Feedback on the installation of a smart home system in a 110m² house

Krzyś33, you know that the Integra has modules which assign an address to each device, so in theory a single bus (one wire) is enough for most devices such as sensors and the like. Integra offers a wide range of programming options (options that are more than enough for the average person in a standard building, and in 99 per cent of cases, most of these features simply go unused due to the client’s lack of awareness of what other cool things can be done)
In view of the above, I see no reason to invest significant sums in other, more expensive systems, because what percentage of their capabilities will we actually utilise?
As for Bronka22, he wanted to make it clear that cabling isn’t, as they say, just a matter of ‘running a wire’ . You need to have a clear concept of how the building will function, a plan for the installation (even if it’s just in your head, but a well-thought-out one), and an awareness of what else will be installed in the building during the finishing stages – what other systems are involved – to avoid conflicts, faults or damage. It may well be that you’re doing the cabling today, plastering tomorrow, and in two days’ time someone’s drilling through your cables because they want to fix a suspended ceiling with wall plugs, or your installation turns out to run through areas where, for example, a forced-ventilation system is planned. So what then? You can be sure they’ll rip out your cables because you could have adapted to their design, whereas they’re unlikely to bend or alter metal pipes and other structures just because a few of your cables are in the way. That’s life. Anyone who’s ever spent even a single day laying cables in an unheated building in winter, freezing their socks off, and then seen what needs repairing or changing, has learnt once and for all what to avoid and what to ask about and agree with the client, because the client will always say‘I don’t know anything about this; you’re the expert, you should have foreseen this’ – and, actually, they’re right:)

As for Mr Konopka:
an alarm is always a matter of the client’s taste and psychological approach; some say the sound will deter a burglar – I’ve seen alarm systems that were completely silenced and did absolutely no good; others claim that the sight of a siren and the fact that the system is visible deters burglars by suggesting there are lots of valuable items in the house, though that seems a rather silly approach in an age when every new house has an alarm system fitted as standard.

As for the monitoring, I really don’t understand what the issue is. How can they require you to have the entire alarm system installed? You install the control panel, you’ve got a working system, you register with the agency and they fit you with a radio transmitter, a DL unit or some other means of alerting the alarm monitoring centre; you pay the subscription fee and expect the police to arrive on time. The idea of a rapid police response, or that you’ll actually be able to do anything if you just receive a text message yourself, is a bit of a pipe dream – not to mention the situation where you yourself might be in danger if someone tries to force their way into your home whilst you’re inside. into your home whilst you’re inside. Only an alarm system will guarantee a rapid response from the intervention team.
It all comes down to money again – do you think it’s worth spending about 50 zł a month on CCTV (that’s the price in Łódź; I don’t know what it’s like where you are)

With an intercom, you’ll enter a code – I can even draw you a diagram of how to connect it to the Integra system so that when someone stands at the gate, it’ll beep, light up, go off, and do whatever else you want. For my own convenience, I’ve assigned one button on the remote to activate the electric strike; I use it when I’m entering the property from outside. You can also control the gate or garage door from the remote.. Once again, it’s worth thinking in advance about how many devices you’d like to control remotely (remotely within the property, not via text messages, as that wouldn’t be practical here); depending on how many there are, you’ll need to install a multi-channel radio link.

As for those sensors for LPG, natural gas, carbon monoxide, chloroform and fire detection, it depends on what sort of systems you have in your home and what we need to be wary of. As for the question about the sensor in the cooker, what does it do? Does it shut off the gas locally? Do you mean an anti-leak safety device, or whatever it’s called? And what if a leak occurs in the gas supply – somewhere in a pipe or a rubber hose connected to the cylinder – whilst you’re on your way home, unaware of the danger? The control panel could, for example, cut off the entire gas supply to the house, the siren could alert you with a fire alarm signal, or that favourite text message of yours could notify you of the danger whilst you’re still out and about; alternatively, the security agency could receive the signal and notify you.

There are certain limitations with this SMS control system, as it tends to work by triggering a specific output on the GPRS transmitter using a command, and there’s usually a limited number of these outputs, so it’s probably not possible to adjust the temperature smoothly from 10 to 30 degrees. You’ll need to think about how to do it, but I’m sure something can be worked out.

