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Siemens logo: roller blind controller, lighting – one button

bauzer1 7890 19
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How can I use a Siemens LOGO! with one wall button to control both lighting and a roller shutter, using short and long presses and possibly a twilight sensor?

Yes—use a time threshold with an ON-delay timer so a short press toggles the light and a long press starts the roller shutter motor [#7260071] One concrete LOGO! idea is to use I1/I2 as shared buttons: a brief press on I1 turns the light on, a brief press on I2 turns it off, and holding either button for about 1.5 seconds commands blind up/down [#7260157] For the shutter, the motor’s limit switches handle end positions, and the program should block opposite directions so up and down are never active at the same time [#7261095] For automatic twilight/clock control, one proposal was to use two timers to define three time zones, and to take the control signal after a decoder so only one output/function is active at once [#7262020][#7266873][#7292442]
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  • #1 7258315
    bauzer1
    Level 10  
    Posts: 7
    Rate: 2
    Hello!

    I recently acquired a Siemens Logo module and a cable. I’ve decided to use it to control the home automation system.
    As I don’t yet have enough knowledge, I’ve decided to ask for help

    I’d like the Logo to control the lighting via bell switches (I’ve actually managed to do this using a pulse relay)
    But how do I integrate this with the roller shutter if I want to use a twilight sensor? The roller shutter should also be controlled via standard buttons in the room, located by the window.
    The roller shutter motor has limit switches.
    And can a single switch be used for multiple functions? For example, if I press the button for a second, the light comes on, and if I press it for longer than 3 seconds, the roller shutter motor starts.
    Please help.
    Best regards
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  • #2 7260071
    *paweł*

    Automation specialist
    Posts: 968
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    Of course it’s possible. You need to use an ON DELAY timer and write a program consisting of just a few blocks.
    Let’s say that pressing the button once sets the timer and turns the light on; pressing it a second time turns it off.(A standard bistable function.) If you hold the button down for 3 seconds, you set the timer and switch on the motor.

    Best regards
    Company Account:
    Automation-Systems
    Domatków 36, Kolbuszowa, 36-100 | Tel.: 17 XXXXXXX (Show) | Company Website: automatyka-sklep.eu
  • #3 7260157
    Rafik4
    Level 31  
    Posts: 1108
    Help: 214
    Rate: 314
    I1 – light ON/blind up
    I2 – light OFF/blind down

    Q1 – light
    Q2 – blind up
    Q3 - blind down

    Pressing the I1 button briefly turns the light on; holding I1 for 1.5 seconds raises the blind. The same applies to the I2 button: a short press the light will switch off; holding it for 1.5 seconds will lower the blind. I didn’t manage to add the twilight sensor; I’m finishing the update.
    Attachments:
    • LOGO2.rar (8.72 KB) You must be logged in to download this attachment.
  • #4 7261095
    bauzer1
    Level 10  
    Posts: 7
    Rate: 2
    Gentlemen, thank you for your help. I wouldn’t have been able to draw up a diagram like this on my own.

    There are still a few issues left:

    During the simulation, I noticed that for Q1 and Q2 (i.e. the roller shutter up/down functions), you’d have to hold the button down the whole time. Would it be enough to insert another pulse relay there?
    How can I resolve the issue where, if the motor is rolling the shutter up, rolling it down is blocked, and vice versa(the roller shutter manual advises against pressing the up and down buttons simultaneously)
    And then there is the matter of the twilight sensor (I don’t have one yet but plan to buy one); alternatively, there is the annual timer. Do I need to enter the sunrise and sunset times manually, or is there perhaps a ready-made schedule?
  • #5 7261190
    Rafik4
    Level 31  
    Posts: 1108
    Help: 214
    Rate: 314
    I can’t tell you right now what you need to put in there to make the blinds open and close automatically; I need to test it out – it’s not something I deal with on a daily basis, I’m still learning, and cases like yours are great practice for me. It’s a shame that colleagues more familiar with the subject aren’t chiming in; we could learn something useful, but I get it – these days it’s all about the money; if you do it for free, you might get a punch in the face, nothing else.
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  • #6 7261394
    bauzer1
    Level 10  
    Posts: 7
    Rate: 2
    Rafik4 wrote:
    I can’t tell you right now what you need to put in there to make the blinds open and close automatically; I need to test it out. I don’t deal with this on a daily basis – I’m still learning, and cases like yours are great practice for me. It’s a shame that colleagues more familiar with the subject aren’t chiming in; we could learn something useful, but I get it – these days it’s all about the money; for free, you might get a slap in the face, nothing more.


    You’re right about the money, but maybe there’s someone out there who can say something on the subject.

