Unannounced Electricity Meter Replacement by Energy Company Employee: Is it Permissible?

Question

I have a question: can an energy company employee replace the meter on his own, without the recipient's knowledge (i.e. me)? Today there was a very (unpleasant for me) strange situation, when I was returning home, when I noticed that in the place where the meter was (there is) (the meters in...

www · Answer

The electricity meter is owned by ZE, so they can replace it whenever they want.

=Grzegorz= · Answer

Maybe in special cases, e.g. in the tariff for individual recipients, it is possible to replace them without their presence, of course, a protocol is written (in the EV the original and a copy should be received by mail).
If they detected something on the old meter, they would not replace it, but arrange a check in your presence. Now, after the replacement, they will not do anything to you, even if someone discovered that the old meter was combined.

Enjoy your new accurate electronic counter

Anonymous · Answer

Unfortunately not. The energy law says otherwise.

With what condition was the old counter removed? Someone signed that what the fitters wrote in the protocol was true? Since when is the contract concluded by only one party?

zbich70 · Answer

There is not a word about it in the energy law. But it is here Link It does not follow from this provision that the exchange must take place in the presence of the recipient, nor that this document must be signed. The method of issuing the document is also not precise, so you can practically leave it in a counter cabinet, letterbox or stick it in the door

dawtepl · Answer

Exactly - right. The agreement is bilateral. Not only that - it is possible that you did not get a completely new meter, but only a recovered meter, after legalization. Then there is a certain amount of kWh from the previous owner loaded on it. And now YOU have to sign the condition from the old meter as well as the one you received. Because theoretically, they can (intentionally or not) charge you with a very large amount of energy. They seem to take pictures of the meters downloaded, but who knows them there.

=Grzegorz= · Answer

YES exactly and it is not the fault of some EU directive, the number of which I do not remember. So you can get a fully functional used meter with tens of thousands of kilowatts on the abacus and everything is OK

chiquita24 · Answer

Well, I have no idea. The counter was replaced in my absence. I have neither any replacement protocol nor even any information that the meter has been replaced.

Anonymous · Answer

Because you got too far, buddy. Start with article 6 of the Energy Law. We will deal with the regulation later. Unfortunately, neither the building owner nor the contract owner were informed about the activities. This is breaking the law. And with the subject, what is the problem to inform the other party of the contract about the activities? Why is the only solution in this country to make others' lives pleasant?

=Grzegorz= · Answer

Let's deal specifically, I will ask for quotes ... By the way, I do not understand who it bothers and why to do the problem when it is not there.

karolq · Answer

The meter may be removed without the recipient's knowledge, but only in specific cases. When replacing the meter, the protocol is described in duplicate. The original goes to the plant, the copy for the recipient (usually by mail). I personally try to arrange with the owner, but it is not always possible, then, with the consent of the owner, other people who sign the protocol may be present at the exchange.

Oh, and the states are available for inspection at the emergency department in your area.

In summary, the fitters could inform about the replacement, but if they had access, they replaced it without the owner knowing.

=Grzegorz= · Answer

The example from Białystok shows that it can be replaced, similarly, we have been exchanging such meters for a long time. Therefore, I would like to ask you to provide specific records ...

Anonymous · Answer

Me, fart. Such laziness already reigns here? Article 6.1 (2).

zbich70 · Answer

This article uses the following keyword: control . Let's not overinterpret the law because we will fall into paranoia - legalization replacement of the meter is not a control. If so, the collector reading the meter should also meet the procedures required for the inspection (authorization, ID, protocol, signatures, presence of the recipient, etc.) Secondly - in case of falsification of meter readings during replacement - what interest would a serial fitter have? If so, he could lower the readings of the removable meter or inflate the indicated reading, take a bribe and worry about how it will be settled in the plant. But for this you need the presence of the recipient! The opposite action (i.e. to the disadvantage of the recipient) is completely pointless because who will pay the installer? That he will be fired for a mistake sooner! I would like to add that replacing during the absence is practicable when meters are available, because the most important thing is the number of pieces and meeting deadlines.

