An affordable and simple smart home system with broad device compatibility

Hi,
I’m currently building a house and am looking for a smart home system. Can you recommend something that’s reasonably cheap and easy to use, with plenty of devices that can be easily connected to the system?

Z-Wave is sure to meet your expectations. The cost of such an installation is around 4,000–7,000 for an average-sized house, depending on what you want to automate. You’ll be able to handle the operation and configuration yourself. An electrician will carry out the installation. Z-Wave has around 200 manufacturers, so the range of devices available will certainly meet your requirements.

I recommend the website zhouse.pl , where you can find out more.

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about this and I’m not sure what I need to buy. If I’ve understood correctly, it’s all based on http://www.zhouse.pl/index.php/sklep?page=sho...naru.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=6?

Generally speaking, yes. You buy a Vera server and then the actuator modules for whatever you want to automate (switches, dimmers, roller-shutter controllers, radiator valves, etc.). All in all, this server is a real workhorse – you can install some great virtual modules on it for pinging phones, as well as astronomy and weather modules.

Take a look at the structure Smart Home , and you’ll find a simple solution for a modern system. You can expand it in any order, depending on your ideas and the resources at your disposal.

I own a Fibaro system myself and can recommend it 100 per cent. The system is very easy to install and is wireless, so there’s no need to make any alterations to the layout of the house. You control the whole system using software installed on a laptop or mobile phone, whichever is more convenient for you. The whole thing is very easy and intuitive to use; changing the settings doesn’t require any help from customer support either – I’ve done everything myself so far and haven’t had any problems. Best regards.

I’ve also been looking into smart homes recently, as a client for whom I’m carrying out electrical work asked me for help. At first, I was interested in Fibaro, but after looking into the subject in more detail, I began to wonder how Fibaro differs from Zhouse. So far, the only differences I’ve noticed are the price, which is much lower in the case of Zhouse.

As for Fibaro – in what way is it supposedly better than Z-Wave? Perhaps the interface, because the system on which it’s all based is the same – even though the website goes to great lengths to boast that it’s a “system created in POLAND... by Poles and for Poles’. Apart from that, I’d love to find out more about Fibaro’s compatibility with other solutions and devices, as the website doesn’t mention anything about it.
A major advantage of ZHouse over Fibaro is certainly the choice on offer. A few servers, a few remote controls… There’s definitely something for everyone.

Hello,

As someone who works directly at Fibaro, I’d like to respond to the posts above.

First of all, I apologise for the intrusive advertising by one of our partners. We’re constantly trying to tackle this, but it’s difficult to explain to some people.

As for the substance of the matter.

Firstly, zhouse also sells the Fibaro system.
Secondly, Z-Wave is a communication protocol, not a system. Z-Wave, like KNX/EIB, is a standard on the basis of which devices communicate.

As a manufacturer, we do not feel very comfortable when a sales representative offering our products explains the facts inaccurately to potential customers.

Thirdly, there are currently over 500 manufacturers worldwide producing devices based on the Z-Wave protocol.
Unfortunately, only a few dozen of them make devices for domestic use; furthermore, of those few dozen, only a dozen or so produce versions of the equipment operating at the EU frequency.

Of those dozen or so, only a few are European companies – the rest are Chinese.

Fourthly, many of the European products on offer cannot currently be purchased because they are either still in the testing phase or have not yet passed Z-Wave certification.
Consequently, on the Z-House website, you will not be able to buy Polycontrol locks, Qees products or many others, as the manufacturer simply does not yet offer them.
As Fibaro is a member of the Z-Wave Alliance, we have all these products in our laboratory and are ready to support them as soon as they appear on the market. At the same time, I would like to point out that they will also be available to buy in our showrooms, but only once they are officially on sale.

Furthermore, for example, the controllers for Fakro windows (a Polish manufacturer of Z-Wave windows and roller blinds) support the ‘security’ frame, which means the Vera hub is unable to support them correctly – something that representatives fromhave absolutely no idea, and they seem to think that these devices will work correctly. A potential customer will only find this out once they’ve failed to configure them properly.

FibarGroup has been working with Fakro for several months, jointly refining the chip software, thanks to which their windows and roller shutters are correctly detected by our system.

Fifthly, the Vera control unit offered by Z-House is standard hardware based on a MIPS processor, and anyone can buy it without software from China, just like a normal computer.

