will be in turn: oven (3.3kW - 230V) - 14.4A, toaster (2, 9kW - 230V) - 12.7A and an induction hob (3.2kW - 230V) - 14A. The calculated currents are rounded up.
  • #3
    sabcio_2
    Level 13  
    Hello.
    The following clamps are led out of the oven:
    -L1
    -L2
    -L3
    -Zero working
    -Zero protective.

    There are three connection options:
    -230v 1N-50hz
    -400v 2N 50hz
    -400v 3N 50hz.

    Please tell me what does "N" stand for?
    Please also tell me how to connect it to fully use the power of this cooker, for which I thank you in advance.
  • #4
    Lutek49
    Level 36  
    The letter "N" denotes a phase, so according to the description you can make connections using 1N - one phase, 2N - using two phases and 3N using 3 phases. Each of these connections makes it possible to use the full power of the device. For you, the condition that should be taken into account is the protection of individual phases at the level of 25A. If you have to use all three heating elements at the same time, the "reserve" of protection power may turn out to be too small. The device manual should specify what protection is required (fuse values). Since you can connect them - 400V 3N, you should make them like that. Connect L1, L2, L3 to the next phases and the working zero and the protective zero (if you have a force guided by five wires). It should work.
  • #5
    sabcio_2
    Level 13  
    Thank you very much. So to sum up, as I have already mentioned, in the staircase in WLZ I have 3x 25 A, so in the apartment I have to install a triple power fuse 20 A for each of the phases and it will run? Because I understand that there is no need to do an additional circuit ...
  • #6
    michcio
    Electrician specialist
    Pull the 5x4 cable from the home switchboard.
    Necessarily the power, at 230 V, the current would be 40A.

    PS: Cookers are rather not for phase-to-phase voltage, but for phase voltage, but due to the power, its individual elements are grouped, plus or minus, evenly into 3 phases.
  • #7
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    In order not to litter, I will connect to the topic.
    I have bought a new apartment. Unfortunately, there is only one phase.
    I don't feel like playing a gas cylinder and I want to install an electric hob and an electric oven. Theoretically, it is possible, but ... well. As someone has noticed before, the full power of the hob and cooker is about 9kW, which is about 40A! The security in the apartment is B25 A, and in the box in the staircase C25 A.
    Simple calculations show that the total power consumed in the apartment may not exceed approx. 5.5 kW. This is a ridiculous value with an electric hob. And what about the rest of the electric kettle? computer, lighting?
    A clever electrician proposed to separate the phase into 3 x B20 A and connect it to the stove with a 5 x 2.5 mm2 cable. They did this in all apartments in this block.
    Is it worth putting a disc and being careful not to turn on too many devices, or to give up and struggle with the cylinder for the rest of your life?
    Or is there any other option?
  • #8
    darek_wp
    Level 28  
    DoktorB - this electrician is really smart. Just where will he get these 3 phases. If it's from the staircase, you'll just steal electricity from your neighbors or electricity. And the separation of 1 phase into 3 wires and 3 protections results in its overload and if (and there is no other output) it is done after the meter, it will result in damage to the meter.
    The only solution is to contact the energy company and check whether it is possible to change the power system to a 3-phase and replace the meter. There is no other way.
  • #9
    tragi
    Level 22  
    I suspect that there are three phases per cage, only one is brought to your apartment. Ask ZE if it is possible to change to three-phase power.
  • #10
    tomtom77
    Level 11  
    and as for a colleague of DOCTOR B, he must apply to the electric plant for a tariff change, change of the meter to 3F and this is associated with quite high costs, about PLN 1000 minimum.
  • #11
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    tomtom77 wrote:
    and as for a colleague of DOCTOR B, he must apply to the electric plant for a tariff change, change of the meter to 3F and this is associated with quite high costs, about PLN 1000 minimum.


    I suspect the stove cost more. And since it is a so desirable device, then Doctor B. it undoubtedly siphoned off the remaining amount to bring the power to order.
  • #12
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    And in my apartment there is a single-phase installation in a C25A pre-meter protection. Electricians, anticipating the need for users to use a ceramic plate, gave a 5x2.5 wire from the distribution box and divided one phase into three, and each wire is individually protected with B20A.
    And here is the problem. Assuming a maximum load of three phase conductors, a plate with a maximum power of 10kW, it gives 43.5A. When dividing this power into three wires with a total cross-section of 3x2.5 = 7.5 mm2 everything is fine, but what about the neutral wire N? According to their theory, it should also have min. 7.5mm2. I guess you will need to add one N 6 mm2 zero wire.
    Or maybe they should protect each of these wires with B6A? Then the gradation will be maintained, because it will give a total of 3x6A = 18A. In my opinion, it should be like this, but for a three-phase installation, because in a single-phase installation it will allow a maximum of 4.1kW.
    And where is 10kW to pre-meter 25A? Where are the rest of the apartment?
    How to solve it? Who made the mistake? Whom to bring to account?
    I would like to add that there is no gas from the pipe in the block, so you will have to struggle with cylinders for the rest of your life.
    My guess is that there is no obligation to install a 3-phase installation in flats without gas. This means failure and learning that it was necessary to mark the allocation of min. 12kW.
  • #13
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    Thanks to everyone for the advice.
    Switching to a 3-phase installation is possible, because it will require (apart from the formal side and the meter) adding two 6 mm2 wires from the meters downstairs to the apartment on the second floor.
    Unless it is not very difficult to use the hob with attention to the maximum current in the apartment? Anyone like that, practicing and experienced in this matter?
    The small "burner" is 1200W, the large 2000W. If we are to limit ourselves to this system, we have 3.2kW in total. There are still 2.3kW of the allocated 5.5kW. It's a washing machine and something else. Considering that this 2 kW washing machine takes 10 minutes to heat the water and the risk of washing just before dinner is small, maybe you will not notice it at all? Well, accidentally forgetting yourself will make these 10 minutes is 9.59 too long. Over time, prioritization of devices will routinely become part of the life pattern, and there will be no problem?
  • #14
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    DoktorB wrote:

    Unless it is not very difficult to use the hob with attention to the maximum current in the apartment? Anyone like that, practicing and experienced in this matter?


    Exactly in this matter, it is enough to install a priority relay. And he will always remember.
  • #15
    Zapol
    Level 11  
    Buddy, write what is the power of the induction hob?
  • #16
    bartek0518
    Level 20  
    The fact that they separated does not matter because one phase is still loaded. The characteristics of the type B fuse are from 3-5 of the rated current, so it may only "blow" the stove fuse and not the main fuse, as long as selectivity is maintained. Try not to use power-hungry appliances such as a microwave, electric kettle, heater, washing machine with a stove or oven at the same time.
    A greater allocation means a greater cross-section of wires to your apartment, it is not only a change of security.
  • #17
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    I don't think I have a choice.
    It will apply to change the connection capacity from 5 to 15kW and in 3 phases. Pre-meter protection will be changed from 1x25A probably to 3x25A. Therefore, the load on a single phase / conductor will not change.
    The hob has a power of 9kW. It is powered by a 5x2.5 mm2 cable, so it should be enough.

    From the meter to the distribution box goes 3x6 mm2. And here the question arises: Can I adapt this cable to a 3-phase installation by adding two 6 mm2 wires, or do I have to replace the entire cable with 5x6 mm2? Laying the two wires will be cheaper and easier. It is enough to make a groove in the plaster to the thickness of the grinding disc and that's it. Or am I wrong? Is there any rule that the wire must be shared, or can it be caused by separate wires?
  • #18
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    The priority relay is good for electric heating. Then it works exceptionally well and gives maximum comfort to users.
    Installing a priority relay in the apartment on devices such as a washing machine, dishwasher or coffee machine is rather impossible. This is due to the fact that after disconnecting the voltage from, for example, a washing machine through a relay when the oven is turned on, restarting the voltage to the washing machine does not start it from the last moment. The washing machine goes into standby mode and requires a man to press the button to continue working. And this is a return to the initial state, which means no easier.

    I merged the topic. Please do not write about one issue in two topics. Point 10.1 of the Regulations. [retrofood]
  • #19
    retrofood
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    DoktorB wrote:
    I don't think I have a choice.
    It will apply to change the connection capacity from 5 to 15kW and in 3 phases. Pre-meter protection will be changed from 1x25A probably to 3x25A. Therefore, the load on a single phase / conductor will not change.
    The hob has a power of 9kW. It is powered by a 5x2.5 mm2 cable, so it should be enough.

    From the meter to the distribution box goes 3x6 mm2. And here the question arises: Can I adapt this cable to a 3-phase installation by adding two 6 mm2 wires, or do I have to replace the entire cable with 5x6 mm2? Laying the two wires will be cheaper and easier. It is enough to make a groove in the plaster to the thickness of the grinding disc and that's it. Or am I wrong? Is there any rule that the wire must be shared, or can it be caused by separate wires?


    You ask about such matters that it would probably be better for you to entrust this work to an electrician from the installation. Well you can not place the DY cables directly in the plaster. So, it is excluded to make grooves in the thickness of the grinding wheel. The cables must be inserted into a conduit, or a YDY cable should be used, in addition, it will be necessary to use cables with appropriate insulation colors. That is why I think that it is not worth saving a few zlotys and you have to put all the new ones, because otherwise the old ones have to be disconnected from the power supply and we will deprive ourselves of power, even for power tools and light. And I do not think that a cross section of 6 mm is necessary. 4 mm is enough.