As for tampering with the alarm system, it’s a simple matter. It needs to be so well and properly designed that, before any idiot interferes with it or tries to gain access to the protected areas, it should have time to send out intrusion, sabotage or other such signals. Mind you, this is only effective if a response team arrives within 5–15 minutes – then there’s still a chance of catching someone on the premises; you won’t be able to do much on your own.
Equipment such as control panels, transmitters, keypads, recorders, routers, etc. must be installed in the protected areas immediately!!! This ensures that, as I wrote above, you’ll already know what’s going on before anyone has a chance to do anything.
People often overlook this and dream of, for example, fitting a transmitter in the entrance hall simply because there happens to be a bit of space next to the cupboard or something. It’s all well and good until someone snaps off the antenna as they walk in

As for recording the footage from the cameras, it seems to me you haven’t had a look at the price lists. Isn’t it the case that your IP cameras, plus an extra computer (because I don’t know if you’re planning to fit a massive hard drive into a normal PC), and a router will end up being a huge expense? Wouldn’t it work out cheaper to get a recorder with its own internal hard drive, capable of connecting to the network, and use standard cameras rather than IP ones? It really just comes down to how much money you’ve got to spend, but who’d want to pay more for the same result?

To wrap up, it seems to me that you’ve got quite a few vague ideas that aren’t tied together into a coherent whole, and perhaps that’s why your mates are getting annoyed. Perhaps you should focus less on the specific technical issues and more on the overall concept – I want this, that and the other; I want to secure X rooms; I want to record footage from X outdoor and Y indoor cameras; I want to control such-and-such a device; I want to divide the house into zones or not; is it a single-storey or multi-storey house, does it have a garage or not, one, two or three entrances; do one, two or three people live there together or in separate rooms, etc. What’s more important for you at the outset is how this house is going to function. We can easily help you choose the right technical solutions, starting with a suitably large control panel, the number of keypads and sensors, the placement of cameras, and the cabling – where, why and for what purpose – and ending with on how to strip insulation from wires without cutting your fingers:)

Best regards

@neptun93
A very insightful post.
I’ve got the Satel catalogue in front of me, with the integrated system at the top.
From the catalogue, I understand that the 128 has a built-in wireless module, whilst the 64 has an external one. Is that correct?
What’s the situation with the doorphone? From your post, I gather you’re treating it as a sensor. I, on the other hand, want every device, including the video doorphone, to function as if it were separate, but, for example, for the camera feed to be recorded in the CCTV recording system. So, for instance, everyone entering the house.
As for IP and non-IP cameras, I understand we’re talking about digital and analogue cameras. In the latter case, they’re cheaper, so for a similar price we get better equipment, particularly in terms of image quality.
But what about remote access to the live feed?
We can view the feed on a monitor in real time using video splitters, whilst simultaneously processing and recording it to a hard drive. This processed (or being processed?) image can be streamed to the network with minimal delay. Is that right or not? A digital camera with a dedicated IP address won’t be exactly ‘live’ either.
But in a digital system, it’s easier (and cheaper) to expand later by adding further devices. Especially if the signal is wireless and the new devices are only powered locally. That’s what I think.
Kloega Bronek wrote that it’s a good idea to use a monitoring control panel for a few additional functions. OK. So here’s my question:
Can I use, for example, an Integra or another control panel to control the roller shutters throughout the building?
Specifically. At the moment, I have manually operated roller shutters. I can fit them with motors featuring wireless control (a remote control that can be placed anywhere in the room, without the need for any alterations). A single remote control can operate several roller shutters. I press a button to close them in a given zone. I move to another part of the house. I press a button to close the next section. Now, I’d like this to happen without me having to walk around, at specific times (scheduled or at dusk), and organised into groups. The same applies to switching the lights on.
Can Integra do this? Or is there another control unit?


It’s not that I’m that lazy. It’s about making it look as though someone’s at home.

To Knopek:
Neptun has explained quite well what’s involved with monitoring groups and securing recordings and the system. That’s exactly what I meant. I was hoping that, by sticking with just the siren, you’d have some sort of additional security system. From what I’ve read, it comes down to the classic approach – protected zones and a suitably rapid response, as described by Neptun.

@bronek,
Thanks for the post,

Integra alarm control panels:
built-in support for 868 MHz two-way wireless devices (model 128-WRL only)
that’s a quote from the catalogue

Video – a gimmick for the rich. That’s precisely why I’m writing about the possibility of integrating associated cameras into the surveillance system. I’m beginning to realise that the recording system is completely independent of the surveillance control panel, e.g. Integra.

