What is the minimum temperature of hot water in the tap - norms

Hello

I have not found another department, so here I am asking my colleagues for help.

I was looking for and did not find information / legal regulation on what the minimum water temperature should be provided by the supplier. (not included in the contract)

The information is different, sometimes 55-60 * C, and I found a minimum of 45 * C. Until the nominal temperature is reached, up to 3L of water may flow.
I live on the top floor (5) in Warsaw and before it reaches the operating temperature it is 1L colder and about 2L warmer.

Nevertheless, the maximum temperature for me is 46 * C. In my opinion, this water is too cold (in another apartment in another district it flies around 60 * C)
I am asking for a standard or guidance on how to find. We pay a lot of money for hot water, and we get the summer + the 3L cold water at the hot price.

greetings
L.

Oh buddy. Is this temperature somehow legally regulated - I don't know. Basically, it is assumed that the DHW should be 50 degrees Celsius. It is just enough that it is comfortable for us.

I definitely cared about the norms and legal regulations. As the topic. We know it intuitively but thanks for your willingness.

I was able to find the recipes. I just don't know if the recipe is up to date
Reg. Min of Infrastructure from 2002.

1. In buildings, with the exception of single-family houses, farm buildings and individual recreation, a constant water circulation should be ensured in the hot water system, also in sections of pipes with a volume inside the pipe of more than 3 dm3 leading to intake points.

2. The hot water installation should ensure that the water temperature at the points of use is obtained not lower than 55 ° C and not higher than 60 ° C, ...

Does anyone know if the provision was amended?
greetings
L.

Yes. There is such a recipe and it is valid. I found him too, because I admit that you intrigued me with this question.

Hello.

What the service technician73 wrote numerically remains true. It is indeed so.

But ..... there was a short story.

The subject is regulated in detail in the Journal of Laws No. 56, item 461, points 16, of March 12, 2009, Reg. changing the technical conditions to be met by buildings and their location. Numeric - Temperature values have not changed. Thermal disinfection conditions have been added (extended). And that's it. However, for any scuffle, refer to this Journal - because the previous one, i.e. Journal 75, post 690 from 2002 has been amended.

It is also worth taking a look at Reg. Min. Infr. of April 7, 2004, No. 109, item. 1156. There, FINALLY, a list of the referenced Standards, including those relating to water installations, is attached. Referenced - that is, they have binding status, because they are part of the Construction Law.


As for your first post.

Indeed, 46 C this is not enough in relation to an actual norm. However, it is important when the building was built. As after 2002, fight for yours, referring to the above-mentioned Regulation - of 2002, because you are entitled to it by virtue of the law. As clearly before 2002, there could be trouble, because in 75, pos. 690 of 2002, there is still a paragraph 330.

The key is - when was the building built?

The amendment I wrote about concerned the entry from 1994, where the legislator defined the temperature range at 45-55 * C.

Thank you Cat-huncwot for pointing to the sources.

The building was built after 2002, I think 2007/2008. And the mere fact that 1-2 liters of hot water must have been flown into the canal before you can get into the shower is annoying.

At my friend's, from two years ago, there was a "commission" with measurement, because it was fighting for the same. She submitted an appropriate letter.
I don't know how much that is possible, but by a strange coincidence for a day or two, the temperature of the water rose significantly and she looked like an idiot.
How to do it in practice so as not to look like an idiot? The tap flies 46 * C and wants no more.

Do you have your local boiler room or city heat (GPEC, OPEC, etc.)?

Heat from the city. I won't say which supplier at the moment.

Picking a girl into a horse was (probably) easy. They raised the DHW TEMPERATURE for a MOMENTION on the domestic hot water controller in the substation.

If you want, then - I download the Law from the Sejm server - sejm.gov.pl. There is a tab: Internet System of Legal Acts. Only the search engine is lame. Without specifying no. You get this position with 100 results. It is worth catching plot 75, pos. 690 and the page displayed will also contain a list of amended acts and a list of amending acts. And you follow changing acts - that is, acts later in time. According to my knowledge, on 07. 2012 (then I was rummaging in the Law) there was no change. The last novel of the 75th is Journal of 239, item. 1597 of 2010. But there is only a change (renumbering) of the Referenced Standards. - because the Polish Committee for Standardization introduced the so-called unified numbering of the Standards, without touching their content.

