Migomat 150A without cylinder. What is the difference in welding?

Hello, I wanted to advise you, I think about a migomat, e.g. 150A, I saw on the Allegro for PLN 629, and if anyone could advise me what is the difference in welding without a cylinder, I read that if you weld without a cylinder, you need to buy powdered wire, but is there any difference in welding? and more or less I could weld with it or I would be able to weld profiles and some thicker flat bars, e.g. 8 mm, so far I was welding with a 150A transformer welder with the thickest electrode 3 mm and I was able to weld with a thicker material.

There are two methods of welding; one is gas-shielded welding, and the other is welding with a special wire with a coating on top, and then no gas is used. When welding with Migomat, you need to remove the cover with a hammer, (just like the electrode), as you weld in a gas shield, the weld comes out nice right away and without any additional work. When welding thicker materials, thicker wire must be used for the weld to be strong and melted. If you use a lagging, it will be thicker and you won't be able to insert a thicker wire to enter the armor. The maximum thickness of the wire that can be used is the thickness of the armor into which it is inserted. Welding 8mm thick materials with this migomat will be very difficult.
Welding wire without gas is called; flux-core.

Dioda52 wrote:

Welding 8mm thick materials with this migomat will be very difficult.
Welding wire without gas is called; flux-core.

And with the use of gas, it will be possible to weld thicker materials? Is it better to buy an electric transformer or an inverter?

Each migomat indicates the thickness of the materials it is intended for. In my opinion, it should have at least 250A, so that such thick materials can be welded well. It is much better to use a transformer welder for such welding, or an inverter welder. The most important thing is the current efficiency and what cycle it allows welding. Many welders have a limited time for continuous welding due to the fact that the transformer or inverter is low in power and works under a heavy load and becomes very hot, causing it to turn off or stop welding.

Dioda52 wrote:

It is much better to use a transformer welder for such welding, or an inverter welder.

What is the difference between a transformer and an inverter welder? and which is better for welding?

The transformer welder is a very good welder, but quite heavy and the handling is quite troublesome, but basically not unreliable, the reason is the almost lack of electronics. It all depends on the performance of this welder, whether it is steel or alternating current. Much better welds are made with steel beam welding machines.
Inverter welding machines are basically small, quite light, easy to move to another place. They are made exclusively with electronics and are quite complicated. At the time of damage, the cost of repair can be high. Sometimes they get damaged for unknown reasons. They are steel beam welders.
Rotary welders are different welders. They are the best, but carrying them around is virtually impossible. They are mounted on wheels with a motor on one side and a DC generator on the other. They are mostly used in one place in the workshop. They used to be used very often on construction sites.
Rotary welders are the most expensive, then inverter welders and finally the cheapest transformer welders. You should pay attention to structures when buying, the possibility of long welding without interrupting welding, the maximum welding current and what it will be used for.

Dioda52 wrote:

The transformer welder is a very good welder, but quite heavy and the handling is quite troublesome, but basically not unreliable, the reason is the almost lack of electronics. It all depends on the performance of this welder, whether it is steel or alternating current. Much better welds are made with steel beam welding machines.
Inverter welding machines are basically small, quite light, easy to move to another place. They are made exclusively with electronics and are quite complicated. At the time of damage, the cost of repair can be high. Sometimes they get damaged for unknown reasons. They are steel beam welders.

And which are the nicer DC transformer or DC inverter welds?

If they are well made, it doesn't matter which welder you use. The most important is the person who welds, who has welding practice and experience, and welding technique. The weld must be well-fused to the material and completely fill the place of welding, with no flooding at the edges. You have to follow how long you want to weld without interruption, and not constantly stop and wait for the welding machine to cool down, because it has overheated.

And how do the inverter welders with the possibility of connecting and tig welding work?

A tig can not be attached to every inverter welder. If there is a system for a snap, it is theoretically possible to connect a tigue. Tig welding is done for very thin materials and for a nice weld. The welding speed is very slow in the tig. Obviously, there must be a gas connection in an inverter welder.

Welding with powder wire is expensive. Rather useful for people who weld very little, or for example for installers - who often change their workplace and only need a welder for a moment.

Whether to buy one or the other welding machine depends primarily on what it is to be mainly used for, how often it is to be used, and what material is to be welded with it.
You already got some of the answers.
For your needs (8mm), it is 150A because, as my friend wrote before, 250A to weld this thickness.
You have not written whether you will use it sporadically or you are going to weld regularly as in the company.
If you want to weld regularly, forget about the MARKET (read Chinese) ones, because you probably know the proverb `` cheap meat dogs eat ''.
It is seemingly cheap, but how much health does it cost to use.
For comparison, you can ask whether to give PLN 220 for a set of keys confusingly similar to the original well-known brand (I will not do an advertisement), or to give PLN 280 for such but original set of keys for which you have a lifetime guarantee?
Summarizing, answer the questions I asked above and think what is more profitable for you.
A DIY toy or equipment that you weld what you need and it will age sooner than ruin your nerves.

Hello,
or this migomat:
http://allegro.pl/spawarka-migomat-kraftdele-mig-mag-flux-200a-380v-i3879605635.html
I weld 2x2 and 4x4 profiles?
Is it better to weld using the FLUX method or in a gas shield?
If gases are the best for an amateur?

It is always better to weld in a gas shield, the penetration is better and the weld is more durable

Added after 1 [minutes]:

This welder can only be played with, not welded

Added after 3 [minutes]:

Argon gas for the migomat

And what kind of migomat would be good for an amateur?

ollpio wrote:

Argon gas for the migomat

But you broke. In a jiffy, stainless steel and aluminum are welded in an argon shield, and the boy wants to weld black steel, so either pure CO2 or Argon 80% / CO2 20% mixture. Less spatter on the mixture.
As for the welding machine, it is at least Esab origomig 170 or caddymig c200i. If you do not mind a weak cycle and worse quality of welds, you can still be interested in Besters, e.g. from Castorama 1700S, costs about PLN 1,300, but it is much lower-class equipment than the proposed Esabas.
Cheap Chinese welding machines are useless.

zdenek_zdenek wrote:

ollpio wrote:

Argon gas for the migomat

But you broke. Stainless steel and aluminum are welded in a flash in an argon shield

Aluminum is welded in the Argon shield in the MIG method, and stainless steel is welded in the MAG method, the shielding gas is Argon + up to 4% CO2 and possibly 1% oxygen ...

Pure argon is in TIG to stainless steel ...

Hi. My migomat is cylinder compatible. Can I also use it for welding with this wire intended for welding without gas? If so, will something happen when I weld with it, but also with gas?

Nothing will happen to the welder if you ask about it, but why waste gas?

Oh, that's cool, because in my shop (UK) the cost of wire for welding with gas is 2x higher than for welding without gas. And won't the weld be better when I use gas for this wire, or does it make no difference?

Gniewomir81 wrote:

Oh, that's cool, because in my shop (UK) the cost of wire for welding with gas is 2x higher than for welding without gas. And won't the weld be better when I use gas for this wire, or does it make no difference?

Really We (Pl) are much more expensive (comparing the "bare" meter and in the buffer zone). I will not speak authoritatively which one is better, because I welded this wire only on the "welder" from Lidl, which was included in the set. The quality was devastating, although a couple of tables are still standing there I suspect that the problem with the weld was due to the poor quality of the wire itself and this "snot" machine For a nice weld, you need a good welder and good wire, which is also of different quality. Maybe my colleagues from the Forum have larger ones related to it or read the forums for welders, you will find more information there

Today I welded flux for the first time on my Ideal, I have the impression that the weld is prettier than with gas. I don't have much experience.