I didn’t mention this earlier, but my main idea is to be able to programme everything from a single computer, but also from any monitor in the videophone system. In other words, I’m dreaming of something that doesn’t exist yet – namely, touchscreen panels.
Being realistic, given today’s capabilities and prices, the only thing I’d like is to ‘integrate’ the videophone system in such a way that I can view all the cameras from any of the monitors. Not necessarily just those integrated with the videophone.

Formulating requirements is precisely what we’re discussing here. At least, that’s what I’m doing.

neptun93 wrote:

As far as monitoring is concerned, I really don’t understand what’s going on. How can they require you to carry out the entire alarm installation yourself? You install the control panel, you’ve got a working system, you register with the agency and they fit you with a radio transmitter, a DL unit or some other means of notifying the alarm monitoring centre; you pay the subscription fee and expect the police to arrive on time.

The thing about this installation is that the companies I’ve spoken to previously have alarm systems they support. They don’t want to connect to a system they’re not familiar with. At least, that’s what I was given to understand. But I’ve already sorted that out; I’ve found the right company and it will be set up exactly as you describe.

neptun93 wrote:

The idea of a rapid police response, or that you’ll actually be able to do anything if you receive a text message yourself, is a bit of a pipe dream – not to mention the situation where you yourself might be in danger if someone tries to force their way into your home whilst you’re inside. into your home whilst you’re inside. Only an alarm system will guarantee a rapid response from the emergency response team.
It all comes down to money again – do you think it’s worth spending about 50 zł a month on CCTV (that’s the price in Łódź; I don’t know what it’s like where you are)?

You’re right, I wouldn’t be able to do anything on my own in the event of an incident anyway. I’ll invest in security. But I’ll set up the text alerts anyway, for peace of mind.

neptun93 wrote:

With the intercom, if you give the model number, we can even draw you a diagram of how to connect it to the Integra system so that when someone stands at the gate, it’ll beep, light up, go off – whatever you want. For my own convenience, I’ve assigned one button on the remote to activate the electric strike; I use it when I’m entering the property from outside. You can also control the gate or garage door from the remote. Again, it’s worth thinking in advance about how many devices you’d like to control remotely (remotely within the property, not via those text messages of yours, as that wouldn’t be practical here); once you know that, you’ll know what channel capacity radio link you need to set up.

And this is exactly where the mobile app comes in handy. It’s connected via Wi-Fi, so it would essentially act as a remote control of sorts. I always have my phone with me, so it’ll be more convenient than having to remember to carry a remote control. Control via text message would only be used if there’s no internet access. In that case, I wouldn’t need a radio link.

neptun93 wrote:

As for the question about that sensor in the cooker, what does it do? Does it cut off the gas locally? Do you mean the gas leak safety device, or whatever it’s called? And what if a leak occurs in the gas supply – somewhere in a pipe or a rubber hose connected to the cylinder – whilst you’re on your way home, unaware of the danger? The control unit could, for example, cut off the entire power supply to the house, the siren could alert you with a fire alarm, or that text message you’re so fond of could notify you of the danger whilst you’re still out and about; alternatively, the security agency could receive the signal and notify you.

The sensor in the cooker is simply a local cut-off safety feature. That’s why, as I mentioned earlier, following a previous suggestion (I think it was yours), I’m considering additional sensors near the pipes and the solenoid valve that cuts off the main gas supply. Solutions involving notifications are a matter of system configuration; I’ll take that into account.

neptun93 wrote:

There are certain limitations with this SMS-based control system Because it tends to work by using some sort of command to activate a specific output on the GPRS transmitter, and there’s usually only a limited number of these outputs, so it’s probably not possible to adjust the temperature smoothly from 10 to 30 degrees. We need to think about how to do it, but I’m sure something can be worked out.

In Vision, the setup is such that the GSM module is connected to the computer. There, I’ve defined a rule, for example: [If an SMS with the text ‘temp 20’ is received, set the ‘temperature’ variable to 20] Then it’s just a matter of setting up additional rules that use this variable – to control the analogue output of the I/O circuit based on it, which will in turn control the solenoid valve accordingly. That’s how I’ve worked it out for now; I still need to consult the guys at APA to see if this is a sensible solution. Perhaps there’s an easier way to do it.

neptun93 wrote:

Devices such as control panels, transmitters, keypads, recorders, routers, etc. must be installed in protected zones immediately!!! This ensures that, as I’ve written above, you’ll already know what’s going on before anyone does anything.

