Dealing with a Single Phase Outage and Malfunction Indicator on Meter

Hello, one phase is missing from me tonight. One of the three control lamps in the board does not light up, I looked into the box outside, I do not know what the fuse that broke looks like (these are the power engineering fuses on the connection), you can see a metal plate next to one - it means that this fuse probably broke It's sealed, so I probably need to call the power plant Question: what is the cost to prepare? Second question: there is a diode on the (digital) counter: failure, is there something wrong with the counter, does it behave like this in the absence of one phase? Is it possible to insert a fuse so that it strikes the "mine" and not the sealed one?

Added after 24 [minutes]:

and one more thing: can i use 3 phase devices now? For example, I have a 3-phase cooker, can I use it?

You cannot use the stove. Call the power industry to come and replace this fuse and, more importantly, seal the board.
There will be a failure on the meter due to, as you have noticed, a missing phase.

ajpier wrote:

You cannot use the stove. Call the power industry to come and replace this fuse and, more importantly, seal the board.

Thanks, I called the energy emergency, I found out that they do not deal with such failures (probably only "thicker" ones). I have to replace the fuse on my own (i.e. by an electrician dealing with the installation at home), and only a request for resealing is given to them. How much will this sealing cost me?

ps. "failure" remains, will they delete it during sealing?

I wrote that they would come and replace because I had {and it's not just me} problems with these grandfathers, such that the person accepting the application first allows them to be replaced and the professionals will only seal them, and when they came, they began to accuse that the seals were broken, it is not known how long and it was possible to drag in this time to the left.

Hello

In the energy sector, they said well, you replace the fuse (or an electrician) and report the sealing, and pay with me - Wrocław costs about PLN 80. An application is needed, but you have already done so.
Finally, why did the pre-numerator "hit", do you have selectivity or is it just a coincidence?
best regards

januszbe wrote:

In the energy sector, they said well, you replace the fuse (or an electrician) and report the sealing, and pay with me - Wrocław costs about PLN 80. An application is needed, but you have already done so.

hmmm, rather not, i.e. today only the energy emergency was working and they didn't accept anything, they just ordered customer service to call tomorrow (Monday) ...

januszbe wrote:

Finally, why did the pre-numerator "hit", do you have selectivity or is it just a coincidence?
best regards

what does "be selective" mean? If the phases are even loaded, then this is probably the problem, because it would seem that the new storage heater (4kW) was plugged into the same phase as the boiler, dishwasher, washing machine, kettle

It is enough to notify the ambulance and write down the time, date, etc.
And the selectivity is: in front of the meter there is 25A, below it is the circuit of 16A sockets, 6A lighting circuit. So less and less value. If you have everything on one phase, I propose to divide it into individual phases and there will be no trouble.

januszbe wrote:

It is enough to notify the ambulance and write down the time, date, etc.

hmmm, I notified, but "this is my problem" - I found out that the ambulance is coming to a power failure, eg on the whole street, so there was an electrician yesterday, the Customer Service Center accepted the notification of the need to reseal the meter, cost PLN 30 + VAT.

januszbe wrote:

And the selectivity is: in front of the meter there is 25A, below it is the circuit of 16A sockets, 6A lighting circuit. So less and less value. If you have everything on one phase, I propose to divide it into individual phases and there will be no trouble.

I have 3 * 32A fuses on 3 phases, unequally loaded, most likely, with this value getting lower, I have a problem because I have, for example, circuit I - 16A, circuit II - 16A, circuit III 16A, and I have 20 of these circuits, of course, not all of them are fully loaded, because I have, for example, a lighting circuit I, which has a pair of light bulbs, but this is probably not the point here, because all these circuits, if you add up after the protections, I get well above 100A, the problem is, that the new receiver (4kW) was connected to the already most loaded phase ...