Sixthly, the key to proper functionality is software that includes as many drivers and additional features as possible, so that the user doesn’t have to worry too much about it. Furthermore, the software should run stably and be prepared for any unexpected issues that an inexperienced user might cause.

More than a year and a half before sales began, Fibaro started work on a suitable version of the software for the NA401 platform; at that time, it was the only hardware with an integrated Z-Wave controller.
Today, our software has grown to such an extent that this hardware is unable to process all the implemented features on the fly.
That is why we will soon be launching the HC2, featuring a processor over 1,000 times faster, more memory, and so on, all housed in a beautiful aluminium casing and running the latest version of the software.
This is what the new HC2 will look like (of course, these are just renderings; official photos will be released on the launch day):
www.fibaro.com/proto/hc2_black.jpg
http://www.fibaro.com/proto/hc2_silver.jpg
And here’s the new software (some sections are still cropped out):
http://hc2online.fibaro.com/

Additionally I would like to explain why the official Fibaro retail network does not, and will not, stock products offered by certain Z-Wave device retailers.
WE WILL NOT SELL UNRELIABLE PRODUCTS.
As a member of the Z-Wave Alliance, we receive each Z-Wave device several months before its official launch and know exactly what it offers.

http://www.z-wavealliance.org/modules/iaCM-MCL/companyDetail.php?id=171

We have selected just a few devices from the entire range because, as a professional manufacturer and distributor of Z-Wave products, we do not want to have to explain to customers why something we have sold them is not working as expected.

Furthermore, when comparing devices manufactured by Fibaro, I suggest you examine the documentation and capabilities carefully. NO – and I emphasise NO – manufacturer currently offers such functionality. Our devices also feature additional memory (which affects production costs), allowing you to pair three times as many devices as with the competition. A simple, standard dimmer has nearly 10 customisable parameters implemented, and you can connect an additional button to it to control anything.
(This is solely to enable more complex scenarios that might occur to our customers)
So please understand that you cannot compare products without knowing their specifications.

I don’t think I need to mention mobile interfaces, as no other system currently comes close
It can be controlled via iOS, Android, Symbian and Windows, and gestures also work in native apps.
For further details, please visit:
http://fibaro.com/index.php?ID=interfejs

As for our additional product range, please take my word for it: as a company currently operating 23 showrooms and a fully automated production line (with a capacity of over 10,000 cph) in the country, we would certainly be keen to sell other Z-Wave devices, but customer satisfaction, long-term cooperation and recommendations from satisfied customers are more important to us than short-term profit.

Furthermore, we know exactly which devices will appear on the market over the next few months from companies that nobody is talking about yet, which is why we prefer to wait for the launch of some sensational new products.

As for the small number of technicians, the situation is that each of our showrooms is currently organising training courses. Each partner trains around 20–30 electricians per week. To date, we have already trained over 1,500 installers. A series of advanced training courses for alarm system installers and system integrators will begin shortly. We warmly invite you to take part. Information will be available from our partners; a list of them is provided below:
http://fibaro.com/index.php?ID=gdziekupic

To summarise the installation process, the idea is that it shouldn’t have to be carried out by a specialist – who are usually few and far between – and, moreover, some charge specialist rates. Any qualified electrician or ‘power user’ can install Fibaro, as the installation is very straightforward. You don’t need to be a certified Z-Wave installer, and if you need to change or reconfigure a scene, all you need to do is log in to the hub – the interface is really quite straightforward.

Dear Sir. Firstly, you are insulting us as engineers with your official statement that we have no idea what we are talking about. This comes two weeks after we signed a cooperation agreement between competing companies.

If this is how an official representative envisages cooperation, we shall not fail to share the facts that we have been trying to keep hidden out of a desire for cooperation between competing companies.

Namely, we are receiving requests for help from all over Poland because Fibaro control units are starting to act up, and people cannot get any assistance from the manufacturer. It is we who are grappling with the problem of rectifying this company’s technical faults. We, too, have already repaired more than one control unit that the manufacturer was unable to deal with.

This is just a brief note from us, and we do not intend to engage in a more in-depth discussion with you. So please forgive us if we’re not keen to comment on any further allegations, as we have plenty of work repairing the ‘supposedly non-existent’ faults of a certain well-known company.

Added after 3 [minutes]:

Besides, there are around 500 products, not manufacturers – something you, as a specialist at head office and a member of the Z-Wave Alliance, ought to know perfectly well, but I can see you’re not up to speed on the subject.