Anonymous · Answer

Have you noticed what the whole department is about? Control? Because in my law it concerns the supply of fuels and energy. And you only see one thing. The word control, which you associate with the theft of energy. And nothing could be more wrong. Which is also described. Of course. Today, many communities have closed counters in their cabinets and the counters writing down the counters do not have the key to them, so he has to report to the cutter anyway so that he can open them for him. And the meter reads out from month to month. As it disappears it no longer. And it doesn't matter if the fitter has any of it or not. There is a possibility of drowning. Because you see, people first throw a pile of cash on the new front door, intercoms, and when they hear the collector in the receiver, they let them in. Today the collector, tomorrow the thief. But how is it going to be your way, please give an example. The fitter comes, without telling anyone, changes the 1-phase meter, and accidentally changes the wires. Phase on the pins. With good (if there are) equipotential bondings, the protection will crash. And often these connections are missing. What's happening? Who will be responsible for this error? Cichociemni?

=Grzegorz= · Answer

It is in the best interest of the recipient to admit a ZE employee to the meter.
In addition, the exchange referred to in this topic concerns the meters of G11 tariff customers and systems LOCATED IN THE COMMERCIAL PLACE, such as a staircase, etc. Here, Article 6.1 does not apply.

If the meter readings are false to the disadvantage of the recipient, a separate company would benefit: ENERGY SELLER who takes the cash from YOU.
The fitter and the company he works for do not get a penny for a possible increase in condition.

@ Geguś:
After replacement, the meters do not disappear, because nobody throws them away on the second day, after removing them, the meter passes by a few more people who also write down the states.
When a stranger wants to enter the cage, he usually says "MAIL".
The fitter is responsible for his mistakes, if he has a wrong connection and something goes wrong, he has to pay.

zbich70 · Answer

You're me buddy dude amused. The most important thing is that the presence of the recipient when replacing the meter will prevent a possible exchange of L with N. According to you, each recipient is an experienced electrician and by looking over the fitter's shoulder is able to detect it ??? I am also surprised by people who spend a lot of money on doors and intercoms and let them in on a word. What if a thief comes and pretends to be a collector? And you have wondered why, during new connections and modernizations, the meters are installed outside the buildings and even on the property border? Well, so that the ZE staff have direct access to them!

kkas12 · Answer

Hello!

I don't know how you can blithely treat all the ideas of the EC as unquestionable binding law. The presence of the tenant whose meter replacement concerns is most desirable due to checking in his installation whether there was a mistake mentioned by a colleague dude and his (the tenant's) knowledge of electrical engineering is not essential at all.

Requirements to install meters outside buildings are slowly starting to become an unjustified siphon of money from electricity users as energy suppliers are increasingly beginning to use accounting estimation. By caring for and limiting their expenses, they also force expenses of other people or business entities.

Anonymous · Answer

The recipe is clear. You need to have the right papers to get into someone else's property and rummage, even if the buried device is not owned by the owner of the property. And what ZE does on its own is, as you can see, the law does not cover. And it's such a stringy law.

ZE employees are never wrong, because companies do not pay compensation for damaged property. After all, replacing the wires after the works are supernatural forces.

As for ZE 99% of recipients are thieves, I see no reason to treat them differently. They are for us, not us for them. This has to be understood and accepted into awareness.

And if ZE does not profit from the meter readings, I will gladly get rid of the meter and want to pay a lump sum. :lol:

stomat · Answer

Some follow Kali's philosophy. You can often read how the ZE interferes with its affairs, penetrates into the recipient's installation and how bad it is. Now it hasn't penetrated and it's also bad. What's the problem anyway? You, gentleman, felt undervalued? If they change the weight in the store, do they also notify customers? And in the telephone exchange, how do they change the meters? This is the distributor's counter and he can change it whenever he wants. A colleague Geguś can take off the meter, there is the R tariff as a lump sum.

Anonymous · Answer

Not. They come when they want and do what they want. And when the owner starts to inquire, they give it a hard time. In fact, it's just an abacus for them. The whole installation is owned by a different owner, so the paws push into them. Truth? And you are a ZE employee? And I suggest that gentlemen read exactly what the R tariff is for.

tomus2k · Answer

art. 142 p 2 of the Civil Code, the collector has the right to enter our premises without our consent to read the meter. This also applies to the ZE service.
We have art. 385'3 p. 11 of the Civil Code. The following provisions are considered illegal: I quote "they only grant the customer's contractor the right to state compliance with the contract"
The meter is part of the contract and its number is written on f-vat, changing the meter is a unilateral contract change, and changing it without knowing the value before disassembly is a unilateral breach of contract terms. What is the conclusion? You can disagree with the next invoice and terminate the contract, and the consequence will be borne by ZE.
But are you sure ?
If it were not for the monopolistic position of ZE, it could be done, but who will supply us with energy to our home, plant?
So we tighten our belts, the carrots in our mouths and write a letter to the Ombudsman asking him to come forward with the initiative to change the energy law.
And if someone has been deceived, he is left with a case for the reporter and a request to the plant to spread the debt into installments. The mere submission of the bet to the Court does not release us from paying (on the part of the contract), otherwise ZE has the right to disconnect the lines and terminate the contract.
And please respect each other and do not challenge honestly working ZE service technicians from the thieves because they did not create this law, it is better to direct your anger in the right direction ... but please, I mean a legislative initiative, not a gun.

