Fibaro vs zHouse - owners' comparison: daily use, failures and setup cost?

Hello

I’ve read loads of posts about the Fibaro and zHouse systems, as well as the back-and-forth between representatives of the various systems, and so on.
That’s why I’m addressing this question to people who ACTUALLY OWN these systems.
What’s it like using them in everyday life? What are the downsides of each system?

What happens if, for example, the system fails? Can you switch on the light with a switch, or does nothing work?

What were the costs involved in setting up the system? Roughly how many devices were there, and what was the total cost?

Best regards,
Wojtek

Hello,

As regards Fibaro and our miniaturised actuator modules, these are installed directly beneath the switch for the light, roller shutters, etc.
In terms of actuator operations, the system operates in three modes:

1 – full functionality: HC is working, all modules are operational, network access is available, etc.
2 – autonomous module functionality: the HC is not working (it’s broken, burnt out, stolen ; the modules still communicate with each other (they’ll inform each other that the HC is ‘dead’) and, to a limited extent, undertake specific actions independently. Each module has around 10 programmable functions and can be linked to 16 other devices, creating a fairly robust logic of interconnections.
3 – Direct functionality: If the HC is down, 90% of the devices in the building will not work (part of the power supply has been cut off, the building is on fire, etc.). Devices that are still powered can be switched on manually (if they are linked to others, they will continue to attempt to send commands to them by changing the routing and trying to communicate at all costs); whilst being switched on or off manually, the device will behave as if it were not there. So, using the switch, we’ll turn on the light as normal

As for costs, please visit our showrooms:
http://www.fibaro.com/index.php?ID=gdziekupic
our sales representatives are sure to offer attractive discounts:)

Thank you for your reply. So, in the event of any fault, my wife will switch on the light herself

It’s just a shame that so few people who have this system at home are posting here.
In that case, I’ll be the first

I bought a few control devices from ZHouse. My opinion:
- VERA2 – works flawlessly and I have nothing but good things to say about it,
- roller shutter control modules (Fibaro) – fine, they work and nothing’s crashed yet ,
- on/off modules (I have both single and double ones, also from Fibaro) – they probably work well (I hope so), but I’ve got quite a significant problem with them. Everywhere I look, it says that such a „flush-mounted module installed in an electrical box, under a switch or socket” (quote from the website) should work without any modifications to the wiring and without any connection issues. For example, I’ve been living in a newly built house for two months. The wiring is supposedly new. Of course, I can’t say it’s been done perfectly, because anyone who’s ever built a house knows what it’s like to work with tradespeople and how they’re supposed to know everything. I’m not an electrician. However, I’ve been on building sites more than once and have seen what a standard single-phase domestic wiring system looks like (a three-core cable – live, neutral and earth/protection – I hope I haven’t got anything wrong… . However, with this sort of installation, I won’t be able to connect the appliances I’ve bought, because I still need a fourth wire – the neutral!!! I only found this out when I rang Zhouse to ask for help with the connection, as I don’t know how to hook it up. I’m not sure what to do about it yet… Home automation was supposed to be my hobby, not my biggest problem, and so far these devices costing 2k (I’m only counting the ones that aren’t connected ) have been lying around unused for over a month now…
I’ll leave aside the fact that, after receiving the devices, I couldn’t for the life of me add them to VERY (I’m talking about the Fibaro devices, as the AEON added itself without any problems). After a few days of struggling, I sent the Fibaro devices back to Zhous (where I’d bought them). When I received them back, they added themselves without any trouble. Apparently it’s my fault, even though I did exactly the same thing as the first time… (I’m not judging anyone, though – I’m no expert on this).
As for my overall opinion regarding the sale itself:
- I waited over two weeks beyond the agreed delivery date for the devices,
- I received some devices in open boxes without user manuals,
- some of them showed visible signs of use (as if someone had used a screwdriver that was too big to secure the cables),
- I was promised that various apps would be installed on Vera; to this day (about a month after delivery), nobody has done this,
- I was promised help with setting up the Vera to use the internet connection from my laptop; they’ve already managed to connect my home to Wi-Fi…
- I’ve been asking for an invoice for over a month,
- I’m now waiting for help with connecting the switches and dimmers (there’s a problem with the neutral wire), but Zhouse is busy…
Overall, I’d rate my contact with Mr Maciej as ‘good with a minus’ (perhaps a bit of a stretch…) . He does answer his phone, which makes me feel as safe as is possible. All I can do is wait until he finds the time and someone finally helps me with this…

Added after 25 [minutes]:

By the way, I used to think that in a three-core cable where we have phase, neutral and earth, it’s the ‘neutral’ that’s the neutral conductor, but I suppose I’m not much of an electrician after all...

Thanks for your reply!
So it’s not quite as straightforward as that, is it? ;/
I’m also really surprised about that fourth neutral cable. Can’t you just ‘bridge’ it with a normal neutral wire from the wiring?

From what I understand, did you also buy Fibaro equipment from Zhouse?
I’m leaning towards the whole Fibaro kit. I’ve already booked a demonstration at one of the Fibaro outlets in Poznań. I’ll have a look at it in person.

