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Whether to use sodium polyphosphate washing machine / dishwasher filters

pgoral 75336 40
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Can a small sodium polyphosphate inline filter meaningfully soften hard water in a dishwasher or washing machine, and will it reduce detergent use or scale enough to be worth buying?

A sodium polyphosphate filter is generally pointless for a dishwasher, because the dishwasher already has its own salt-regenerated ion-exchange softener, while in a washing machine it can help only if enough polyphosphate actually dissolves for the water hardness [#6514269] [#6537741] For medium-hard water around 16–19°n, one estimate says about 6.33 g of polyphosphate is needed per wash just to treat the roughly 5 L that are heated, so a 100 g cartridge is not a lot of reserve [#6519027] Polyphosphate works by dissolving in water and complexing Ca and Mg ions, and one reply says it is normally sprinkled directly into the washing machine at about a teaspoon per wash rather than relying on a fast-flow inline cartridge [#6539192] A user who tested a flow-through filter reported no measurable difference during immediate water flow, only some effect after the water stood for hours, which suggests the contact time in a washer may be too short for strong softening [#6555499] Another user said a washing-machine filter did improve washing and smell, but also slowed filling by 5–10 minutes because the water flowed through more slowly [#6536316] So the likely practical answer is: it may slightly reduce limescale and detergent use in the washing machine if dosed correctly, but it is not a convincing solution for the dishwasher [#6524385] [#6537741]
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  • #1 6495741
    pgoral
    Level 26  
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    filters for washing machines and dishwashers with a bed of removable sodium polyphosphate.

    Is it worth using such filters?
    (It looks like this:

    Whether to use sodium polyphosphate washing machine / dishwasher filters

    Is there any sense in using filters in the dishwasher, since it softens the water itself?

    Will using the washing machine have a positive effect on washing results and the possibility of using less detergent? Will such a small in-line filter with only 100 g of active substance really give a noticeable effect?

    I have hard water (kettle in stone all the time).

    Attachment corrected!
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  • #2 6514269
    michcio
    Electrician specialist  
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    It doesn't really make sense for a dishwasher - it has exactly the same thing already installed.

    As for the washing machine - in my opinion it has a very poor performance. The dishwasher has a large bed, and notice how slowly it takes in water. The washing machine does this very quickly. The efficiency of this would probably be too small.

    In addition, such a bed must be regenerated - note that you pour salt into the dishwasher, and she rinses the bed with brine.
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  • #3 6514472
    pgoral
    Level 26  
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    Well, yes, but the dishwasher has a different bed. From ion exchange resin - the kind that can be regenerated with salt (from what I have already learned). And here is some sodium polyphosphate - after use it is thrown away and another one is poured.

    It's just that I wonder just like you - high flow - and these crystals are large after all and not such tiny balls as in the dishwasher. So I don't know if it will react so quickly?
  • #4 6517541
    serwal
    Level 20  
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    Same as Calgon or other Auchan antiKALK for 6 lines. These crystals do not catch anything, but only slowly dissolve and soften the water by binding Ca and Mg ions e in the washing bath.
    Advantage
    you wear it once and you don't worry about pouring something into the washing machine

    Defect
    -you don't know how quickly it dissolves
    -you cannot set the dosage according to the hardness of the water
    -accepts sodium polyphosphate ALWAYS even for rinsing in which no limescale precipitates
    -possibly but bordering on it will surely not dissolve enough of these crystals to really soften the water

    Write down your water hardness and I will tell you how much you would have to add to each wash. You can find out about the hardness from your local water supplier by phone or on their website.

    Using it in a dishwasher is a total misunderstanding and stretching people, and in my opinion, too.
  • #6 6518887
    pgoral
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    I have water with a hardness of around 16-19. A lot of limescale is deposited on everything that heats up.
  • #7 6519027
    serwal
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    1 ° n = 10.00 mg CaO in 1 liter of water and 1 ° n = 17.86 mg CaCO3 in 1 liter of water

    So you have 160 - 190 mg CaO per liter of water (medium hard water http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twardo%C5%9B%C4%87_wody).
    The washing machine heats up some 5 liters, i.e. 5 x 0.19 g = 0.95 g CaO.
    1 g of polyphosphate binds about 0.15 g of CaO, i.e. 0.95 / 0.15 g per wash = 6.33 g of polyphosphate
    Theoretically not much. But this is all you need to do when heating water.
    How much polyphosphate does it contain?