As an electrician, he should measure the load of individual phases, maybe these 4 kW could be "pushed". If you plan to do something else, you should go to the ZE and increase the power

januszbe wrote:

As an electrician, he should measure the load of individual phases, maybe these 4 kW could be "pushed". If you plan to do something else, you should go to the ZE and increase the power

he should have taken the measurement, but he probably didn't (I wasn't standing over him all the time).
And I was just increasing the power in connection with this new receiver, about 2 weeks ago they sealed these new fuses for me ...

Bronek22 wrote:

januszbe wrote:

It is enough to notify the ambulance and write down the time, date, etc.
And the selectivity is: in front of the meter there is 25A, below it is the circuit of 16A sockets, 6A lighting circuit. So less and less value. If you have everything on one phase, I propose to divide it into individual phases and there will be no trouble.

It is not selectivity of any kind.

what then is this selectivity?

Bronek22 wrote:

By the way, replacing the pre-meter is not removing the seal from the meter.

the seal was removed from the box inside which these fuses are installed, on the meter I only had the "failure" diode lit but it itself went out ...

The selectivity of the protection operation means that in the event of damage to one of the installation circuits
only those with serially installed ones will work
which is closest to the security
damaged places, thanks to which it is preserved
supply to undamaged circuits will remain uninterrupted.

januszbe wrote:

The selectivity of the operation of security means ...

Thanks. It's always good to learn something new. Is the grading of security you wrote about sufficient to provide this selectivity? Ie. something is ringing me that the security should be 2 thresholds smaller to break it, i.e. 6, 16, 32? Is it true? In my case, it does not apply anyway, because as I wrote, I have most of the circuits at 16A, and the main 32A, probably the best would be to add 32A fuses to the switchgear, so that it would break out in the switchgear, not in the box outside ... it is so inconvenient that if I would like to apply for an increase in power, I would also have to replace these fuses in the switchboard. What do you think about it?

karol76 wrote:

Quote:

Thanks. It's always good to learn something new.

You did not learn anything new, because Col. Januszbe is uninformed.

Quote:

The selectivity of the protection operation means that in the event of damage to one of the installation circuits
only those with serially installed ones will work

The circuit fault condition is not the same as the load in the circuit - you write about the fault - so about a short circuit.

Quote:

And the selectivity is: in front of the meter there is 25A, below it is the circuit of 16A sockets, 6A lighting circuit. So less and less value.

You don't seem to know anything about selectivity, but you do know a bit about security grading. The selectivity of overcurrent protection and the selectivity of short-circuit protection is something completely different, but getting both the way you described is something.

Akrzy74 wrote:

karol76 wrote:

Quote:

Thanks. It's always good to learn something new.

You did not learn anything new, because Col. Januszbe is uninformed.

echhh, maybe one of you will finally write what it is, because so far two people wrote that "this is not what januszbe writes about" but they did not correct it, unless it is not to be explained with "one sentence" It is difficult, somehow I lived with this ignorance so far ...

Basic question - the type and type of protection that turned off the circuit (it is sealed), and what is the protection of the circuit on which it "hangs": a new storage stove (4kW), boiler, dishwasher, washing machine, kettle.

Quote:

maybe one of you will finally write what it is, because so far two people wrote that "this is not what Januszbe writes about" but they did not correct it,

I wrote:

Quote:

The selectivity of overcurrent protection and the selectivity of short-circuit protection is something completely different

Therefore, one should ask the question - what kind of selectivity do we expect, because without affecting the main (sealed) protection, it is difficult to obtain selectivity against overloads and short-circuits - especially since the connector has Bm gF networks with low short-circuit current), or Bi-Wts, or eSki - here is the problem.
Without a specific network / installation layout, the discussion is pointless.

Akrzy74 wrote:

Basic question - the type and type of protection that turned off the circuit (it is sealed), and what is the protection of the circuit on which it "hangs": a new storage stove (4kW), boiler, dishwasher, washing machine, kettle.

