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Pre-meter protection in an old block from 16A to 25A and the electricity supplier

prezesonline 18549 12
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  • #1 16026890
    prezesonline
    Level 11  
    The building has the so-called aluminum installation, whatever that means to me as a layman (the building is over half a century old).
    During the general renovation, I completely replaced the electrical installation in the apartment, the electrician treated the new wires as "future-proof" and I am even prepared for a 3-phase installation if something were to change someday.
    BUT everything is the same on the staircase. There are two electricity pipes running from my floor to the ground floor through all the apartments on this wall.
    There is a cabinet on the ground floor with 12 fuses, most or all of them 25A.
    However, there are fewer fuses than apartments in the building.
    From this cabinet, the electricity goes to the second staircase where there is a main switch and a switchboard.

    I moved the counter from the apartment to the staircase. There is a 16A fuse in a separate cabinet, it is a cap that has not been sealed yet.

    My electricity supplier generally seals meters and "pre-meter protection".
    However, the installation electrician claims that they will come, seal the relocated meter, and put an end to the traffic jam.

    The electrician wants to change the 16A fuse to 20A or 25A.
    My installation is single-phase, power limit is 5kW.

    I call the electricity supplier`s customer service and they inform me that I can change the fuse to a maximum of 25A, because I supposedly can, since I have an "allotment" of 5kW in their system.

    Questions:
    1. What can mean that I have a 16A cap and may have a 25A cap? Is it because the cap is old and the power limits may have changed over the years?
    2. The electrician advises that it is best to replace the cap after they come to seal the meter.
    OK, the cap has no seals, but the question is - is there a risk that, for example, it will blow the caps on the entire staircase to other neighbors if I consume the contractual 5kW at a given moment?
    3. I am concerned about the traffic jams in the switchboard on the ground floor - does it happen in old buildings, for example, that two apartments are connected to one traffic jam 25A? Or maybe this switchboard has all these traffic jams for all apartments together? It`s strange that there are 12 traffic jams and 20 apartments. And why do traffic jams there, if there is a locker next to each apartment and everyone there also has a traffic jam.

    I am interested in doubts because I want to buy a plug & play 1-phase induction hob with a power of 3700 kW.
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  • #2 16026898
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist
    I am a bit surprised that the transfer, i.e. change of the meter`s location, took place without prior notification to the local RDE.
    The electrician was so confident that he acted without looking at anything?
    As for pre-meter protection and reduced denominations, the building owner protected his back and installed smaller ones due to the condition of the existing, poor installation supplying individual residential premises.
  • #3 16026939
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    prezesonline wrote:
    I moved the counter from the apartment to the staircase


    Where do the neighbors have their meters?
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  • #4 16026956
    lechm56
    Moderator
    prezesonline wrote:
    I am interested in doubts because I want to buy a plug & play 1-phase induction hob with a power of 3700 kW.

    This guy clearly exaggerated with this power!
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  • #5 16028670
    CYRUS2
    Level 43  
    prezesonline wrote:
    1. What can mean that I have a 16A cap and may have a 25A cap? Is it because the cap is old and the power limits may have changed over the years?
    ZE decides how much power it can provide so as not to lower the voltage of its neighbors. ZE charges a fee for increasing power.
    prezesonline wrote:
    I am interested in doubts because I want to buy a plug & play 1-phase induction hob with a power of 3700 kW.
    If you use a board on one phase, not much power will be available. If your friend has an installation prepared for 3 phases, you need to apply to the Energy Regulatory Office for conditions for 3 phases.
    Ps. Not a "plug", just a fuse.
  • #6 16028763
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    prezesonline wrote:
    The electrician wants to change the 16A fuse to 20A or 25A


    Is this pre-meter protection? :?: Enter the type of this security. It seems to me that these are fuse links and the 16A could have ended up there accidentally "because there was one at hand", but these are just guesses.

    prezesonline wrote:
    3. I am concerned about the traffic jams in the switchboard on the ground floor - does it happen in old buildings, for example, that two apartments are connected to one traffic jam 25A? Or maybe this switchboard has all these traffic jams for all apartments together? It`s strange that there are 12 traffic jams and 20 apartments. And why do traffic jams there, if there is a locker next to each apartment and everyone there also has a traffic jam.


    What does your electrician say? :?: after all, he was moving the TL, maybe he did it under voltage without turning off the power :?:

    prezesonline wrote:
    because I want to buy a 1-phase plug & play induction hob with a power of 3700 kW


    I don`t know where you`ll find one, but even if it does, it will eliminate all the "traffic jams" in the building :D induction rather 3700W or 3.7kW ;)
  • #7 16028783
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    4kW is only 18A on one phase and the starting current of the board is the same as the operating current.
  • #8 16028807
    mawerix123
    Level 39  
    @Stream of consciousness and 3700kW, as the author declares, how many amperes there will be :?:
  • #9 16028917
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    prezesonline wrote:
    However, the installation electrician claims that they will come, seal the relocated meter and put an end to the traffic jam.

    The issue has already been raised by my colleague "elpapiotr", so I will ask. And what if they add a few thousand fines, the electrician will also be so good-natured and will pay the money.
  • #10 16038654
    prezesonline
    Level 11  
    Krzysztof Reszka wrote:
    . What will happen if they get a few thousand fines?