    Rafik4, do you have any simple diagrams for the logo, or do you know where I might download something like that?
    I mean really simple diagrams, because the ones that come with the module are a bit unclear and quite complex for me.
  • #7 7262020
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    Guys, the thing about money is that when I was studying, I had time on my hands and didn’t need money to get by – so I was able to help out too. Now, I have to put food on the table for myself, and for my wife and kids as well. I don’t even have much time to pop onto the forum.
    So we’ll talk about these opinions in 15 years’ time, when you’ve got families of your own and have to pay for everything yourselves.

    As for your question, I’ve attached a proposal.
    There are two timers that define three time zones.
    Your task: add information to the display that will tell us which function will be performed if we press the button.

    I’ve sent a PDF because, since you’re learning, the practice will be useful to you.
    Attachments:
    • LOGO!Soft Comfort - Elektroda_jeden_na_cztery_wlacznik.pdf (14.06 KB) You must be logged in to download this attachment.
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  • #8 7266694
    jestam
    Automation specialist
    Posts: 1794
    Help: 210
    Rate: 144
    Rafik4, surely you don’t expect someone to drop everything just to help you? Your frustration that only two people (including yourself) have replied in the 10 hours since the thread was created seems a bit misplaced.

    On the subject: Arkady_pl, are you sure B007 should have its input negated?
  • #9 7266873
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    Quote:
    Arkady_pl, are you sure the B007 should have its input inverted?

    Indeed, it shouldn’t. Initially, I built a model for 4 outputs as an example, and then I simplified it; it was so obvious that I didn’t notice. A point for your keen observation.

    Gates B005, B006 and B007 form a decoder where the input is a two-bit value from the timing circuits B001 and B002. It behaves a bit like Gray code.
    http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kod_Graya

    If
    B001=0 & B002=0 => B005=1, B006=0, B007=0
    B001=1 & B002=0 => B005=0, B006=1, B007=0
    B001=1 & B002=1 => B005=0, B006=0, B007=1
  • #10 7266914
    jestam
    Automation specialist
    Posts: 1794
    Help: 210
    Rate: 144
    Task for learners: add two more timing circuits and expand the programme to handle them by increasing the number of inputs on B5–B7 and adding further AND gates

    :)
  • #11 7284226
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    jestam wrote:
    Task for learners: add a couple more timing circuits and expand the programme to handle them by increasing the number of inputs on B5–B7 and adding further AND gates

    :)

    I think they’ve been lost in the rubble ;)
  • #12 7287463
    edwaku
    Automation specialist
    Posts: 387
    Help: 45
    Rate: 110
    Is this controller really that difficult to program? Is it really so hard to understand that the whole thing is based on logic? That everything is based on NAND, AND, OR, NOR, XOR and NOT logic gates? Is it difficult to understand what the input states should be? (latching, pulse, frequency, or analogue (I7, I8)). Is it difficult that we insert function blocks after the gates, whose functions are assigned to the Q outputs?
    If anything is unclear, I will send you Logo! versions 5.0 and 6.0 in Polish, plus a manual in *.pdf format in Polish.
    If you are interested, please let me know by email.
  • #13 7287547
    jestam
    Automation specialist
    Posts: 1794
    Help: 210
    Rate: 144
    If these materials are available online, perhaps it would be better to post a link; in a year or two, someone might find them useful without bothering you ;)
  • #14 7287603
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    edwaku wrote:
    I will send you Logo! versions 5.0 and 6.0 in Polish, plus the user manual in *.pdf format in Polish.

    The programme can be downloaded for free, as can the manual.

    Software
    http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llis...lang=en&objID=10805245&subtype=133100

    Documentation
    http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llis...lang=en&objID=10805245&subtype=133300

    If you have a bit of a dig, you’ll find it.
    And links often become outdated because manufacturers change their websites and don’t maintain support for old links.

    Added after 38 [seconds]:

    Our version
    http://www.automatyka.siemens.pl/solutionsandproducts/1980.htm

    Added after 43 [seconds]:

    For your convenience, on the right-hand side of the website, the "Technical Support" table

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    Polish language pack – version dated 17 November 2009
    http://www.automatyka.siemens.pl/docs/docs_as/LOGOsoft-comf_6.1_Help_PL.zip

    And a link to the general directory
    http://www.automatyka.siemens.pl/solutionsandproducts/2932.htm
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  • #15 7288019
    edwaku
    Automation specialist
    Posts: 387
    Help: 45
    Rate: 110
    No problem! – provided you have the basic programme.
  • #16 7288870
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    edwaku wrote:
    No problem! – provided you have the base programme.