Dear Sir, I have absolutely no intention of offending you. If you have taken offence, I would like to offer my formal apologies.
Nevertheless, please bear in mind that it is not entirely appropriate to offer an uninformed user a product operating in the ‘security’ class when the access point does not support that class.
The only option then is to bypass the system, which may adversely affect the operation of the devices.
All devices responsible for access control, in particular locks and door-opening mechanisms, should operate in this class.
As regards roller shutters, some flexibility has been allowed here. However, if a manufacturer has decided to introduce such a solution, it is good practice to make use of it and provide the customer with the full range of options.

As for the number of companies, there are actually 500 companies with around 200 products – mea culpa;)

Furthermore, please believe me when I say that we do not in any way regard you as competitors. I am actually quite astonished that you take this view.
You sell Z-Wave-based products and integrate them in various ways.
We produce a ready-made, closed-system package for the customer’s comfort and the convenience of installers. I see this more as a symbiosis between manufacturer <=> retailer.
Please bear in mind that not every electrician is as technically advanced as you gentlemen, and won’t install a full Z-Wave-based automation system for a customer; that’s why we offer a ready-made solution. You don’t need to know anything about it – you just plug the device in and it’s meant to work. Remote access is designed to work without any configuration and without a static IP address, whilst control via text message should not require an additional module.
(In this video, at 42 seconds, you’ll see how to connect remotely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mn0KzcPfo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL )
Installing Fibaro is as simple as taking the device out of the box, plugging it in, defining the rooms, adding the devices, and that’s it.
As you’ve probably noticed, in the new HC2 interface we’ve implemented advanced scenes that are created using simple building blocks.
With the Vera control panel, to build a complex scene taking into account the time of day, the weather, several sensors and several devices, you had to write a script. The average person has no idea about this and doesn’t want to. So, if it isn’t necessary, let’s not force them to call in a specialist just to change the way the lights are switched on, for example, in the corridor.

As for the suggestion that our control units are starting to take on a life of their own, this is news to me. It’s strange that we haven’t received any such reports from authorised retailers...
As of today, we have just under 1,100 control units installed in Poland, and the only issues we’ve had from customers relate to setting up dependencies and scenes.
However, we must remember that a smart home will only be as smart as the person who teaches it to be so.
If someone sets up a scene so that a light bulb comes on for 10 seconds when a reed switch is triggered, it should come as no surprise that it switches off once that time has elapsed and they have to switch it on again.
Or, for example, if we associate all the roller blinds in the building with a dimmer switch, it should also be obvious that when we switch off the light, they will close.

To resolve the misunderstanding that has arisen between us, I would like to offer you a version of the software (free of charge) for Fakro modules that is compatible with the Vera control unit.
If you are interested, please contact our technical department in Poznań.

Dear Sir, It’s difficult to discuss technology with the marketing department here. I base this conclusion on the fact that, judging by your comments, you haven’t actually held a Vera in your hands. I find this surprising because the Fibaro hub is essentially a Vera with a modified GUI, so you have several dozen Vera hubs in stock. All you need to do is pick one up before the GUI was modified to get to grips with the subject.

As for the lack of support for the security class, please rest assured. Vera does support it. After all, their software has been in use for several years (unlike yours) and must accommodate not only European locks, gates and roller shutters, but also American products in the security class. The Vera gateway is officially being showcased at the trade fair by Fakro, so please rest assured about compatibility. But to put your mind at ease, I’ll ask for an official statement from Fakro’s engineers.

You’re talking here about advanced scenarios using simple blocks, security-class operation, software without a static IP, and so on. I assume you realise that you’re describing the Vera server? Please don’t make things up here.

And please don’t get me wrong here. We appreciate the GUI you’ve developed here. It’s aesthetically pleasing, and some customers are willing to pay an extra 1,500 zł for the server just for the GUI itself, but let the customer be aware of that.

I also understand that your role as a marketer will be to discredit the Vera server because, once people find out that it’s the same device with a modified GUI and rebranded as Fibaro, sales might drop.

Please also do not insult the intelligence of the people reading this by suggesting that you are closing the system for the convenience of installers and customers. Closing the system is done with the aim of monopolising the open standard, so that no other manufacturer can sell on the Polish market without Fibaro’s mark-up.

Our company specialises in bringing to market a solution that has been operating worldwide for several years now. We’re not going to reinvent the wheel here, as the manufacturers have done a brilliant job of creating a system where 500 devices work together seamlessly. You say you have 1,100 servers in Poland? Brilliant. Congratulations on your sales figures in your first year of operation. Vera already has 30,000 satisfied users worldwide. And believe me, they’re not advanced programmers, as you describe them.