I’ll bear that in mind

neptun93 wrote:

As for recording footage from the cameras, it seems to me you haven’t had a look at the price lists. Isn’t it the case that your IP cameras, plus an extra computer (as I don’t know if you’re planning to fit a massive hard drive into a normal PC), and a router will end up being a huge expense? Wouldn’t it work out cheaper to get a recorder with its own internal hard drive, capable of connecting to the network, and use standard cameras rather than IP ones? It really just comes down to how much money you’ve got to spend, but who’d want to pay more for the same result?

That’s precisely why I wanted the system to record only when motion is detected. There’ll be no need to buy a massive hard drive or an extra computer. So the costs won’t go up. Admittedly, this system runs on a PC, but it isn’t very demanding, and I’ll use my old desktop computer for it.

It’s precisely these sort of replies that are valuable – specific and to the point.

P.S. Perhaps I’ll write a bit more detail when I have a spare moment, as you suggested. I didn’t want to go into such detail at the start, as it would have taken up several pages and who would have wanted to read that then I was looking for general advice, but perhaps it really was too general. My friend’s stress is a different matter – but let’s not go back to that

Added after 7 [minutes]:

Michaelen wrote:

I didn’t mention this earlier, but my idea for a fix is to be able to programme everything from a single computer, but also from any monitor in the videophone system. In other words, I’m dreaming of something that doesn’t exist yet – namely, touchscreen panels.
Being realistic, given today’s capabilities and prices, the only thing I’d like is to ‘integrate’ the videophone system so that I can view all the cameras from any of the monitors. Not necessarily just those integrated into the videophone.

I’m not sure I’ve understood you correctly. Do you want to have a system on your computer, plus touchscreen panels inside the house from which you can operate the system just as you would from the aforementioned computer, and, in addition, a videophone and all the cameras connected to the system? I’m not sure about the videophone, but the rest is definitely achievable with Vision.

@Knopka

Exactly, except that these touch panels would also double as monitors.

As for the remote control on your phone:

In theory, it could act as a remote control. And one that controls everything within range of your Wi-Fi. But how long does it take to open the client app on your mobile?
Personally, though, I’d prefer a multi-button remote with a few integrated functions.

@Michaelen

The panels double as monitors; they were actually giving a presentation on one of those. I don’t know how many you can connect – I saw two in their building. I didn’t pay much attention to it, as I don’t need one myself. By the way, it looked quite funny when I walked past one of those panels and saw someone fiddling about with it remotely. I was almost tempted to have a click or two and see how the person playing with it would react ;>

To be honest, I don’t know how long the app takes to load. As for the remote control, they offered me that too, but I preferred this client – it has more features.

Konopka, what I meant about these IP cameras is that they are actually the most expensive part of the system, and switching to standard cameras plus a recorder with its own hard drive would result in savings; recording to the hard drive is absolutely continuous but, for example, with motion detection enabled, so when movement is detected, it records in greater detail, so to speak, and actually that recording and the hard drive are probably the smallest cost; as for the operation of the recorder itself, I’m not sure if it wouldn’t be a lower cost in terms of electricity, but that’s the least of our worries. Just take a price list from any CCTV wholesaler and SSWIN and compare how much an IP camera costs against a ‘normal’ camera with similar specifications.

As for the Integra, the ABAX board only has WRL, and if we want to get into logical functions, the Integra 128 will indeed give us 128 inputs, regardless of how many we physically have in the system– the board has 16 inputs and 16 outputs – 4 high-current and the rest low-current – plus any expansion modules that can be purchased at any time.

As for those remote controls and the mobile phone, I’ll keep fighting for convenience. Personally, I can’t imagine walking up to a gate or wicket, for example, and having to text from my phone to open it; with the remote it’s just one press, and you don’t really have to go to great lengths to make sure you don’t forget it, because it’s such a tiny little thing that you clip onto your keys as a keyring:)

Getting back to those security firms – the idea that the staff there are afraid of ‘some unfamiliar systems they don’t know’ strikes me as a rather daft excuse. The system installer is responsible for the system; they can configure the outputs to trigger appropriate signals for the agency: burglary, assault, fault, tampering and others, whilst the agency’s installer simply fits their transmitter and connects the control panel’s outputs to the transmitter’s inputs. A simple operation – an hour’s work. There are complex systems that people are afraid to touch, but not because they’re some kind of mystery, just because they’re in poor technical condition at best, lacking service codes (as they’re so old that nobody remembers them) and other such minor issues, which an experienced installer can somehow work around provided the property owner is reasonable.
In the case of Satel, a new system installed by the property owner, the installer actually feels at ease when connecting the transmitter:P