I'm giving up i.e. I can not describe it in a formal way, I can only write that the stove has its own protection, the boiler, washing machine and kettle - in general, the kitchen and bathroom are theirs, all 16A, those mounted on a rail, which fall when overloaded and can then be lifted and works again (I know, I know, very technical description ), were connected to one phase, on which, in principle, there were no other protections, i.e. it from the distribution board (which also has a differential, surge voltage, switch) goes directly to the box with a 32A fuse for this phase - fuse, i.e., when it was overloaded, the wire burned (in the form of such a block) ...

Akrzy74 wrote:

selectivity for overloads and short-circuits - especially since the connector has Bm gF (fast insert - used in household installations, wide-area-rural networks with low short-circuit current), or Bi-Wts, or eSki - here is the problem.
Without a specific network / installation layout, the discussion is pointless.

I can see that the topic is much deeper than it first thought thanks for your comments.

There is no need to ponder too much. You have to distribute the load evenly over all phases and not all "current eaters" on the same phase. If you have a boiler, washing machine, dishwasher, kettle, storage heater on one phase, what do you have on the others? Only lighting?

karol76 wrote:

Quote:

I can't describe it in a formal way,

Nobody (at least not me) requires you to express yourself in a technical manner with the applicable terminology. I require this from people "prompting" (giving advice) - as I understand it - electricians.

stomat wrote:

There is no need to ponder too much. You have to distribute the load evenly over all phases and not all "current eaters" on the same phase. If you have a boiler, washing machine, dishwasher, kettle, storage heater on one phase, what do you have on the others? Only lighting?

It just so happens that I have these "devourers" mainly in the kitchen and bathroom, but I did not think about dedicating a socket for the kettle, fortunately the boiler has a dedicated circuit, the boiler has been postponed to another phase, and I also have 3 other stoves (in including one 3-phase) and an electric floor (about 2.5-3 kW in total), so the new stove was plugged in quite unfortunately, but I did not even think to ask the electrician about it when he connected this new stove, he counted the load and It turned out that these 3 * 32A fuses will be enough (but he probably has not measured it yet).
Anyway, the fuses have been replaced, resealed, I hope nothing will happen now :-)

If I could still ask you to clarify two issues:
1. someone here advised not to use the stove with this fuse blown, what can happen? Can the oven break? I am asking, because let's say I control the stove, but the stove is loaded when it needs to, and I would not like it to be damaged if something like this happened again -> this would be a reason for me to consider applying for additional power and adding these protections in switchboard + I saw something like phase failure sensors in the catalog, then I would ask an electrician to install something like this (I understand that such a device is able to disconnect some other device in the event of a phase failure)
2. How does the energy meter behave in the event of a phase failure? Keeps counting correctly?

The phase loss controller shows that the L1 or L2 or L3 phase is missing and disconnects the device, most often used to protect the motors.
Or maybe a priority switch ??. This device allows the use of electric devices of higher power, such as a flow water heater or an electric boiler, in installations that could not be additionally loaded without it. The operation of the priority switch is based on the fact that when, for example, a flow water heater is turned on, the switch automatically turns off the accumulation or floor heating for the duration of the operation of the device turned on with priority - in this case, the flow water heater. A device of this type costs about PLN 70.
Or the aumatic phase switch is used to maintain the continuity of power supply to single-phase receivers in the event of a loss of the supply phase or the bottom of its parameters below the standard cost about PLN 200

januszbe wrote:

The phase loss controller shows that the L1 or L2 or L3 phase is missing and disconnects the device, most often used to protect the motors.

If a phase failure can damage my stove or stove, I will seriously think about something like that, I will try to contact the manufacturer next week, maybe something will become clear ...

januszbe wrote:

Or maybe a priority switch ??.

rather not, i.e. I would not like to give up 2 hours of cheaper tariff, just because my water is warm, if the problem repeats, I will call my electrician to measure it and I will apply for the allocation of additional power at most ...