Charging Regular AA Batteries with Ni-MH/Ni-Cd Charger: Risks, Duration & Device Usage

Hello,
recently purchased a charger akumlatorkow "AA" (Ni-MH / Ni-Cd).
The charger charges these batteries without any problems, but for quite a long time (about 20 hours).

My questions:
What will happen if I try to charge it with regular "AA" type batteries, which is popular breadsticks
Can the charger be damaged
Do the batteries charge a little?
If so - how long do you need to load them
Will they be suitable for powering devices later? precise e.g. digital cameras :?:

I am asking out of curiosity ...

Hello
if you try to load "AA" nothing big should happen but you must monitor the behavior of this experiment at least the first time. The chargers are different, but nothing should happen to her (everything was working properly). The batteries will get some charge, but don't count on much. The rechargeable battery needs 1.5 times more energy than its nominal value in the entire charging cycle, assuming that we have 1000mAh, we should charge it 15h with 100mA or 5h-300mA. of course, loading times vary. If you intend to power decent equipment with such bastards, I do not recommend it. Regards

Leclanche cells such as AA, R6, R14, R20 etc. are irreversible cells. Although loading them may have an effect, the effect is slim. The capacity of such a charged cell is within a few percent for the first charge. Retry is almost ineffective.
A similar effect is achieved by a slight increase in the cell temperature.

used to load primary cells quite commonly
in books from the '80s it was a frequent topic, even in the elector from around '95 it was such a device
from what I remember, the highest efficiency of cell regeneration was obtained at cycle 0.9 charging 0.1 discharge, of course at low currents (50mA for R6)

I found a diagram and a description of a battery regenerator in the old "Young Technician", I don't even know which year it is because only this article survived the removal.
Article packed with RAR page in DJVU format

There are several types of "normal" batteries and they may behave differently.

The 1st Leclanche cell has ammonia as an electrolyte - it is formed in it when discharged
ammonia that is leaking; as more of it is formed, it pushes the electrolyte outwards
- that is, the battery is leaking;
The second improvement of this cell was the cell with possibly potassium chloride as electrolyte
- you gain so much that no ammonia is formed and it does not push the electrolyte outside,
in addition, these links are better suited to work with high loads;
3. another improvement is the alkaline cells - they contain potassium hydroxide;
must be well-protected against leakage, because the electrolyte is caustic.

All of them have manganese dioxide at the positive electrode and zinc at the negative electrode;
alkaline have a negative inside (powdered zinc) and a positive outside, and they are
encased to look like ordinary Leclanche cells.

If a hole is made in the zinc cylinder when the zinc cylinder cell is discharged, then none
charging it will not patch it up (and in addition, electrolyte may leak through it); and on
the second electrode is manganese dioxide if reduced to manganese
divalent, it cannot be re-oxidized - for both of these reasons
discharge is inadvisable as the changes are irreversible.

Another problem that will occur when trying to charge with a regular Ni-Cd charger or
Ni-MH is the formation of "dendrites" from zinc - it turns out that zinc has a unique
the ability to separate during electrolysis in the form of threads that make a short circuit
battery poles. This can be reduced a bit by charging with discharge pulses.

In addition, overcharging damages the cell.

Manganese-zinc batteries are produced, which have a similar structure
for an alkaline cell, but they differ in some details, e.g. less zinc,
which limits the possibility of excessive reduction of manganese; I suppose it does
separator between the electrodes, which hinders the growth of dendrites - they give up
charge up to 100 times as long as they are not over-discharging -
if discharged more, they will last for about 25-30 charge cycles.
There are special, precise chargers for them - an ordinary Ni-Cd charger destroys them.
Unfortunately, in our country they are more expensive than Ni-Cd and Ni-MH batteries; capacity they have greater
than ordinary Ni-Cd (eg R6 has 1.5Ah), but much smaller than the newest Ni-MH.

They have two important (for certain applications) advantages:
1. they give a voltage such as a Leclanche cell or alkaline - 1.5V;
2.very small self-discharge - they hold the load for several years.

And it is believed that there is no "memory effect" in them - only that this effect is attributed
mainly for Ni-Cd rechargeable batteries it is largely a myth - indeed, if
such a battery is discharged 100 times to the same level they create
there are crystals in it, and then after reaching that level there is tension; just
that the manganese-zinc battery is used up after 100 discharges, and the Ni-Cd
it is enough to discharge it 2-3 times and it will start working like new (and besides
the effect is difficult to achieve - requires high discharge precision, managed
it was really good on an artificial satellite where everything worked
according to the rhythm resulting from the frequency of the circulation ... and hence the "memory effect").
Two identical posts sent at different times.[h]

I have a handy schematic ...
If I make such a charger, does the usual battery charge me - a finger?