The GSM transmitter you mention – are you saying it has analogue outputs? I haven’t used one; are they even manufactured? Unless you’re thinking of some sort of computer module and a digital-to-analogue converter, but then we’re getting into the realm of such equipment and the programming, wiring and configuration involved – I reckon it would be easier to install an industrial PLC with analogue outputs. It’s making things far too complicated. It just seems economically unjustifiable to me to build something like that just to have smooth temperature control at home. Wouldn’t three or four settings—which you can control from a standard thermostat, e.g. 16, 18, 20, 22—be enough? It’s always simpler that way.
Always bear in mind the maintenance required for such a web of wiring and software links; it’s all well and good while it’s working, but once things start going pear-shaped… ...you’ll need the patience to track down the causes of faults, and there’s always the question of whether you’ll be able to anticipate all the system’s reactions during the programming and commissioning stages, given that it’s supposed to monitor a particular process.
Having looked at the promotional page for Vision, I get the impression that this system is a hodgepodge of various modules which essentially perform the same functions as Integra with its modules; the only difference, I suspect, is that it’s operated via a computer programme with a nice graphical interface.. It just makes me wonder how it works in terms of reliability, how long this product has been on the market, and whether it has been tried and tested. Integra has certainly been tried and tested for reliability.

If we’re going to make the house fully accessible, perhaps we could also include these amenities

and a boiler status display Link based on the link to the controller above.

@neptun93:
You’re right, I’ll compare the prices. I can always connect it to Vision. And what about adding extra cameras? When looking for a recorder, do I need to buy a model that supports the right number of cameras? If I wanted to connect one or two extra ones later on, could I do that using the same equipment?

On my phone (when within Wi-Fi range), I can also do this at the touch of a button. Text messages are only useful for remote control ‘in the field’.

As for the security firms, I don’t understand that either, but there was no point in arguing – if they don’t want to, they don’t The competition agreed and the matter is settled.

The GSM module only performs functions related to GSM; it has no outputs. There are separate devices for analogue and digital outputs, connected via RS485 to the computer. I also thought it was complicated at first, but after the training it turned out that even I can operate and configure it. It’s just a matter of plugging in a few cables and a couple of clicks on the computer. I’d say it’s foolproof

Yeah, everything’s great until it breaks down. You have to bear that in mind even when buying a coffee machine. But that’s what the warranty’s for. After that, it’s just like with anything else – if you’re unlucky, it’ll break down; if not, it just keeps on working. I don’t know about the reliability of Vision; I’ll try to get in touch with someone who already has this system. I know the company has a great reputation in industrial automation, so I don’t think they could afford to slip up with a poor IB system. They won the Securex trade fair last year, so I suppose there must be something to it. I’m still at the stage of gathering information.

@jotko:
I don’t think I can afford extras like that. My costs have already gone up after consulting on some solutions. Besides, if it turns out I do buy the system mentioned above, I won’t really need it anyway.

You might want to consider, for example, the Mitho system. It will fulfil the functions described. The touchscreen control unit will act as an intercom or video intercom, without the need for any additional devices. If you leave out the recorder, you’ll be able to feed footage from this device, for example, from an additional CCTV camera inside the house as well as from the panel outside the house. It’s quite a convenient solution. Alternatively, you could expand the Mitho to include an alarm system; then you’ll have everything in a single device, but as far as the alarm itself is concerned, Satel will be the cheaper option. It’s a question of convenience and cost

Mitho – the system mentioned

Is it possible, in this Integra system (which my colleagues have been raving about), for the system to run a loop, for example:

If the twilight sensor is ON
If the time is between 21.00 and 06.00
If standby mode is OFF
Then “Close the blinds”

:?:

Bronek22 wrote:

Yes, that’s possible.

Well, I suppose that’s enough to build an intelligent system.

Now all we need is a graphics display and...

Can you add more inputs/outputs to the Integra? I understand that the outputs are on relays and need to be connected to contactors in the switchboard – are there any ready-made modules available?

I’ve got one more question – hopefully the last one. What’s the difference between software-based motion detection and hardware-based motion detection? If I buy a camera without a motion detection feature, will I still be able to detect motion using software? If so, what’s the point of hardware-based motion detection at all?