    Besides, one note: for each kW of allocated power, you must pay. It is from 120 - 150 PLN. Therefore, it is not profitable to apply excessively, because you pay without need. Consider how many times you will need the stove at full power and whether you need to use other high - energy appliances at the same time.
    Or maybe it is enough to use a priority relay? I recently connected an induction cooker (without an oven), where the manufacturer only wanted a 4 x 1.5 mm cable for a 3-phase power supply. So maybe it is worth for an experienced electrician to calmly look at all of this.
  • #20
    DoktorB
    Level 11  
    The decision was made. I will apply to the energy company for a larger power allocation (probably 12kW) and to change the installation from 1 to 3-phase. The modification of the installation will consist in adding a YDYp 2x6 mm2 cable under the plaster. As for the colors of the wires, if there is no choice, the new wire will be marked with insulating tape in the appropriate color. This modification will only apply to phase conductors. The N and PE conductors will remain in their original colors, i.e. blue and yellow-green.
    Thanks to everyone for helping me make my decision. I hope that thanks to such a decision, maybe I will pay a little bit at the beginning, but for this I will have peace of mind for the rest of my life, and with "W" I can always switch to lower power or 1-phase without interfering with the installation. I can also always switch to a gas cylinder. However, in the case of selling an apartment, it will definitely be an advantage.
  • #21
    allblacks
    Level 2  
    I warmly welcome.
    I plan to replace the gas cooker with an induction cooker and thus get rid of the gas completely in the apartment. Unfortunately, 3 phases are necessary.

    What's the cost? - I will only add that the apartment in the block is on the 4th floor, and the phase from the basement in the next cage will be continued.
    Has anyone done such a connection and is the mess in the apartment big? What does it look like? - is it just a matter of running one wire from the counter in the hall to the socket in the kitchen where the hob will be connected?
    Please answer me because I do not know if it is worth having fun
  • #22
    cmepro
    Level 14  
    allblacks wrote:
    What's the cost? - I will just add that the apartment in the block - 4th floor, and the phase from the basement in the next cage will be carried out
    It's strange you have this pawn. Before the modernization, it was like this: vertically (from the ground floor to the 4th floor) there were L1 L2 L3 rails and on the first floor each of the 3 apartments was connected to the 1st phase. Recently, the risers were modernized and it was adapted to supply the apartment with 3 phases. As the experts told me what they did the modernization, in the case of changing the power supply from 1f to 3f, I only have to apply to the ZE for new technical conditions for connection, they will come, let a new cable go to the apartment and set up a 3f meter, the rest is my business, what will I do with it at home. Find out, maybe you won't have to pull the phase all the way from the basement, it would be much cheaper.
  • #23
    allblacks
    Level 2  
    except that they will have to go all the way from the basement, I found out in the housing cooperative, in which you have to submit a letter for permission. Only then to the power company. This is the state of my knowledge as of today.
    They are scary with the amount of about 3,000, hence my question, what do you know about the costs of such a connection and what it actually looks like.

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    I will add because it may be important - there are two apartments on the first floor. Counters in the hall, and in the stairwell there is nothing.
  • #24
    allblacks
    Level 2  
    today new information obtained:
    Consent from the housing cooperative, and also to PGE.
    at PGE I pay 170 PLN for each KW, regardless of where they connect the cable from.
    This price includes a connection to the apartment, replacement of the meter. The rest on your own - that is: new fuses, pulling the cable to the kitchen.

    And now a question:
    - is it all that running a new cable and one socket for an induction cooker and an oven into the kitchen? Is any more work necessary? More sockets?
    I am asking because we live in the apartment and I would like to prepare for some bigger demolitions and at an additional cost.
    - How much KW do I have to pay for? it means that only as much as additional equipment is planned for this socket? does it matter somehow?
    Induction is about 6kw, oven 4, - that is, for 10 kw to pay? more less?
    thank you in advance for the reply.
  • #25
    xisio
    Level 11  
    Hello,

    I have a basic question for you but prefer to ask not to burn the meter

    I have a new 2L board to connect, i.e. two phases.
    How to connect an electric stove?

    I have a can with strength and I don't know which cable is which

    I assume yellow-green is protective.

    How to connect an electric stove?

    I have an ac meter, I can set ~ 1000v on it

    How to find the individual phases and the neutral cable?

    My second question concerns finding the phase on which the remaining sockets are located.
    I read here on the forum to measure the voltages between the socket and the phase in the box. Should I put the cable to any phase and any hole in the socket (where is the phase) and check the voltages? what will be the 400v interphase, is it the same phase as there will be around 0, are there sockets on the other?

    Please, if you can, guide it like a layman.
  • #26
    mar_cik
    Electrician specialist
    My friend xisio , have you read the manual? Have you read the terms of the warranty? It is not written there that the connections should be made by an electrician with qualifications? It does not say in the warranty that the condition for its recognition is the entry of the electrician to the warranty card? Read and think.
  • #27
    xisio
    Level 11  
    I know about this record, but the truth is that it is also on the hood, oven, I do not know if it is also not on the dishwasher, plumbing and built-in work.

    The truth is that I have a can, a cable, I do most of the things myself in my apartment and I do not want to look for and pay an electrician for 15 minutes of work, which I will gladly do myself.

    When my hob or oven burns, I will find someone with SEP and sign the installations for me, the risk of burning is rather small ... Once I find the phases :)
  • #28
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    You are a layman, a complete buddy and for this reason you are dangerous to yourself, your relatives and household appliances.
    I believe that for this reason it will be better if you give up putting your ideas into practice and contact a competent person.