There is 4 file

kaczorek_wow wrote:

I have a handy schematic ...
If I make such a charger, does an ordinary battery charge me - a finger?

To my knowledge - and I have quite a lot - it is useful for destroying batteries.

The diagram is made in a bun - the author believes he has made a precise voltage source
reference, and it will really float. Really precise sources with a diode
The zener used a buried diode and temperature stabilization, but this is dated
technology - currently, thermally compensated transistor circuits are used.

But the more serious issue is how the batteries should be charged. I recommend reading
my study on this subject http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~jt/akumulatorki.html - today
I would probably write better, because I know more, but I don't have enough time.

Two very important things:
1) the battery should not be charged with direct current;
2) the battery must not be overcharged.
And the given chip does both, which is why it's a battery shredder.

(1) this applies even more to disposable cells and rechargeable batteries with an electrode
zinc - it has not been possible to develop such a construction of batteries that the electrode
"dendrites" causing the short-circuit of the electrodes did not grow, they grow slowly
with AC charging, and really fast with DC. The batteries are
they are more resistant to it than disposable cells, especially when they have electrodes from others
materials, but the short circuit of the electrodes is one of the most important types of their failure.

(2) as far as I remember it effectively destroys the manganese-zinc batteries they have
the same chemistry as an alkaline cell, so probably disposable cells too.

Special, precise chargers are used for manganese-zinc batteries;
do not count on the fact that any charger made will charge them correctly;
similarly, any charger cannot charge disposable cells.

Once upon a time at EdW there was a scheme for charging alkaline batteries. Based on some generator, eg NE555 with a frequency of 2 to 20Hz because disposable batteries cannot be charged with continuous current.

_jta_ wrote:

do not count on the fact that any charger made will charge them correctly;

According to a colleague, is "ready" chargers sold with rechargeable batteries (e.g. GP) a good investment?

Ie. are the chargers produced by different companies of good quality when it comes to the charging process?

And how do you tell a good charger from a bad one?

Unfortunately, the quality is different, many companies sell crap, and they convince buyers,
that these are good chargers, that others do it, and that destroy the batteries, and not theirs; sure
there is no good recipe for distinguishing, you could look at what specific information
the company gives about the charging process, and not believe in good parameters if
the information is general; if the charger is really good then the company can
specify which charging algorithm is used; charger for ordinary batteries
NiCd or NiMH should limit the charge - or by limiting the voltage
(this was the method used in the Polish LEMA L-1 chargers), or detect
end of charge, for example by "minus delta V" - and better in several ways.
You can still experiment - plug in a damaged battery, most of the good ones
chargers in such a situation signals an error (just Ł-1 not).
Oh, it is in the interest of the battery manufacturer that the chargers destroy them quite quickly ...

I used to charge the alkaline batteries there and they even worked well.

... and how many times did they charge before an internal short circuit was made?

When the batteries in the remote control fall (always in the evening), I connect the batteries in series and a resistor of several dozen ohms, connect them to the DC power supply (handmade 3-15V), set the power supply to charge with 200-300mA and keep it for half an hour until they warm up. Sometimes I finally buy new batteries, if I forget again, I 'charge' again (again ..) again ..

This charging is mainly heating the cell. The warm link will give up the remainder of the charge.
By the way, years ago I tried to charge a tablet from the watch.
The current was small and the tablet broke during charging anyway, until the remains hit the ceiling.

It's still good that it was not in the watch - it could tear the watch and cut your hand ... was this pill a mercury cell?

But alkaline cells are not much different from manganese-zinc batteries: they have a worse separator - so it's easy to
o internal short circuit; they do not recombine gases - so overcharging can cause electrolyte leakage,
or tear them apart; and have a worse housing - so it's easier to leak electrolyte even with proper charging.

Due to the risk of an electrolyte leakage, it is worth considering: how much will you gain by charging, how much will you lose if the electrolyte
will damage the charger or the device into which it is inserted - is it worth the risk, is the possible loss too big?
I have already repaired the charger to one friend, which was flooded with electrolyte, how he had put ordinary batteries into it by mistake.

Moderated By Dzimi:

I am closing the topic for good so that there are no longer any other memoirs and advisory posts.