This is professional jargon - when I say 75 I mean Journal of Laws No. 75, item 690 of 2002. Plus, of course, all the novels - well, but these are the amending acts - that I mentioned.

Like Warsaw - it's SPEC. But they don't screw up.

Kot-huncwot wrote:

Picking a girl into a horse was (probably) easy. They raised the temperature on the domestic hot water controller in the substation.

Bingo, I was thinking about it. In addition, they can control the timing and capacity of the circulation, which I suppose should be in the building.

If the building has 5 floors, there must be circulation. Another thing - whether it works. But in my opinion, yes. Warm or hot water after draining 3 liters would indicate active circulation.

Going in turn. Pipelines MUST be insulated. Circulation is supposed to work.

I will measure this temperature (Nowe Bemowo), because, for example, the family (Bródno) has real hot water that it burns and here it is lukewarm. At such a temperature of hot water, its consumption significantly increases.

There must be circulation, but 5-6m of water flows in the floor from the vertical on the cage to the tap. When I used to do a spout there, I saw that the pipe (I think pex) is a conduit.

I was looking for an amendment and only found nothing to change the subject.

Question how to prove in practice that the temperature is inconsistent with the standard . How to avoid a situation in which the commission raises the temperature on the regulator before the visit and smiles kindly in my face, and on the way back they restore the settings

Is it like that all day, or only at the peak of the partition?

Get yourself a binder.
Find as many people as possible - neighbors - who have the same problem.
Get a decent thermometer. Mercury, with a decent range, with accuracy class, and be sure to keep the temometer bill and the rest of the papers in a binder.
If the water is too cold, take commission measurements with your neighbors, record it, sign it and archive it in a binder that I mentioned. There are witnesses on a committee basis - because this is evidence in court - there are witnesses.

After a month, make a xero and send it by registered mail with confirmation of receipt to the Administration. Must be in writing. A letter with the date, letter number, correctly addressed and signed. necessarily with the so-called the so-called divisor. They receive - Administrator and a / a, i.e. ad acta. If you have a problem with it, find a friendly clerk - the accountant will also be good and let him make a model of such a journal for you. In the letter, one should demand that the water temperature be brought to the normative one, with reference to the relevant provisions, i.e. Journal AT.
There is a chance it will work. Offices are not afraid of talking and complaining of tenants. However, they are afraid of a specific, documented action. This should trigger an action on the part of the Administration.

To strengthen the seriousness of the matter, it may be worth looking for someone with qualifications in the industry.

I'm going to bed

Cat-marauder, thank you very much for comprehensive, practical information
You wrote that "How Warsaw is SPEC. But they are not screwing up"

So who is responsible for this state of affairs? It may be that the circulation in the building is not working properly? The pump works non-stop or is it controlled on the basis of temperature measurements at the most distant point? (or other criteria)

Austin - tomorrow. Because I won't make it home in time.

Sure, I'm not pushing. The case is not urgent, on the cito Thanks a lot.

Why such a stupid standard? After all, no one will bathe in water with a temperature of 55 to 60 degrees (60 degrees is already a burn) !!! In the past, it was the norm of 45-55 and it was much better (there was no risk of burns, and less energy was wasted).

Buddy Zbigniew Rusek,

The norm is the norm, and the evaluation of equity is not the subject of the thread.

The costs we incur for the supply, heating of water and sewage disposal are extremely high. I will not mention the relation to average earnings vs the EU.

The previous standard could remain, provided that the price is at least proportionally reduced. Because it is known that 45 * C is enough for economic purposes and transmission losses would probably be lower (smaller delta T).

But if the monopolist is charging himself dearly, then I expect quality to be kept. The lower the temperature of hot water, the greater its consumption until the same end temperature (cet. Parib.) Is obtained.

Greetings
L.

Witaski :-)

Please recognize who was building. Cooperative? Developer? Another ?

