Feedback on the installation of a smart home system in a 110m² house

Hello,

I’ve been thinking about setting up a system like this at home for a while now. I’ve done a fair bit of reading and thinking it through. At first I wanted something modest, then my plans expanded considerably, but eventually I found a compromise between my desires and what my budget would allow. I’m now at the final stage – in fact, I’ve practically made up my mind. Before finalising my decision, I wanted to share my plans with forum members and ask for your opinions or suggestions, which would be very valuable to me.

The installation would include (110m² cottage):

- an alarm system (including at least motion detectors, an alarm, a combination lock, reed switches, etc.)
- CCTV (two cameras)
- GSM control
- control of lighting,
- 230V sockets,
- heating,
- water supply (flood protection)

All with the ability to define your own operating logic and a host of options, linkages, etc., which there’s no point in describing. Generally speaking, the software is supposed to be the system’s strong point.

Perhaps someone knows of any other functional solutions? Perhaps you have some yourselves or simply know more about this than I do. Admittedly, I’ve already got my eye on a particular manufacturer (hence this set), so I’d have to stay within budget if I were to expand my purchase to include their services, but there’s always room for further ideas.

I’m open to any suggestions.

Best regards

What can I say – you’ve basically picked out all the essentials. One camera indoors, another outdoors, or both outdoors. If you wanted to do it yourself, that would be a chance to show off your skills, but if you want to buy it, you’ll probably just connect it according to the instructions and, if anything, you might need some help from ‘experts’ at that point. The system might cost less if you do some of the work yourself, or perhaps base your system on a controller whose ‘firmware’ you could then modify. I’m curious to know how much such a system costs and whether it includes all the actuators, such as solenoid valves, cameras, a monitor, relays, contactors, etc., as well as just how ‘flexible’ the system is. Things usually look a bit different once it’s installed. Best regards and Happy New Year

Hello. I’d recommend the LCN system (it’s expensive!), but it can be customised and only requires a single signal cable. Unless, of course, you’re considering this option whilst the building is under construction. Best regards.

zbychmg wrote:

What can I say – you’ve basically picked out all the essentials. One camera inside, the other outside, or both outside. If you wanted to do it yourself, that would be a chance to show off your skills, but if you want to buy it, you’ll probably just connect it according to the instructions and, if anything, you might need some help from ‘experts’ at that point. The system might cost less if you do some of the work yourself, or perhaps base your system on a controller whose ‘firmware’ you could then modify. I’m curious to know how much such a system costs and whether it includes all the actuators, such as solenoid valves, cameras, a monitor, relays, contactors, etc., and just how ‘flexible’ the system is? Things usually look a bit different once it’s installed. Best regards and Happy New Year

Just as you say, I’m planning one camera outside and another inside. They’ll be IP cameras, so I can always change their positioning. I might even buy a wireless one later on.

To be honest, I don’t have enough knowledge, let alone the time, to tinker with it myself. As for the system, I’ve decided on Vision BMS. I attended a training session and spoke to a chap who uses it at his company, so I’ve already got a first-hand opinion. In terms of flexibility and functionality (the ability to define logic, etc.), it’s exceptionally feature-rich. The capabilities I saw were very impressive; the software is simply very comprehensive.

As for the price and what’s included, apart from a single camera and the solenoid valves, the whole thing is set to cost me 10,000 zł. That covers all the relays, power supplies, etc. I still need to consult someone about the valves so they can help me choose the right ones, and I’ll buy them myself. The same goes for the camera. On top of that, there’ll be the cost of installing the system, but I’ll try to do that my own way as well.

I’ve also been thinking about controlling the roller blinds, but I’m afraid I’ll have to wait a bit longer on that, as the blinds themselves are quite an expense. I’m planning the wiring so that it can be implemented quickly later on.

Any other suggestions?

Compared to dedicated smart building systems such as KNX and similar, Integra offers a much cheaper alternative, with the difference being that, instead of a ready-made module to which you simply connect the power supply and loads, you’ll have an additional automation distribution board with relays. The only downside to Integra so far is that you can’t use it to control lighting dimmers.

Apart from that, Integra is easier to programme than, for example, the aforementioned KNX – after all, where would you get the software for it, and who would teach you how to use it? Writing scenarios to handle events is half the battle.