    But what is the punishment for?
    Let me explain once again: for pre-meter protection, I had a cork (that`s what the electrician calls it, because it`s an old cork embedded in a larger cork, so to speak) 16A.
    I called RWE to ask why I had 16A when it was supposedly 16x230=3680 and meanwhile the contractual limit of the maximum power consumed was 5kW.
    The lady at the hotline, when I asked about increasing the fuse, said that I could change 16A to 20A or a maximum of 25A. I even asked for this lady`s details just in case.
    I asked her why, when I applied for conditions for a 3-phase installation with a power of 13 kW, I was also supposed to have 25A pre-meter - the lady couldn`t answer, but she confirmed once again that even if I stay on phase 1, I can have a maximum of 25A.
    The electrician actually talked about 2 options. Option 1: leave this 16A plug, have them seal the relocated meter and only then replace it with 25A.
    In response to my protest that something was wrong, the next day the electrician changed his mind, told me to buy a more modern 25A "snap cap" fuse in the supermarket, where you turn the current on/off with a pusher and screwed it in instead of the old 16A one, and told me to arrange sealing.
    mawerix123 wrote:
    What does your electrician say? :?: after all, he was moving the TL, maybe he did it under voltage without turning off the power :?:

    The pre-meter fuse is located in the corridor in the fuse box that every apartment has next to its entrance door.
    The electrician did not disconnect the power supply to the staircase (to other neighbors).
    To move the meter, he unscrewed the 16A "plug" in the cabinet next to the entrance door (thus cutting off the electricity in the meter). He replaced the cable from the fuse to the meter with a new one and placed the meter in the corridor in the new box. There is also a new cable from the moved meter to the apartment, where there is a new apartment switchboard and more internal fuses.
    The electrician claims that when RWE comes to seal the meter, they will only seal the meter and will not seal the "cork", contrary to the documents ("the meter protection is to be adapted for sealing"), as it has not been sealed so far.
    Theoretically, neighbors can replace these "plugs" at any time as they wish, they even closed the fuse cabinets with their own padlocks. :) )
    I will add that it is not a tenement house, but a small block of flats over half a century old, although the press calls us "tenement houses", it is a Gomółka creation.

    What puzzles me the most: in the block there are 2 staircases with 18 apartments each, in one of them there is a gigantic "main power switch", to my staircase there is a "staircase switchboard" from the main switchboard, there are 25A fuses in it (some signed as "premises no. Is it possible that, for example, two apartments are connected with one 25A fuse in this "staircase switchboard" (since there are maybe 12 of them and 18 apartments) or that it is a set of a dozen or so fuses common to all apartments in the staircase and the current would go out if everyone started sharply? consume electricity, totaling more than the limit of this set of fuses?
    elpapiotr wrote:
    I am a bit surprised that the transfer, i.e. change of the meter`s location, took place without prior notification to the local RDE.

    No, first I submitted a letter to RWE "report regarding the meter" and over the phone RWE gave consent to remove the seals and move the meter to the staircase as part of the renovation.
    Strumien swiadomosc... wrote:
    Where do the neighbors have their meters?

    Some people still have meters in their apartments, and neighbors who had renovations like mine moved the meters to the staircase (for this convenience, the supplier even waives the sealing fee).

    Ultimately, I will probably choose the Electrolux induction hob with the FlexiPower function, where the power can be programmed every 500W to any limit, e.g. 2000W, 3500W (I will probably set this much because in the distribution box in the apartment I have a separate fuse for induction, 16A, three-phase, which will ultimately work in a single-phase system), up to a maximum of over 7kW.
    This is a good induction because in the event of any replacement of the installation in the block or transfer of the hob to another premises, I just change the program and the hob can run at 7kW, and e.g. Amica for 230V has a permanent limit of 3700 with a hook.
  • #11 16038674
    zbich70
    Level 43  
    prezesonline wrote:
    I will add that it is not a tenement house, but a small block of flats over half a century old, although the press calls us "tenement houses", it is a Gomółka creation.

    Does this "Gomółka creation" have an owner, manager or administrator?
    Maybe there is a community, cooperative, etc.?
    Is the off-premises installation your property? If not, whose, because it must be someone`s.
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  • #13 16039497
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering
    prezesonline wrote:
    No, first I submitted a letter to RWE "report regarding the meter" and over the phone RWE gave consent to remove the seals and move the meter to the staircase as part of the renovation.

    Well, I should have written it at the beginning, that`s how it is when you provide not all the information. There is consent and everything, just report the sealing.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the challenges of pre-meter protection in an aging building with aluminum wiring. The user has replaced the electrical installation in their apartment but faces issues with the staircase's wiring and the main fuse cabinet, which contains 25A fuses but fewer than the number of apartments. The user moved their electricity meter to the staircase, where a 16A fuse is present, raising concerns about compliance and power limits. Responses highlight the importance of notifying the local energy regulatory body about meter changes, the implications of pre-meter protection, and the need for proper power allocation to avoid voltage drops. The user is advised to consult with their electrician and the energy supplier regarding the maximum allowable fuses and potential upgrades to a 3-phase installation.
Summary generated by the language model.
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