stomat · Answer

Not true. The meters are periodically removed for legalization and it is not a contract change. On the other hand, the Ordinance of the Minister of Economy of May 4, 2007 on the detailed conditions for the operation of the power system in paragraph 43 section 7 says: "In the case of replacement of the metering and billing system during the supply of electricity, and also after the end of its supply, the energy company issues a document to the recipient. containing data identifying the metering and billing system and the meter reading status at the time of disassembly. " There is no obligation to inform the customer about the replacement of the meter.
But we still don't know what's the problem ?

Anonymous · Answer

Which does not mean that they can enter the apartment / block because it was open and rummage. The ordinance may not breach the provisions of the act. And in the law it says: If the replacement of the meter, because the end of legalization is not related to its operation, then what is it related to? And what you write about is just the paper to be delivered to the other side. And meeting one condition will result in saving many times a year on a stamp and an envelope and we already know how much can be spent on better purposes. But no thinking.

mimimim4m · Answer

And that's where I have a problem, a very serious one. In March, the meter was replaced and the protocol was left in the mailbox. The initial state of the report is 0. The counters are in the corridor in a locked chest. When the annual settlement came in September, it turned out that the meter is 10500kWh and fv for PLN 5500 (previously I used about 1000kWh per year, and here for a period of 6 months 10500kWh). The meter was sent for testing and it turned out to be operational. I suspect that the installed meter was not new and the initial state was different from zero, and the installer made a mistake in entering the initial state, or the meter itself is defective. The expert opinion confirmed the correct counting, but the report does not mention the correct operation of the display, or the reading from the memory or errors from the meter register. I'm trying to fight the Vattenfall but they got me in ... there is an indication of pay. I am afraid that I will not be able to deal with it, and I see no reason to give them PLN 5,000. The installation was checked and everything is ok. The average consumption in this period was 2kWh / h. I wrote another complaint about proving by Vattenfal that the meter was 0 and I am waiting for a response. I don't know what to do next, maybe someone will suggest an idea?

karolq · Answer

Go to the nearest emergency room in your area and explain the matter. They have assembly cards with the meter reading from the photo written down. Maybe such an invoice is the result of a badly written old meter or, as you say, new was not new but legalized. The installer wrote 0 and in fact it could have been a bit more, but he should know what the dangers of such action are #

=Grzegorz= · Answer

If it was an electronic counter, all the history is there, it is enough to read the states and dates. Since it was tested, it means it was done.

If it was an inductive meter, it could not be hung again if it was already hanging by someone and it could not have states greater than a few kWh.

If the meter for testing has been replaced, you now have a new meter by which you can assess how much you use. Convert how much you have per day IT'S VERY EASY! write down the meter readings, what devices you have at home.

I suspect that the first meter was faulty which is not such a rare case. The meter could hang for 15 years with the bridge down / loose or two! and it did not catch it, then an electronic exchange comes and suddenly the invoice grows 2 or 3 times

Anonymous · Answer

And it came out. I suppose this is for household needs only, right? I am not a saver and my two-month bills are over PLN 300-400 in the G12g system. But what I'm reading here is some kind of a travesty. Anyone know whose side?

mimimim4m · Answer

Yes, it's exactly about my Dad (72 years old). He lives alone in a block of flats, uses an 11W bulb and a 100W TV. The report of the expert opinion does not mention anything about the readings from the meter's memory or the error log. It was only checked that the meter measures correctly at a load of 60A, 0.5A and 1A.
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic1799456.html

=Grzegorz= · Answer

You requested the meter expertise and it turned out well, which does not surprise me.
I would ask the ZE for a protocol for reading the meter memory with archival indications.

What you can do now is read the current meter every day and calculate the average daily consumption.

If the previous meter was defective or the employee made a mistake, then everything should be OK on the current meter

Unannounced Electricity Meter Replacement by Energy Company Employee: Is it Permissible?

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