And you’ll also need to adapt the electrical installation to it, as a standard system not adapted for ‘smart’ functionality will be useless.
I’ve built a few ‘smart’ systems using Integra Once you get to grips with the software and scenarios, the sheer number of possibilities can drive you mad... You’re limited by just two things: your imagination and your budget...

Actually, I can see that you’re throwing your colleague in at the deep end without even asking what experience and familiarity he has with programming anything, or even just basic wiring work. Perhaps it’s worth starting with this:
Integra certainly has its capabilities, but the programming side of things can be overwhelming for a beginner at first, unless we’re dealing with an inquisitive sort who’s willing to put in a lot of time and teach themselves.
Right from the start, you need to have a clear plan and know what you want. What do you want to control? It’s a bit of a nuisance when you suddenly realise you’ve forgotten to run cables somewhere, or they’re not the right type. The number of devices to control, the number of sensors and so on. Then we’ll know whether an Integra 128 or perhaps a 64 will suffice, so as not to get bogged down in costs (you can always add a module later if needed).
It’s worth thinking about which actuators to use and what voltages they require, because sometimes a silly little controller for something or other runs on 24V, and that’s a problem because it won’t be controlled from the Integra without an additional power supply.
The layout of devices, sensors, keypads, control panels, etc., is crucial. When well-positioned, they ensure the system operates as expected and poses no problems in terms of operation and day-to-day use – not to mention the savings on cabling.
The most important thing is that initial overall concept, which only the investor themselves can dream up; after that, we can discuss the realistic technical feasibility of implementation and whether certain solutions make economic sense.

A question for Knopek:

How do you intend to operate this system? I mean, I understand that you’ll programme certain options, such as switching off the power at the sockets at the right moment or shutting off the water in the event of a flood. In future, you’ll want to add further functions that you can control remotely. All well and good.
But how do you intend to manage the CCTV system? Will the signal be sent to a security agency?
Will you be recording the camera footage? If so, where will the ‘server’ be located? If not, will the camera footage be streamed ‘online’ continuously, or only when you’re away, with you logging in to view the cameras whenever you wish or in the event of an alarm?
As there will only be two cameras, any damage to the external one might not be recorded at all if something happens.
Does the surveillance function in your project include a videophone feature, hence the external camera? Or do you already have an intercom (videophone?) and aren’t including it in the project?
As you mentioned a house, I assume you have a gate. Will gate operation be recorded by the monitoring system? Could switching on the outdoor lights in your project be done via a remote control when you arrive home?
And one last question in this series: Which components of the heating system would the system control?
I’m also looking into solutions like this.

Right, let’s take it one step at a time.

- Yes, I’ll be able to reprogram the system myself. I also have enough basic knowledge to do it on my own, as it’s relatively straightforward in this system – I’ve already had the chance to familiarise myself with it. If need be, I could even do it by trial and error, as you can create database backups. That’s what I meant when I wrote about sophisticated software. Lots of options that are easy to set up.

- Some of you are telling me not to bite off more than I can chew, whilst trying hard to persuade me to go for Integra, which will cost me a lot more time and knowledge. So I probably shouldn’t go for it without having that knowledge in the first place! Please don’t tell me not to jump in at the deep end, whilst at the same time pushing me into even deeper water.
If I buy the IB system, I’ll have a ready-made design, all components selected for me, and a manufacturer’s warranty.
Incidentally, I’ll add that this Vision BMS is compatible with Integra control panels.

- I don’t intend to carry out the installation myself; a company I’m on good terms with will implement the ready-made design for me.

Michaelen:

The surveillance system will allow me to view footage online, for example via my phone (I happen to have an Android device on which it works), but also in the traditional way from a computer connected to the network. Footage will only be recorded when motion is detected, to save space on the hard drive where it’s stored. The sensitivity can be adjusted, as can the areas of the image that are to respond to motion (this includes, amongst other things, that feature-rich software which Bronek22 didn’t like).

As for the camera being vandalised, I hadn’t given it much thought, but I’ll have to – thanks for the tip.

I’m not including the intercom in the project. I’m planning to use a reed switch on the gate. I’m not planning on a remote control, but rather text message alerts. I don’t currently plan to control the outdoor lights.

The heating system would consist of solenoid valves. The boiler will be set to a constant temperature and will regulate the heating intensity itself using feedback control.