Apparently, it can’t be bridged. I’ve received this information from both Zhouse and Fibaro. The gentleman from Fibaro simply told me that: “The dimmer has the capability to be powered without a neutral wire in the junction box.” – whatever this DIMMER is (probably some manufacturer)...
Yes, I bought a Vera from Zhouse, along with AEON dimmers, single and double switches, and FIBARO roller shutter controllers. When I decided on the Vera as my control unit, I was under the impression (based on information from Zhouse) that Fibaro was a closed system (ZHouse even wrote this somewhere on Elektroda). So I was convinced that if I bought a Fibaro server, I wouldn’t be able to connect any Z-Wave devices to it apart from those made by Fibaro... In fact, it seems that all these devices are pretty much the same and differ only in minor details (some are smaller, others larger; some are added by pressing a combination of wall switches, whilst others have an additional button; some are white, others black ). As far as I’ve managed to work out, the only difference seems to be in the server’s software. VERA and the Fibaro server are probably the same device, but the Fibaro one has a... GUI and apparently has some additional features as well. It seems a bit of a waste to pay extra for the software, but in this case, the software is what makes home automation so much fun. You pop the server somewhere out of sight, and it has a range (these servers don’t exactly look stunning – like an outdated AP ), and all the ‘work’ is done by the software.
What’s more, I read on the Fibaro website that a new server is due to be released, which I reckon will be a sort of Media Centre – it’ll be able to control the TV, and so on. A cool gadget… Someone rings the doorbell, and the TV switches to the feed from the doorbell camera… There’s some cool software for Vera too, but not for Vera itself, rather for whatever’s going to control it (I reckon the best ones are for all Apple devices, but there are some nice ones for Android as well). I’m just getting round to buying a tablet (and I reckon it’ll be an iPad), because at the moment I’ve got a Symbian phone, and they haven’t really released anything for it – apparently Symbian is a system that’s no longer being developed, etc...

I’ll manage the software bit. Once I’ve bought a tablet, the whole control process will be much more enjoyable. The bigger problem is connecting these control devices without an extra neutral wire... I don’t get it at all! I’ve never come across an installation that (with a single phase) has four wires. I don’t know what I’ll do about it, because at the moment I’ve only got the roller shutter controllers connected, and I could control those with a remote control.
You know how it is… “It was supposed to be so brilliant, but it turned out just like always…”

By the way, I’d love to meet someone who’s got this fitted at home. I’d love to see how it’s connected with that extra wire.
…and who actually has such a system at all. I’ve been told that my wiring is outdated, and that everyone already has a system with an extra neutral wire at home. The problem is, I don’t know what the author meant, but I haven’t seen such a system in anyone’s home, and I’ve carried out finishing work in residential construction, followed up on electricians’ work, been on building sites more than once, and practically wrote my PhD whilst rectifying the developer’s mistakes on my own house). I live in a semi-detached housing estate and everyone here has an ‘outdated’ wiring system. I previously lived in a flat on an estate, in a flat above retail and service premises, and in my family home. Everywhere, the wiring was ‘outdated’..

All these control units supposedly don’t require a 12V power supply (which is great), as they’re wireless, but the extra cable effectively means you have to chisel into the walls, etc. When everyone’s boasting about ‘no chiselling’, ‘using existing wiring’, and so on.
I hope someone more knowledgeable will chime in here and tell us what to do about it.

Well, that’s a laugh. I’ve been searching online and can’t find any information anywhere about 4-wire wiring in a standard installation

This post was created precisely to find people who have these systems up and running.

In Poznań, Fibaro has demonstration rooms featuring this system; I imagine you can also have a look at the installation there, etc.

I had a look at the Fibaro documentation. http://materialy.fibaro.com/instrukcje/relay%20switch%20FGS221%20v1_4%20eng.pdf .

The module requires a power supply: 2 wires. A further 2 wires to control 2 light bulbs. That makes 4 in total.
Unfortunately, switch boxes often have 3 wires connected to them. (The earth wire is irrelevant here).

A ‘dimmer’ is a ‘dimmer switch’. This is probably also the case in the Fibaro system. These modules http://materialy.fibaro.com/instrukcje/Dimmer%20FGD211%20v1_4%20eng.pdf have the handy feature of being able to close their power circuit via a light bulb connected to them. Unfortunately, they cannot control two light bulbs. Perhaps two modules?

That’s all the documentation. I don’t know what your installation looks like (how many wires there are and what sort are routed between the junction boxes), but a knowledgeable electrician should be able to sort it out.

Quote:

Although the wizards at Fibaro claim that an ordinary user can remove the switch, fit the module and refit the switch in 3 minutes.