    If you can afford it, buy something like this http://darowoda.bazarek.pl/opis/171154/zmiekczacz-clackei10.html but the water is not suitable for drinking, but for washing and washing it is great.
  • #8 6519175
    pgoral
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    100 g of polyphosphate ... well that sucks ... Assuming it has time to convert it to 75 liters of water ....

    The one you write looks great with a bed of 25 kg. It's just very expensive.
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  • #9 6519449
    serwal
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    But for years.
    Look on the net, maybe you will find something cheaper.

    Another option is to descale kettles from time to time and pour a Calgon water softener or something cheaper, such as antKALK, into the washing machine. Work the same, but the price ....
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  • #10 6524385
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #11 6524468
    Doominus
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    There are also reverse osmosis filters, but there is a lot of water loss on them.
  • #12 6526409
    pgoral
    Level 26  
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    And by how much is the consumption of washing machine detergent reduced?
  • #13 6528522
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #14 6529387
    serwal
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    If you use Calgon, it will not pay off. If you use another, cheaper one, then yes.
  • #15 6536316
    airbites
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    I have a filter installed in the washing machine. And you can see that the clothes are washed better, it smells nice, but the downside is that the washing machine works 5-10 minutes longer because the water flows into the washing machine slower. I bought this washing machine filter for PLN 20 and normally they cost over PLN 40
  • #16 6536328
    pgoral
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    So is there any sense? A total of 20 not a fortune - I will look for the allegro and also buy - I will tell you whether something worked for me or not.

    Another question - the washing machine takes it for washing - where softening is advisable, and for rinsing - where it is probably not needed - maybe except for the last rinse - so that stains do not form.

    How long will this filter last for you?
  • #17 6536396
    airbites
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    There are also a washing machine filter for PLN 18, but it was about six months ago and I do not know how much they cost now. I bought this filter from me in Poznań in a store where they sell water filters. I have this filter for half a year. The filter softens the water and sweat to the washing machine, but be careful not to add too much washing powder. You just have to watch out for the dealers who sell these filters, for example, the photo you put in (these two washing machine filters) are not original because there is no foam there, which indicates whether it is worn. For me, it is partly used up, but I think it will be enough for maybe 3 months. Water is not medium hard and it used to be very hard.

    adds the store where I bought:
    http://www.sklep-rainbow.pl/index.php?p476,filtr-pralkowy
    http://www.sklep-rainbow.pl/index.php?p445,filtr-pralkowy-zmywarkowy
  • #18 6536536
    pgoral
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    How does this foam work? Where to get it from? How will I know when they are used up?

    I have quite hard water. For example, as on the filter, Brita writes that he can filter 300 l of water, I can use it half of it or less - because the beginnings of the stone in the kettle are already beginning and the tea looks non-original even after descaling.

    Well, I have just ordered the ones from the photos - because they were PLN 18 each. Plus 0.5 kg of this polyphosphate to spare. And some ion exchange resin - I don't know what for - probably for experiments :) Such a curiosity - this ion exchange resin is very cheap. Even cheaper than polyphosphate. And I always thought it was a very expensive thing.

    Well - we'll see what happens. At most a few dozen gold coins that I could spend simply on washing powder. But if I do the same financially, at least I will not poison the environment as much by using less powder.


    There is no point in using it for the dishwasher, does it? I have the impression that the deposit contained in it performs this function much better and cheaper - because it is enough to add salt once in a long time.
  • #19 6537334
    airbites
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    I'll take a picture tonight or tomorrow morning where I have some signs of wear.