To Knopek:

OK, you’ll be recording the activity. That’s clear and standard practice. But will you have a radio alert to notify a response team, or will the siren alone be enough to scare off intruders?
As for the intercom system, I think it’s essential. I’m looking for a solution myself that would integrate this – footage from the gate intercom camera as part of the surveillance system. Triggered by motion too? Or by a ring? I actually wanted to do away with the intercom system altogether, but as far as I can tell, the ones available on the market don’t have the capability to control the rest of the devices in the house.
Controlling the lighting in the house is one thing, but managing the gate and integrating the automation components is another. For now, I reckon it’ll be a standalone system. My only problem is whether the camera tracking vehicles entering the property should react to movement or to the gate opening. In other words, the signal from the main gate and the side gate would act as a control signal for the monitoring system – the online viewing system (intercom) for people inside the house.
As for the heating system, I still don’t understand where the savings lie. For example, if I have a boiler with a control unit, I can remove the control panel, programme it somewhere in the house, and then go back to the boiler room to fit it onto the boiler so that it continues to operate using the new settings. I’d love to be able to change these settings remotely, depending on the weather and my needs. Have you checked whether anything like this exists? Are these just ideas from individual boiler manufacturers, or are they perhaps integrated into some sort of comprehensive system?
There are so many possibilities – phew.

I haven’t read all the replies, but I don’t think anyone has suggested the most important thing to our friend: smoke detectors for LPG or natural gas (depending on what’s installed there).
However, life and health are more important than property.

As for designing a system that combines multiple features, you’d need to start with the building plans and work out who will be using it and how. Only then can you make a more precise suggestion to my friend and highlight the various problems that might arise.

Somehow, it doesn’t make sense to record only events triggered by motion detection; it doesn’t affect either HDD usage or its capacity at all, because, firstly, the oldest recordings are overwritten [with a 500G hard drive and 8 cameras, that’s about 30 days of playback history], and secondly – and this is very important, though everyone forgets it – the hard drive is spinning all the time, regardless of whether the heads are writing to it or not so talk along the lines of ‘only after an incident, so as not to take up space’ makes absolutely no sense and stems from a lack of understanding of how such a system works...

Michaelen:

As for the alarm – the basis will be an optical and acoustic alarm designed to scare off an intruder. I’m still thinking about notifying the emergency services, but I plan to leave a ‘spare’ signal and run a cable for that purpose. The issue is that I need to find a system that doesn’t require me to install my own equipment, but will allow me to connect a single (one of their) devices that receives the alarm signal and relays the information back to them. I know that few systems allow for this, but it is possible.

Intercom – here, you can always try connecting signals (e.g. from the doorbell) to the system’s input/output devices. It just needs to be within the correct voltage range. I wouldn’t really include cameras here, unless it’s the one installed on the building’s façade. Whether and when the camera should record footage linked to intercom signals can be determined on an ad hoc basis – I think this will work best in practice.

Entrance gate – I don’t plan to connect the entrance gate to the system. I think you could set it up to record footage upon motion detection in the driveway itself, and leave the gate out of it. I say this because I don’t know how integration with the IB gate automation system works – I haven’t looked into it. Unless it works on the same principle as I described for the intercom.

Heating – in the system I’m planning to buy, you can control the heating (basically everything) via text message or from your phone, but the latter requires an Android device. With text messages, you need to define the ‘commands’ for the system correctly, and you can then change the settings to the options you’ve previously configured. On Android, you install the client app and can essentially control it almost as if you were at home.

neptun93:
I’ve supposedly already got a gas detector in the cooker, but it’s actually worth considering installing detectors near the pipes. Cheers That would mean adding another solenoid valve, which would cost more money. Ugh, the costs are piling up...

Bronek22:
If someone steals my phone, they won’t be able to access the system without the password. Even if they managed to crack it, I’ll have changed it by then.
As for the setup and “getting to grips with what I’m planning”, I’ll manage fine – don’t worry about me so much And if you’re just going to post malicious comments like you have been, then perhaps you should give it a miss.