So perhaps you could try to prove to them just how wrong they were not to buy your add-on for 1,500 zł. I recommend doing so on the official forum – forum.micasaverde.com

Quote:

Fifthly, the Vera switchboard offered by zhouse is standard hardware based on a MIPS processor, and anyone can buy it from China without the software, just like a normal computer.

Indeed. Just like yours. Link vs. link . Looks familiar?

P.S. If you have a working version of the software for the Fibaro control unit, we’d be very interested in getting in touch with your technical department.

Unnecessary posts and ‘users’ commenting in this thread have been removed.

Dear Sir

you are not speaking to the marketing department. I am an engineer working at head office, in the research and development department. I personally tested several dozen Z-Wave devices at the request of my superiors, as they were due to be launched on the market.
Why do you think they aren’t available...?

I find your suggestion that I haven’t actually held a ‘Vere’ in my hand rather offensive… Sir, we’ve had the NA910 in the laboratory since January – which, for you, is the ‘Vere 3’ – and you won’t see it on the market for another month or so.

Once again, I would ask you to show a little professionalism and not to mislead customers. Fibaro is not just any GUI. It is heavily modified software, based on the same hardware, whilst the layout has followed suit with changes at a lower level.

If you were as well-versed as you claim (as a certified Z-Wave installer – incidentally, this is the first I’ve heard of such certifications; who issued it to you?)
then, according to your theory, Vera should also be an overlay.
Both the Vera and HC Fibaro systems run on the Linux MCE system, which, in Vera’s case, has been extended with LuaUPnP and rebuilt to use files instead of database storage. This is precisely due to the hardware limitations of the NA401.
This device cannot handle large databases due to its limited processing power. We can already see how this hardware behaves.
The ‘server busy’ message is caused by the system resetting the controller twice, and the system waiting for it to boot up again because it needs to process scripts during that time.
The time taken to load the file and start Z-Wave alone is between 9 and 11 seconds.
And on the NA401, there’s no other way to do it. We agree with micas on this, and it’s beyond our control.

Fibaro, using the NA401 platform so as not to reinvent the wheel, utilises the software developed by micasaverde. How do you think the Polish version of the Very software suddenly appeared???
That is why Lua scripting is available with us.

Regardless of this, I’d like to emphasise once again that 70% of the engine has been written by us from scratch; the rest consists of Linux MCE and LuaUPnP.

The MCE licence is open enough that any manufacturer can base any platform on it.

Just as is done with routers or other similar devices.

Taking your theory further, one might think that D-Link, Linksys and others are all just skins because they run on the same engine. In fact, they even have the same executable commands under the interface.

Sir, please stop spreading such heresy, as you are bringing yourself into disrepute within the industry.
Moreover, the very fact that you registered under several usernames, baselessly ‘bashing’ Fibaro to such an extent that even the moderator had to intervene by deleting your posts, is evidence of very underhand tactics!

Fibar Group (the manufacturer of Fibaro) employs many engineers specialising in automation, electronics and software at various levels.
As engineers (several of us have had accounts on Elektroda for many years), we find such behaviour deeply offensive. We are enthusiasts creating products in Poland, in a very challenging market, and time and again we see nothing but aggression from so-called ‘businessmen’ who import goods from China, sell them at rock-bottom prices, and undermine domestic production!
What’s more, when it comes to confrontation, venom and hostility spew from all sides.

Max25 wrote:

As for the lack of support for the ‘security’ class, please rest assured. Vera does support it. After all, their software has been in operation for several years (unlike yours) and must cater not only for European locks, gates and roller shutters, but also for American security-grade products.. The Vera gate is officially being showcased at the trade fair by Fakro, so please rest assured regarding compatibility. However, to put your mind at ease, I would like to request an official statement from Fakro’s engineers.

If you still maintain that Vera supports the ‘Security’ class, please could you specify which one?
Furthermore, it cannot support European locks because they aren’t available yet!
I know that Fakro is showcasing Vera at trade fairs, but that’s for a different reason – there isn’t another gateway yet (or there wasn’t when they started)!
We attend Z-Wave training sessions together with Fakro and we know what sort of surprises crop up…

Max25 wrote:

You’re talking here about advanced scenarios involving simple blocks, support for the Security class, software without a static IP, etc. I assume you realise you’re describing the Vera server? Please don’t make things up here, lads.