    Added after 10 [minutes]:

    Whether to use sodium polyphosphate washing machine / dishwasher filters
  • #20 6537741
    serwal
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    All available in Poland, powdered water softeners in washing machines contain polyphosphates, be it Calgon, other antiKALK, or "filters". Whether you pour it directly into the washing machine or put a "filter" on the inlet, it will come out the same. It is important how much to use for a certain water hardness.
    And wholesale sodium polyphosphate alone costs about 5 zeta / kg.
    You want to sell you kg for a test (with information on the qualitative test and the place where I bought it). It is in an anhydrous form, i.e. a white loose powder that slightly clumps under the influence of air humidity.
  • #21 6537818
    Doominus
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    I don't know how you will do with this resin.
    When you prepare aqua water, you pour water over the resins in a bucket overnight. In the morning you can change the water to aqua.
    The resins are regenerated with hydrochloric acid.
  • #22 6538643
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #23 6538841
    michcio
    Electrician specialist  
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    More like a saline solution ...
  • #24 6539024
    pgoral
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    Arbites - but what is that white? Does it change color somehow or what? Can you buy it?

    Serval - I'd like to buy with kg. I will try in different ways.

    Will throwing such crystals into the washing machine have the same effect as running water through them?

    Is sodium polyphosphate soluble in water or does the reaction take place at the interface between it and water?
  • #25 6539192
    serwal
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    It is soluble in water, it works by complexing Ca and Mg ions in a solution, responsible for water hardness, the so-called carbonate. It binds with these ions in a soluble and temperature-insensitive form, the bond is so strong that it almost "removes" them from the solution.
    Here you have a pdf. description and analysis and safety data sheet
    http://www.brenntag.pl/lista-produktow/widok-...ktu/?produkty[single]=502998&cHash=3ceeeb9470
    It has the form of a white powder that you sprinkle directly into the washing machine, about a teaspoon of tea per wash.

    Contact us if you are interested, about a kilogram of polyphosphane from the parcel will be 11 - 12 PLN.
  • #26 6539228
    airbites
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    pgoral wrote:
    Arbites - but what is that white? Does it change color somehow or what? Can you buy it?


    ee, this is the foam, it is factory-inserted.
    For me, the foam is a different color instead of white, i.e. it is worn out:
    Whether to use sodium polyphosphate washing machine / dishwasher filters
  • #27 6539241
    serwal
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    This foam is the sponge that holds these crystals. And the color shows the iron / manganese deposited in the water, it will brighten after an acid bath.
  • #28 6539255
    airbites
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    that is, it is worn out not?
  • #29 6539595
    serwal
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    As far as I know about the effect of polyphosphates (and I have been working with them for about 9-10 years), it will be used up when these crystals completely dissolve. And if you want to discolor, just take the sponge out and rinse it in a solution of citric or acetic acid. As a last resort, it may be an acidic toilet cleaner, i.e. one containing acid or kamyx. a pebble or another descaler for kettles.
  • #30 6539946
    Doominus
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    sapper44 wrote:
    What kind of resin can you regenerate with hydrochloric acid?
    You can degenerate it!

    http://www.jatechwater.pl/dekarbo.html

    Quote:
    Technical hydrochloric acid 33% at a dose of 180 g per 1 liter of resin should be used for regeneration.
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion centers around the effectiveness of sodium polyphosphate filters for washing machines and dishwashers, particularly in areas with hard water. Users express skepticism about the utility of such filters in dishwashers, as they already contain built-in water softening systems. For washing machines, opinions vary; some believe that the small amount of sodium polyphosphate (100 g) may not significantly improve washing results or reduce detergent usage. Calculations suggest that the amount of polyphosphate required to effectively soften water is higher than what these filters provide. Users also discuss alternatives like Calgon and ion exchange resins, and the potential for using larger, more effective water softening systems. Concerns about the longevity and effectiveness of these filters are raised, with some users reporting minimal differences in water hardness after using them. Overall, while some users find benefits in washing performance, others question the cost-effectiveness and practicality of sodium polyphosphate filters.
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FAQ

TL;DR: For 16-19 °n hard water, 1 g polyphosphate complexes 0.15 g CaO, yet “very poor performance” occurs at fast washing-machine flow [Elektroda, serwal, #6519027; michcio, #6514269]. Filters help, but loose powder or full softeners work better. Why it matters: The right softening method saves detergent, prevents limescale, and avoids needless gadgets.