Miwhoo:
Well, yes, but by recording events only when there’s movement, I’ll be able to view just what interests me, rather than footage from the whole day. Why would I need a recording of the wind blowing? And saving space seems sensible to me – instead of deleting recordings, say, every 30 days as you mentioned, I’ll be able to do it every few months. I’ll also be able to buy a smaller hard drive. It’ll be spinning and working constantly – just as you say, but that’s just the way it is

Knopka wrote:

I’m open to any suggestions.

I can see, however, that you’re not really open to them after all; you’ve thought this through and aren’t really interested in anyone else’s opinion. I suggest closing this thread.

I’ve already received two useful pieces of advice, which I’ll be taking on board, so I suppose I am getting something out of this after all. I’m writing to get more advice just like that. I’ve given the topic some thought, but I suppose that’s a good thing, isn’t it?

To Knopek:

1. Which heating system can be fully controlled via text message? I’m curious about that.

2. Controlling the system via a mobile and receiving alarm notifications on it isn’t really enough. I understand that, as well as via your mobile, you’ll also have access from a remote computer. So the system should be installed on a computer at home. One that’s always running. The same goes for the CCTV recordings. So, for example, a burglar could simply destroy the system and wipe everything.
3. How does your system handle recording footage from the cameras? How many cameras can you record at once?

Bronek22 wrote:

That’s how burglar alarms were set up in the early 1980s.
Nowadays, burglars don’t give the alarm a second thought. The police only respond to a call after five minutes. And they probably won’t even turn up.

Hmm, well, maybe so, but it’ll always put off an amateur. That’s what I think. After all, there are people living in the neighbourhood too. I’m not counting on my neighbours’ help, of course, but it seems to me that the burglar himself, knowing that everyone in the area is aware of the alarm, will at least have less time. Anyway, as I say, if my finances allow it, I’ll try to get a security service.

Bronek22 wrote:

They’ll welcome you with open arms, as long as you’re willing to pay the subscription fee.

So far, two companies in my area have wanted to install their own systems, so it’s not quite as easy as you say. But you’re right – it can be sorted out; I just need to look around a bit more.

Bronek22 wrote:

You haven’t got the foggiest idea how to go about it, mate. You’re talking complete nonsense.
On top of that, you don’t have the faintest idea about intercoms.

I’ve got an output on my intercom for the doorbell at home. A high signal triggers the doorbell. Instead of connecting the signal to the doorbell, I connect it to a digital I/O device and get a signal for the system. Maybe I’m wrong, but in that case, please tell me specifically what’s wrong.

Bronek22 wrote:

A bit of common sense, mate. Some logical thinking.
Are you counting on the pipe to burst? You can count on that until the end of the world.

There are also joints between the pipes that can start to leak over time. The same goes for the connections to appliances like cookers. That’s why the gas company staff check these things during inspections in blocks of flats. “You haven’t even understood that, mate.” I hadn’t thought of it myself – or had forgotten about it – until neptun93 pointed it out to me.

Bronek22 wrote:

You haven’t even understood that, mate. The point is, you won’t be able to control the appliances remotely, and you won’t receive any alarm notifications.

OK, I agree with that. I won’t be controlling the devices remotely anymore. There could also be a situation where a burglar steals the phone first, then breaks into the house, and I won’t receive an alarm signal. But that doesn’t mean I have to rule out the possibility of remote control via my phone straight away. There are no perfect solutions; you have to reckon with the possibility of your phone being stolen, but it’s not the end of the world.
P.S. My wife, brother or anyone else could also receive the alarm notification via text message.

Bronek22 wrote:

Why bother looking at this? And every single day at that. Are you planning to spy on your own family?

I never said anywhere that I want to check this every day.

To Michaelen:

1. Well, as I wrote, it’s really done entirely via the app on your phone. With text messages, it works by defining commands in advance. For example, setting the temperature to 22 degrees. Or a specific mode – 24 during the day and 19 at night. You set up as many as you need and then assign the appropriate text message content to each command. At least, that’s how I understood how it works in this system.

2. Well, yes – if a burglar damages the system, that’s it. But I suppose that’s the case with any burglar alarm system. Here, though, they’d have to get into the computer, and first they’d have to bypass the security measures. Or perhaps you know of some good security measures that I haven’t mentioned (actuators)? I can see you’re interested in the subject too.