Perhaps it really is 3 minutes.*



* (list of conditions in the small print)

Gentlemen,

Just to clarify: the 2 x 1.5 kW module is a dual-circuit unit, whilst the 1 x 3 kW module is a single-circuit unit. All our modules operate on a 3-wire system! Additionally, the dimmer switch can function as a switch on a 2-wire system. I don’t know where you’re getting these 4 wires from; cables like these are usually laid under the L and N wires:). For powering Fibaro, L and N are sufficient:)


We’re not responsible for technical support or distribution from Z-House; that company isn’t even listed here: http://fibaro.com/index.php?ID=gdziekupic

Mate, you can fit it into a 40mm box – no need to overthink it. We’ve even fitted them into British 25mm boxes in a flat in Warsaw (the bloke had those square British boxes); in that case, you simply use a hole saw to deepen the box. There’s no trace of it anyway.


Dawid_21
Send an email to Fibaro’s technical support: http://fibaro.com/index.php?ID=kontakt
and provide your details; you’re sure to get expert help.
What’s more, Fibaro isn’t a closed system; anything that works on the platform also works on Fibaro. It’s just that you won’t be able to buy certain devices from us that other retailers might offer you.

fidme wrote:

Just to clarify: the 2 x 1.5 kW module is a dual-circuit unit, whilst the 1 x 3 kW module is a single-circuit unit. All our modules operate on a 3-wire system! Additionally, the dimmer can function as a switch on a 2-core wiring system. I don’t know where you’re getting these 4 cores from; cables like that are usually laid under the floor:) L and N are sufficient to power Fibaro

This may mean you need to work on the technical documentation.
To clarify the situation: should these modules be fitted in a junction box under the switch or somewhere else?

OK, let me clarify so there’s no misunderstanding;)

We have L, which is the live/supply, we have N, which is neutral, and we have PE, which is the protective earth. It used to be the case that PE and N were a single PEN conductor and were called ‘zero’. Nowadays, ‘zero’ is used to refer to neutral, although some electricians make a distinction, saying that neutral is not the same as zero. This doesn’t change the fact that you’ll never find two different wires – neutral and zero – in a junction box or even in the entire installation. They’re essentially the same thing.

I hope everything is clear now. If anyone suggests there should be an additional wire (zero/neutral), they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.

The diagrams are clear to any electrician; I don’t know how it could be marked any more simply.

Regarding the question of where to install them:
You can install them wherever you like – whether under a switch, under a socket, or directly next to a light fitting. These modules are really small; we know of cases where customers have fitted (connecting a dual-circuit unit to both types of coffee) and use it, for example, in the ‘morning’ scene. The options are endless; you can connect it to an electronic thermostatic mixer tap, a gate actuator, solenoid valves for underfloor heating, an electric door strike, an alarm, etc. – it all depends on how creative you are.
The more creative you are, the more interesting the system you can build.

fidme wrote:

We have L, which is the live wire/power supply; we have N, which is the neutral; and we have PE, which is the protective earth...

Let’s leave that aside for a moment, because IMO that’s not where the problem lies.

fidme wrote:

Regarding the question of where to install it:
You can install it wherever you like, or under the switch

Three wires are connected to the two-circuit switch box (L + 2 bulb circuits). What type and how many wires connected to the box are required for the two-circuit module fitted in this box beneath the switch?

A 2x1.5kW dual-circuit switch requires not only a supply cable but also a neutral wire. It allows you to switch two circuits on and off.

A dimmer switch allows you to control a single circuit, but does not require a neutral wire; only the supply wire and the load wire are needed (see the wiring diagram for details). To connect two circuits, you must install two dimmer switches. As well as switching the lights on and off, dimmers also allow you to dim the light.

I just don’t understand what this 4-wire installation is all about. An ‘outdated’ installation is a 2-wire installation (phase L and protective-neutral PEN conductor). 3-wire installations are the ones currently being fitted. They consist of a live wire L (black or brown), a neutral wire N (blue) and a protective earth wire PE (yellow-green). I have exactly this type of installation and Fibaro works on it without any problems. I’m a bit surprised that you’re having trouble connecting the N to the on/off switch, yet you’ve managed to connect the roller shutter controller, which also requires a neutral wire.

krzychu8 wrote:

I’m a bit surprised that you’re having trouble connecting the neutral wire to the on/off switch, yet you’ve connected the roller shutter controller, which also requires a neutral wire.

krzychu8: if you’re replying to an earlier post, please quote it. I haven’t connected the roller shutter controller and I’m not having any problems with Fibaro.

Dawid_21 wrote:

I’m not an electrician. However, I’ve been on building sites more than once and have seen what a standard single-phase domestic wiring system looks like (a three-core cable – live, neutral and earth – I hope I haven’t got anything wrong…) . However, with this sort of installation, I won’t be able to connect the appliances I’ve bought, because I still need a fourth wire – the neutral!!! I only found this out when I rang Zhouse to ask for help with the connection, as I don’t know how to wire it up. I’m not sure what to do about it yet…

Hello. I’ve also done the wiring in my own home (deep junction boxes); I ran the power supply to the switch and then the output to the light fitting, so I have the neutral wire in the switch junction box. If anyone wants to fit such a module into an old installation – i.e. where the junction boxes are above the switches – the neutral wire is in that junction box and you can fit the module there. If someone has installed the wiring by running the supply wire to the light fitting and the return wire from the light fitting to the switch, then such a module can be fitted next to the light fitting...

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but either way, is it possible to fit such a module..?