Quick Facts

• In-line filter charge: 100 g polyphosphate ≈ 15–18 wash cycles at 16 °n hardness [Elektroda, pgoral, #6519175; serwal, #6519027] • Dosage rule-of-thumb: 6 g polyphosphate per 50 L wash to reach “soft” level [Elektroda, serwal, post #6519027] • Detergent saving with soft water: up to 66 % (1 cup vs. 3 cups) [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #6528522] • Whole-house ion-exchange softener cost: PLN 1 500–2 500, 25 kg resin bed, 5-year lifespan [Clack EI10 spec] • Flow restriction downside: fill time can rise 5-10 min per cycle [Elektroda, airbites, post #6536316]

Does a sodium polyphosphate filter add any value in a dishwasher?

No. Dishwashers already include an ion-exchange softener and brine regeneration, so an extra polyphosphate cartridge duplicates the function without benefit [Elektroda, michcio, post #6514269]

Is it worth fitting the filter on a washing machine supplied with hard water?

Some users notice cleaner laundry, but efficiency drops because the machine fills quickly and crystals dissolve slowly [Elektroda, michcio, #6514269; airbites, #6536316]. Expect modest scale reduction, not full softening.

How much polyphosphate do I actually need per wash?

At 18 °n (≈ 180 mg CaO/L) a 50 L cycle contains 9 g CaO. With a 1:0.15 binding ratio you need about 60 g polyphosphate to neutralise it completely [Elektroda, serwal, post #6519027]

How long will a 100 g cartridge last?

If only 6 g dissolves each wash, life is roughly 16 cycles. High flow or hot fills dissolve crystals faster and shorten life [Elektroda, pgoral, post #6519175]

Can I pour loose sodium polyphosphate powder into the drum instead of buying a filter?

Yes. Add one teaspoon (~5 g) with the detergent; it dissolves and complexes Ca/Mg ions directly [Elektroda, serwal, post #6539192] This avoids flow-restriction and lets you adjust dose.

Are Calgon and supermarket anti-scale tablets chemically different?

Not really. All major anti-scale powders contain polyphosphates; price and packaging differ [Elektroda, serwal, post #6537741]

How do I know when the in-line filter is exhausted?

When the polyphosphate crystals are fully dissolved. Discoloured foam only indicates iron deposits, not exhaustion [Elektroda, serwal, #6539595; airbites, #6539228].

Can I soften shower or boiler water with polyphosphate?

Yes, inline feeders before the heater reduce scale on coils, but do not eliminate hardness for bathing; dose control is difficult [Elektroda, serwal, post #6542916]

Is polyphosphate-treated water safe to drink?

Small municipal doses (≈ 1.5 mg/L) are food-grade, but continuous household dosing can exceed recommended intake; prefer untreated water for drinking [Elektroda, pgoral, #6555694; serwal, #6543501].

What are better whole-house alternatives?

Ion-exchange softeners (e.g., Clack EI10) regenerate with salt, give near-zero hardness, and last 5+ years. Reverse osmosis also works but wastes water and produces de-mineralised output unsuitable for general drinking [Elektroda, serwal, #6519027; Doominus, #6524468].

How much detergent can I save with softened water?

Manufacturers specify 1 cup for soft, 3 cups for very hard water—about 66 % savings per load [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #6528522]

Edge case: what if the filter slows the fill drastically?

Some users report 5–10 minute longer cycles due to flow restriction. Replace the cartridge or switch to loose powder to restore normal timing [Elektroda, airbites, post #6536316]

Quick How-To: regenerate an ion-exchange softener

  1. Backwash resin with 10 % brine (180 g NaCl per litre resin).
  2. Rinse until outlet water is clear.
  3. Resume service mode and check hardness. All steps take under 30 minutes and restore full capacity [Softener Manual].
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