Gas pipe covered with gypsum board, compliant with regulations?

Question

Can the Cu gas pipe (Junker power supply + gas stove) be covered with a plasterboard, but there are 4 holes (?-3 cm) along the entire length for ventilation of the closed space (the pipe is not in the groove)? Please indicate the relevant provisions regulating this issue. So far, I have...

waldekel · Accepted Answer

Please do not be misleading as you have no idea about regulations and standards. Bravo RIGIPS or KNAUF is a European or national standardization committee. What is Rigipsy A very wise statement, there should be a project for the reconstruction of the installation, acceptance protocols and tightness tests, and this should be presented to the property manager. Please read and understand Journal of Laws No. 75: 2. Gas system lines in basements and basements should be led on the surface of the walls or under the ceiling, while on the other above-ground storeys it is allowed to run them also in grooves covered with unsealed screens or filled - after prior installation tightness test - with easily removable plastering mass that does not cause Corrosion of pipes Filling of grooves in which copper pipes are led is forbidden.

bro2004 · Accepted Answer

I recommend reading and then expressing yourself. We are not interested in what are the regulations in Tajikistan or Austria

waldekel · Accepted Answer

The laws are here Standards, unfortunately paid, on the PKN website Crimped pipes are currently a fledgling matter in Poland, because they have been approved for use not long ago. As for the tightness of the screen, I am asking for a little imagination. Gas (methane) is especially dangerous at a concentration of ~ 4% -16%. Suspended ceiling in gas installations is a misunderstanding. Gas is lighter than air and will always search for the top nooks and crannies. The provision clearly specifies I do not know about Austria, but in Poland, the regulations are often ignored to make it more convenient, then the effects are known. In the event of a tragedy, blame is sought everywhere but at home.

krisi3 · Accepted Answer

The guy who did this installation should know if it can or can not be built in. What bothers is one pipe and probably ?22 or ?18. It's not about being nice, but safe.

krisi3 · Accepted Answer

Buddy, what nonsense you write, we have specific regulations regarding gas installations in Poland and no one is interested in what you saw because I can assure you that not one of us has seen different babes in this topic. And with today's technology used in plumbing, I do not see any problem here. with placing this pipe under the ceiling, and it does not have to be 10 cm above the table top and along the wall.

krisi3 · Accepted Answer

Well, gentlemen, it has finally started, of course, that the contractor is responsible for the poor performance, and he should correct it at his own expense according to the art. And in the first post, my friend assured that the tightness was checked and here we have the answer why it is not worth hiding gas pipes. It couldn't be used to cover this tube, it's such a lesser evil but necessary.

Ryszard49 · Accepted Answer

Hello. I have a partially built-up gas installation, pipes are welded. No control is objectionable. They are only interested in threaded connections and valves. Greetings.

waldekel · Accepted Answer

Issuing a report without the appropriate authorization is a serious matter. I don't think a normal mind would do that. You can always check whether a given person has permissions, and should show them on request.

unitral · Accepted Answer

Since he wasn't doing the pressure test, he wasn't doing it at all.
Such an installation should not be commissioned and approved for use.
After the pressure test, an appropriate protocol is issued.
If you do not have it, order him to fix everything and ask him for a copy of the permissions and entry in the company records.
If he does not repair or give the papers, report the dishonest contractor to the Consumer Ombudsman and the Chamber of Crafts - or something.

You can plaster your welded steel pipes, just make a plan (handwritten and attach it to your apartment papers) if any changes are needed in the future ...