3. Oh, I can’t help you with that one. I don’t know exactly how this recording works. All I know is that video and photo files are saved to the hard drive. If you need specific details – for example, regarding the format and so on – please contact the manufacturer.
http://visionsystem.pl/
Two cameras can record at the same time, so I suppose more can too, but I don’t want to mislead you.

Let me know what solutions you’re looking into; maybe I’ll pick up a few ideas from you ;>

Added after 7 [minutes]:

Bronek22 wrote:

Mate, you can’t have a serious discussion. Because what Knopka is writing
is the vague dreams of a young man. They have absolutely no connection with the possibility of realisation. It’s hard to argue about dreams.

If you’ve no idea what I’m writing about, then don’t comment in that way. I’ve discussed most of it with the manufacturer and I know it’s entirely feasible. You’re just writing insults, nothing concrete.

Bronek22 wrote:

As for the cameras, they must be connected to a video splitter.
Not to the computer. The video splitter has its own hard drive.
And a system for viewing footage from individual cameras.
The cameras are powered by a 12V power supply, the video splitter by 230V.
For this to work in the event of a power cut, the video splitter and the cameras’ power supplies must be powered by their own battery-backed UPS.
Daily viewing camera footage – is pure utopia in terms of the amount of work involved. The young man doesn’t know what he’s on about.
Bronek

As above – you haven’t got a clue what you’re on about. If you’d read what I’ve written, you’d see that I’m talking about IP cameras. I connect these to the router and the whole thing goes via Ethernet to the computer where the footage is recorded.

Mate, I don’t think you understand the point of monitoring and recording to an HDD. The hard drive installed in the recorder isn’t suitable for reading data on a computer [unless you’re using a particular version of Linux, in which case you might be able to work something out, but there’s no 100% guarantee]. The recorder automatically overwrites the oldest recordings, whether you want it to or not. The only option is to set the minimum data retention period to be longer than the maximum recording time on the hard drive; then, once the hard drive is full, the recorder won’t delete the recordings. From the administrator’s perspective, the only way to delete recordings is to format the entire system.

Unless I’ve misunderstood your intentions and, instead of a stand-alone device, you’ll be using a PC expansion card – in which case there’s greater scope for interfering with the surveillance system. Everything has its pros and cons

Have you had a look here?

Miwhoo wrote:

Mate, I don’t think you understand the point of monitoring and recording to an HDD. The hard drive installed in the recorder isn’t suitable for reading data on a computer [unless you’re using a particular version of Linux, in which case you might be able to work a solution, but there’s no 100% guarantee]. The recorder automatically overwrites the oldest recordings, whether you want it to or not. The only option is to set the minimum data retention period to be longer than the maximum recording time on the hard drive; then, once the drive is full, the recorder won’t delete the recordings. From the administrator’s interface, the only way to delete data is to format the entire drive.

Unless I’ve misunderstood your intentions and, instead of a stand-alone device, you’ll be using a PC expansion card – in which case there’s greater scope for interfering with the surveillance system. Everything has its pros and cons

That’s not quite right. As I mentioned above, the system I’m planning to buy supports IP cameras. The software on the computer itself is responsible for reading and writing data. There is no intermediary device, apart from the router. In fact, you could connect the camera directly to the PC. In this system, too, I specify the maximum disk space that recording files are allowed to occupy, as well as all other operating rules.

Added after 1 [minute]:

jotko wrote:

Have you had a look here?

I’ll have a read when I’ve a spare moment, thanks

Hello.

Bronek22 wrote:

When building a house, you need to know how to wire it. This requires a great deal of practice and experience. A great deal of experience.
Because once the house is built, you can’t just run cables through it afterwards. And it turns out that the radio needs to be in a room upstairs on a specific side. But no cable was laid there. It’s even worse with a smart home. It requires far more experience than an alarm system.
I won’t be taking part in this debate any further. Bronek.

I disagree with that statement. The LCN system (although quite expensive) requires only one additional cable (which can be an extra core in a new installation). It offers extensive expansion possibilities. In view of this, I have a question: why does Bronek22 support Integre so strongly? Best regards to everyone.

Krzyś33 wrote:

(...) Why is Bronek22 such a big supporter of Integre? Best wishes to everyone.

Can’t you just ask Bronek22 via private message?

After all, he clearly wrote:

Bronek22 wrote:

I won’t be taking part in this debate any further. Bronek.