    After all, you can also download the demo version and apply the Polish language pack.
    Surely you’re not suggesting you’re giving away the paid version?
  • #17 7291465
    Rafik4
    Level 31  
    Posts: 1108
    Help: 214
    Rate: 314
    arkady_pl wrote:
    I reckon they were buried in the rubble ;)


    I’ll admit it straight away: I got stuck. I didn’t realise that the dots at the gate entrances meant ‘not’. After a few attempts, I got the hang of it and the programme started working. I’ve added my colleagues’ suggestions to the programme. Please check it and, if possible, suggest an idea for the next exercise.

    Thank you very much for your interest.
    Attachments:
    • Ćwicz.LOGO.rar (11.72 KB) You must be logged in to download this attachment.
  • #18 7291912
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    As for how it works: it works. Well done for your persistence in learning :)
    As for the diagram: not quite enough attention has been paid to the layout. It’s worth ensuring it’s legible, even for yourself. In three years’ time, you’ll struggle to work out what’s what because the lines overlap.
    By the way, you can use comments for the blocks. You can move them (the comments) and make your work easier by describing the blocks.

    Rafik4 wrote:
    Please check this and perhaps suggest an idea for the next exercise.

    Exercise – very important: extend this system to include the option to opt out of making a decision. So if the drop-down menu appears, you have no choice but to select something else. In the worst-case scenario, it will always be ‘fridge’.
    Come up with a way to return to the "roller blind" option – without releasing the button.
    And what if you want to cancel the on/off action altogether?

    Second version of the extension (in my opinion, this will be a better setup):
    - short pulses (under 0.5s) cycle through the options
    - a pulse longer than 0.7s activates the option
    - a pulse between 0.5 and 0.7s does nothing


    "Expert" version
    - short pulses (under 0.5s) cycle through the options
    - a pulse of 0.7–1.0 s sets the output
    - a pulse of 1.4–2.0 s clears the output


    "Business" version
    similar to the "expert" version but with the following additions
    - the selected function requires a "command" to set or clear the output, as well as an additional confirmation pulse lasting no longer than 0.4s and occurring no later than 2.0s after the command is issued.

    This is important because we do not want, for example, a child to switch off the washing machine
    It is possible to make things quite difficult.

    --------------
    For ambitious students
    - LIFT
    ground floor and first floor.
    one call button per floor,
    one limit switch per floor to indicate the lift’s position,
    two buttons in the cabin to request the destination floor
    (for enthusiasts, a proposal with a single button in the cabin.)

    Basic assumptions:
    - when the controller is activated, the lift may be between floors
    - we assume that nothing breaks down
    - we assume that the buttons are operated by mischievous children, of whom there are three: one on the ground floor, one on the first floor and one in the lift.
    - other assumptions as required.

    Added after 7 [minutes]:

    Rafik4 wrote:
    I’ve added my colleagues’ suggestions to the programme.

    One comment. You’ve used a certain mechanism in Logo that allows messages to be stacked. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing – I use it myself – but I just want to make sure you’re doing it deliberately.
    If I were to change the message priorities in your project, or if you were to create those messages in reverse order yourself, the display would show something other than what you would expect.

    If I were you, I’d use the signal after the decoder rather than before.
    The point is that after the decoder you have clean information, where only one output is active. So only one message will be active – not all of them, just stacked on top of each other.

    It works, it’s more about being aware of it.
  • #19 7292442
    Rafik4
    Level 31  
    Posts: 1108
    Help: 214
    Rate: 314
    arkady_pl wrote:
    Exercise – it is very important to extend this system to include: the option to opt out of making a decision is missing. So if the roller blind option is selected, you have no choice but to choose something else. In the worst-case scenario, it will always be the ‘fridge’.
    Come up with a way to return to the ‘roller blind’ option without releasing the button.
    And what if you want to cancel the on/off action altogether?

    I’ve added the message “End”; releasing the button whilst this message is displayed triggers no reaction, whereas holding it down longer takes you back to the start.
    arkady_pl wrote:
    If I were you, I’d use a signal after the decoder rather than before.
    The point is that after the decoder you have clean information where only one output is active. So only one message will be active – not all of them, just on the stack.

    Here, I’ve no idea how to implement this; what am I supposed to understand by ‘decoder’ – are you referring to gates?

    Thanks for the next tasks; I’ll work on something in my spare time.
    Attachments:
    • Ćwicz.LOGO2.rar (12.81 KB) You must be logged in to download this attachment.
  • #20 7292906
    arkady_pl
    Level 24  
    Posts: 574
    Help: 59
    Rate: 24
    Rafik4 wrote:

    arkady_pl wrote:
    If I were you, I’d use the signal after the set-top box rather than before it.
    The point is that after the decoder you have clean data, where only one output is active. So only one message will be active – not all of them, just on the stack.

    Here, I have no idea how to implement this; what do you mean by ‘decoder’ – are you referring to gates?

    Have a look at my initial posts (my second post); there I wrote which components are responsible for what (in my project).
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