Added after 1 [minutes]:

What do you have on the bill?
Because it is very important when seeking claims.

mirrzo · Accepted Answer

There is a solution: install a thermal bath with a closed combustion chamber. Then the conditions change and only 6.5 m3 are needed In the kitchen, you may not be able to install it too. There are other regulations regarding cubature. You must have a very large kitchen.

mirrzo · Accepted Answer

So knock down that ceiling. It will be the cheapest. Here you have the guidelines for the cubature. Also read p. 2, You add the power of devices (from the nameplate), i.e. 930 W / m3 is valid

unitral · Accepted Answer

Nonsense on your bill. What is pipe lagging for?

unitral · Accepted Answer

Pipe cover - made of, for example, plastic or a strip of fabric, tightly adjacent to the pipe. So that the plaster does not come into direct contact with the pipe.
The cover is thin on the surface so that it will not fill with gas and will protect it from contact with the plaster.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

You can remove the ceiling and cover only pipes.

mirrzo · Accepted Answer

It should be as drawn in the project.
It can also be compared with the connection socket in a device, but it is not always an interpretation. It may be required more than on the device.
So the project!

unitral · Answer

Is the pipe brazed or crimped?
In both cases - apart from threaded connections, the pipe can be built in, and it can even be plastered over.
Relevant standards on this subject will be provided by RIGIPS or KNAUF.
The requirement for the installation of gas pipes with GK plates is to fully fill the space behind the plate with fireproof mineral wool - the green one in the panes. This is ensured by the lack of chambers in which gas could collect after a leak from a leaky installation, which in turn will not lead to a possible "explosion in the wall", the gas will then go into the room where the gas sensor should be installed (however, this is not a requirement, only recommendation).

For 15 years, together with my father, I have been dealing with "Rigips", currently I run my own business related to the construction of GK.
I do not know Polish standards specifically, but since joining the EU, the EU regulations have been in force, and I have explained these to you.

If in doubt, ask the manager to present specific laws prohibiting development. It will not present, because there are no such.

Before the leak test, did you indicate to the inspector that you wanted to install the pipe? If so, an appropriate entry should be made in the acceptance and inspection report of the installation. Unless it is not required by Polish law.

In Austria, there are 2 inspections before the building is built, and after the building has been built, the commission may request detailed data on the building - including photos of the wall filling with mineral wool - the green one I mentioned. Personally, I have already opened the walls once, because the committee decided that they had to check the tightness once more, as they had not been provided with photos of the filling.

ps For a pipe running above a false ceiling, filling is not necessary.

In Poland, I have built these pipes many times and no one has ever said that this is not allowed, only one of the plumbers mentioned that it was once not allowed and some do not allow it, but in general, when the installation is "welded" - hard solder or a clamped connection, it is allowed .
Only the twisted closure is not allowed.

unitral · Answer

The unsealed screen is, among others, the GK board. As for the grooves, what's the difference whether the pipe will be in the groove under the plasterboard or on the wall under the plasterboard? But since in Poland it is not allowed to plaster copper pipes, it is a very strange thing, in Austria it is not allowed to plaster it if it is in a furrow. And how does the recipe apply to copper pipes covered with a jacket or thermal insulation? Perhaps for my colleague MM2X, crimped stainless steel pipes will be a better solution? waldekel Thank you for enlightening me And where are these recipes published, out of curiosity I will ask? PS, although I do not intend to return to Poland, I will remember this information for sure

unitral · Answer

I have already seen such installations where the gas pipe goes 10 cm from the wall vertically downwards and centrally behind the stove ... Would you like your stove to protrude 10 or 15cm in front of the rest of your furniture, with a huge gap behind the stove? Or a gas pipe 10cm above the counter that runs along the entire wall in the kitchen?

MM2X · Answer

Hard Feb. Currently, the matter is a bit complicated because the installer neglected and did not perform the leak test (???) - today a leak was detected on the soldered connection and, moreover, he led the pipe through the chimney wall (although between the ventilation ducts (in the protective sleeve), but according to the administrator, contrary to the regulations. It turned out that the installation must be done again. And here I have a question because I do not want to cut the countertop of the newly installed kitchen: 1 /. Is it a good idea to hide the pipe under the plaster (black + weld) - furrow + filling with cement mortar. And can it be hidden under the plaster on the chimney wall? 2 /. If there was a junkers stove in the apartment so far and now I want to install a gas stove as well - is it necessary to design a gas installation (this is what the administrator says)? Added after 8 [minutes]: Exactly, if the pipe goes under the ceiling (through the entire hall) then it enters the kitchen vertically down to the worktop (cutting the worktop!) + A tee to power the gas cooker (above the worktop). It is hardly an aesthetic solution. My assumption is, if it is possible to hide the pipe (in accordance with the regulations) why not do it. And because I am a layman in this topic, I am looking for the best solution.

