What cables should be installed before plastering in a smart building?

Hello,

I’m in the process of building a house. I really like some of the smart home ideas based on a PLC controller, but I think a better solution for me would be to base it on a higher-end SATEL model. But that’s not the point.

Given that I wouldn’t want to end up with an automatic roller blind and an illuminated toilet seat activated when the fridge door closes, whilst having no money left to lay the tiles, my aim is to just lay the cables . I have a few questions here (they may seem trivial or silly, so please answer in simple terms where possible)

1 Instead of YTDY 4*0.5 mm² cable, can I always use UTP twisted pair cable as a substitute if there are 2 wires missing?

2 If I want to control the lighting in selected rooms via the System, should I run a separate cable „from the light fitting” to the distribution board and run twisted pair cable from the sockets separately, and buy low-voltage light switches? Will Satel support something like this?

3 If the answer to question 2 is YES, should I be concerned that the Satel control panel operates on 12V, whereas from what I’ve read, most people buy 24V light switches?

4 The issue of roller shutters. The only thing that is certain is that they will be Integra type, so I haven’t decided / I don’t know if I have a choice as to whether the motor should be 220V or low-voltage. Here I’m asking for advice on what would be better for the SATEL system and, if possible, which type would be best and most economical (I know there are some smart ones that sense resistance and adjust the ‘force’ themselves). ?

5 And an additional question to 4: where in the Integra roller shutter system will the motor be located, and where should I run the cables to control it via SATEL? To the motor, or to the location of the roller shutter lowering and raising mechanism, which is independent of the system? Perhaps I need to run a cable to the motor and a low-voltage one to the ‘roller shutter switch’? Or is there a completely different solution and I’ve just made the problem up?

6 I would like the roller shutter to be able to be raised, lowered and stopped in any position via the SATEL controller; is that possible? I’ve read that people have had problems with this. If SATEL can’t do this, could manually adjusting the position affect the stored position?

1. Twisted-pair cable is a good signal cable for most applications, and is usually the cheapest option. For most, but not all – Satel does not recommend it for its detectors, but instead recommends standard alarm cable with unshielded wires.

2. Use a 3x1.5 mm² cable from the light fitting to the distribution board and twisted pair cable from the switch to the distribution board. The switch can be a standard installation switch if you’re happy with the look. Satel will work with it, but do give Satel a miss. As an alarm control panel, it works best in... alarm systems. You can build simple logic functions on the inputs and outputs, but that’s about it. With the first non-trivial function, you’ll hit a brick wall due to a lack of capabilities and resources. Can you imagine, for example, calculating sunrise times to open the blinds?
You want to automate your home, not a toilet flush, so spend 1,000–2,000 PLN and buy a controller. Wago, or even cheaper, Fatek.

4. I don’t know which blinds you want to use, but: a blind is usually a very primitive contraption. You supply power in one direction and hold it for a time specified for that particular mechanism. This time is set on the controller with a 3–5-second buffer relative to the actual speed. If the blind reaches the end point early, it will stop at the limit switch, if it has one. If it doesn’t, it won’t do any harm either, as the motor is very low-powered. Movement in the opposite direction occurs when voltage is applied to a different terminal. Partial opening – applying voltage for a correspondingly shorter time. Standard implementation of manual control: short press of the button – starts movement in a given direction; if movement is already in progress – stops it. Long press – movement continues for as long as the button is held down. You’ll have a right faff implementing this on a Satel system...

5. You connect the roller shutter to a standard 3x1.5 mm²/400V cable. The roller shutter motor (230V) is a long rod that slots into the tube onto which the roller shutter curtain is wound. Of course, you’ll also need to run a cable (e.g. twisted pair) to the low-voltage switch if you want to operate the roller shutter manually.

6. The roller shutter mechanism works as described in point 4. You can, of course, control it by hand however you like, because you can see what you’re doing. Since the controller doesn’t know (in theory it could, but acquiring this knowledge isn’t cost-effective) what the two-legged smart alec has been up to and what position the roller shutter is in, if it is to automatically set it to a specific position – it first performs a calibration. It applies voltage for the duration of a full cycle to set it to the end position (if it was already there or reached it earlier – no problem, it will stop at the limit switch or be stopped mechanically). Then it applies voltage in the other direction for, say, 30% of the full travel, and you have the roller blind open (or half-closed) by 30%.

Once again, forget about Satel for home automation...

Thanks for the detailed reply. Generally speaking, all the issues have been explained thoroughly. ;-]

I do have a query regarding point 5
if you could post a simple diagram for the roller shutter showing: the controller, the distribution board, the 230V cable, the low-voltage cable, the motor, and the manual low-voltage switch, I’d be grateful


This is how I see it. A high-voltage cable runs from the distribution board to the roller shutter motor. That’s clear. From the roller shutter motor, there’s some sort of factory-fitted cable leading to the roller shutter control unit, and from the control unit, I run a low-voltage cable to the PLC or the Satel system is that right?



I’ll give serious thought to the advice about not controlling the house with Satel

Generally, before plastering, I’ll just want the cables laid out and ready for any solution, so that issue is already sorted

After plastering, I just want lighting and an alarm without implementing smart home logic for the time being.

The system will probably be developed in two phases as planned, so there will be time for the PLC later, unless I find the funds.

The dilemma is simple
I installed the alarm system at my parents’ house myself (after consulting and getting approval from a specialist) and it works great; I’d probably manage with expanders and simple logic as well – that’s why I was thinking of this as the basis for SATEL. I know that PLC solutions are virtually limitless (e.g. plc-home.pl) but require more knowledge and familiarity with the subject.
It would be an option if I could find someone knowledgeable who would undertake the implementation and factor into the price the fact that the cables would already be in one place

Here you have the Zamel SRM-10 roller shutter controller - a classic solution (230V), based on a modular unit for the TS35 rail.

Download and study the manual for this controller, and everything should become clear. It contains the connection method, a block diagram of the controller, the concept of local and central control, a trick for programming the roller shutter movement time, and timing diagrams.

The situation will be identical if you replace this controller with a Satel or a PLC controller. The local and central control circuits can be replaced with low-voltage ones, as this is easier and safer. You’ll need to implement the two relays from the Zamel internal diagram externally. And then implement the algorithm described in the manual.

Mr Zazul has answered all the questions in full

Thank you, the thread can be closed