Right, then please paste a link or a screenshot showing these features

Set up a scene where the light switches on when a motion sensor is triggered between 6 pm and 8 pm and the blinds in the living room close, and where the blinds close when it’s raining during those hours.

Please demonstrate simple remote access from a mobile phone without a static IP address (do you maintain a server cluster for this service for your clients’ needs???)

If I’m overthinking this, please show me how you send text messages to the Vera hub and switch off the light in the living room without any additional modules? Will the hub send you a confirmation message? Will the customer receive a text message if the temperature drops or the garage door is opened???

I’d love to see that, and I’m sure other readers would too. It would mean that the first Polish company to offer such capabilities in a wireless system had been doing so for several months for no reason. After all, the zhouse shop offers this straight away to everyone...

Max25 wrote:

And please don’t get me wrong here. We appreciate the GUI you’ve developed here. It’s aesthetically pleasing, and some customers are willing to pay an extra 1,500 zł for the server just for the GUI itself, but let the customer be aware of that.

I also understand that your role as a marketer will be to discredit the Vera server because, once people find out that it’s the same device with a modified GUI and rebranded as Fibaro, sales might drop.

I’ll leave that without comment. The explanation above covers the matter fully.

Max25 wrote:

Please also do not insult the intelligence of those reading this by suggesting that you are closing the system for the convenience of installers and customers. The system is being closed off in order to monopolise the open standard, so that no other manufacturer can sell on the Polish market without Fibaro’s mark-up.

Now you’ve really gone too far...
Who here is insulting the intelligence of the readers? Why are you distorting the facts? We have developed a ready-to-use system. We do not offer unstable solutions. The fact that you’ll foist a sensor on a customer that doesn’t properly support associations is your problem, and you’ll have to explain yourself for it.
We won’t subject the customer to stress. We choose reliable solutions. We have the budget to test them over several days; we break them and repair them, pushing them to their limits. Of course, we can’t predict everything, but it is precisely through such tests that we eliminate equipment that might cause problems.
Not you! Does that suggest a monopoly? Absurd.
Furthermore, I’d like to remind you that these devices will also be detected by our switchboard and will function in exactly the same way as they do on the Vera switchboard.. But you can’t buy them from us.

Max25 wrote:

Our company specialises in bringing to market a solution that has been operating worldwide for several years now. We’re not going to reinvent the wheel here, as the manufacturers have done a brilliant job of creating a system where 500 devices work together seamlessly. You say you have 1,100 servers in Poland? Brilliant. Congratulations on your sales figures in your first year of operation. Vera already has 30,000 satisfied users worldwide. And believe me, they’re not advanced programmers, as you describe them.

And how do you know what sort of device they’ve made? For example: a motion sensor with a built-in thermostat whose battery runs out after three months? Or perhaps a wind sensor that doesn’t support Z-Wave at all and can only be used to close a window?
Or perhaps an energy consumption meter which, due to faulty shielding, jams the signal and is practically useless in a natural environment.

Comments like these reveal just how much experience you have in the industry.
You’re setting the customer up for a fall – it’s scandalous!

Vera has sold 30,000 devices?? And what makes you say that? Surely not based on the control unit numbers, because if so, that suggests they aren’t assigned chronologically and are sourced from a dozen or so manufacturers. It’s them who assign those numbers, not Micasa!

Do you need to be an advanced integrator to use Vera? Please show me the screenshots I asked for earlier – the customers will decide for themselves.

Dear Sir. In keeping with the principle of ‘I won’t argue with a horse’, I shall not respond to your accusations. You have already demonstrated your aggressive attitude on other forums. And I don’t have time to argue with you for another three pages and prove that an elephant has a trunk, because, as I’ve already told you, I’ve got a lot of work to do.

I’ll just say this much. You’re talking about products that have sold several hundred thousand units worldwide (and I’m not basing this on serial numbers). According to you, nothing works unless Fibaro has had a hand in it.

As I said, please go and explain to the 12,000 registered users on the official Micasa forum just how unstable this solution is.

If you consider a discussion based on facts to be aggression, then there really is no point in continuing the discussion.

Finally, I’ll just add that quantity does not indicate quality.
Does the fact that, for example, Škoda sells far more cars than BMW or Audi mean that Škodas are the best? What absurdities are you referring to...

As for the fact that you have not addressed any of my points on their merits, I shall leave that without comment…

An arc that is stretched too tight will snap.


I am closing