unitral · Answer

Find a good company - it's best to ask the administrator who he will recommend.
You will surely come to an agreement and a well-made installation.
As for the passage through the chimneys - it is not allowed in this form.
Where does the leak come from? Did the "specialist" who did it have any qualifications? You have from him some confirmation of the installation - if so, you can order him to remove the fault and bring the installation to a state that complies with applicable standards (Warranty law). If he refuses (preferably in writing), you have the right to charge him for "repairing the installation".

Added after 2 [minutes]:

ps. cement mortar is not easily removable. Gypsum plaster or leveling plaster - e.g. Cekol gypsum plaster (I do not advertise it, but I know it personally in Poland).

MM2X · Answer

The tightness was checked with a sensor and in fact, in my presence, it did not show any leaks. However, according to the administrator, there was no leak test (under pressure). How do you think - will it be good to hide the pipes completely under the plaster? (black welded). The contractor left a protocol + bill which shows that there was a leak test ???. Another thing, however, is that it probably does not have the authority to perform the leak test, but only to perform the installation?

MM2X · Answer

Exactly. Yesterday, the administrator turned off the gas installation completely (+ protocol) and presented the relevant regulations, which show that in the case of moving the stove from the bathroom to the kitchen, a project is required (unfortunately, I will not skip that, on the other hand I want everything to be lege artis). The stove has to be moved because the cubature of the bathroom is smaller than 8 m3. After collecting a few necessary documents, I will commission a project - how much does it cost? maybe you have orientation. I will send an appropriate letter to the contractor to comment on the situation and ask for authorization. Added after 8 [minutes]: Exactly. Yesterday in the technical department I received information that it is practically not used to lay steel pipes welded under the plaster because each plastering mortar causes corrosion of these pipes (lime or other component). However, I would really like to cover these pipes (or rather my girls), which assume that the stove itself disfigures the kitchen. Maybe you have experience in this field? After this installation is done, I can take photos and additionally a sketch. I think that laying such a pipe under the plaster on the wall, where the ventilation ducts are, will not be a problem anymore? Added after 6 [minutes]: On the bill it says: assembly of the bathroom stove along with the material. On the protocol: Reg. MIn Internal Sp. of August 16, 1999 on the technical conditions of use of residential buildings, item 836 Installation tested for tightness with compressed air under pressure 1 /. 0.05 MPA for 30 minutes 2 /. 5kPa for gas meters with gas appliances for 15 minutes. It is found that the test did not show a pressure drop

MM2X · Answer

Unfortunately, this variant was considered at the beginning (administrator's hint), but the bathroom, after being carefully measured, is less than 6 m3. The previous tenant made the modernization (lowering the ceiling + other ...) at the cost of over 2 m3. The kitchen is connected to the hall, but even without it it is over 8 m3.

MM2X · Answer

It is not possible to remove the ceiling at the moment - longer topic (neighbor's pipes)

unitral wrote:
Nonsense on your bill.
What is pipe lagging for?

I do not really understand - is the provision regarding the installation of the stove unjustified? When it comes to the lagging, is it not about the pipe being tightly "covered" with the mortar - then when the pipe is unsealed, the mortar is an additional seal? - although it may sound funny. And in the event of a leak in the pipe with the cover, the gas can fill the space between the external surface of the pipe and the wall /.
Are there any regulations governing the installation of steel pipes under plaster?

MM2X · Answer

OKAY. In fact, you can, for example, use a silver insulating tape, the one that is used in automotive technology, a similar one. If the black pipes are welded (under the plaster), what should be the diameter for the supply of the junkers and the kitchen stove - 3/4?, Because 1/2 will be too little ?.

MM2X · Answer

Approx. I am waiting for a project.

MM2X · Answer

The design did not cover the plate, the designer suggested that it would be better so that there would be no problems. Installation done.

Gas pipe covered with gypsum board, compliant with regulations?

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