Is the building communal? Community? Who is managing?

austin007 wrote:

Cat-marauder, thank you very much for comprehensive, practical information
You wrote that "How Warsaw is SPEC. But they are not screwing up"

So who is responsible for this state of affairs? It may be that the circulation in the building is not working properly? The pump works non-stop or is it controlled on the basis of temperature measurements at the most distant point? (or other criteria)

Well then.

The person who manages the building, i.e. the Owner or Administrator, is responsible for the technical condition of the building. I would kick the administrator's ass. For the fact that the building does not meet the applicable requirements of the Polish Construction Law in terms of operational parameters - i.e. the DHW temperature.

Circulation installation

- there must be. From what you write, she IMO works. - 3 liters is not very much. Check in the middle of the night - if it gets warm just as quickly, the circulation works. Regardless of the technology (material) of domestic hot water pipes, they should be thermally insulated. This is also a requirement.

- the pump - as a rule - is on all the time, at a constant speed. The fact that there are technical possibilities to perform arbitrarily crazy control of such an installation does not mean that it was done. In the end, the Developer only beats the costs and the rest is there.

I would have to check the standards - but it seems to me that there is an obligation to use regulating (balancing) lift valves in the circulation system. These valves can be really fancy *. But any valve setting error, or the lack of a valve - cannot be the cause of water temperature failure in a longer period of time.

* if you are curious, step on the legs of the MTCV 15, or the vertical DHW control valve. Wonders pop up :-)

The spec, in my opinion, holds the building's power supply parameters. They have too many crooks on their backs to fail to make their financial claims for not meeting power conditions. Besides, they have improved a lot as a company in the last 15 years.

My way
- too low a setting on the DHW controller. This generates money for the Building Owner. Because SPECs pay from the heat meter, and the tenant pays from the water meter turnover.

Do as I suggest. Measure, signatures and send to Administration. if there is no reaction, then after two weeks - a reminder.

Something should have happened.

Great, tutorial It will be for generations.

The developer was building in times of low housing prices. As you rightly noticed, he was cutting costs as much as possible. Now developers care more about quality.

The building administrator is colloquially speaking "little kumaty" technically, and I don't think he did it on purpose. Rąbie, however, on subcontractors (large invoice, envelope under the table) - a well-known script.

I will take measurements as you wrote.

Thank you so much
greetings
L.

And also check whose heat node is. Does it remain in the possession (and conservation) of the Community? Or so ?
Has it been commissioned at SPEC?

But it's all worth little, anyway :-)

Be proactive with people. Acting in real life used to bring results.
As opposed to clicking on the net.

And yet - as bud from 2008/2009, refer to dz.u. 75, item. 690 from 2002. No change in numbers, but correctly from a formal point of view.

Well, I have not read such nonsense yet. And no one has denied it yet?
For future generations?
Probably a testament to ignorance.
1. WT and those of 99 and 2002 concern the design of hot water installations, and not the obligation to provide temperature. The owner or manager decides what water temperature he wants.
2. Ultimately, the cost of water heating is the cost of an inhabitant and is settled along with the settlement of water consumption. If someone writes that a cooperative or manager earns on it (nonsense), I refer to the energy law. If you have less hot water, you probably pay less for heating it, because the heat meter shows less GJ, so you use less GJ heat to heat 1 m3 of water. It is such an efficiency indicator. Of course, the price depends mainly on the heat supplier and the tariff, but most of the PEC, MPEC, OPEC etc. it is important to push as much of this heat into the installation as possible and to issue the highest invoice.
And to those who want 60 degrees Celsius and then chill it anyway with a cold tap or a mixer, I suggest knocking their heads. Heat losses are much higher when there is a large temperature difference between the installation and the environment, and then you mainly pay for the readiness.

A standard should be introduced stating from 45 to 55 degrees, with these 55 being the limit that cannot be exceeded, so that there are no BURNS.

I am also curious if people writing such nonsense, and probably living in a single-family house now, would report to PINB that they do not have hot water parameters, because they bathe, for example, in 38 degrees Celsius?

I only have a question, how far from the risers is this battery we are talking about?

InPresti stupidity, you unsubscribe. I pay PLN 25 for the heating factor of 1 m3 of hot water. The water temperature is about 39 degrees. So I prefer to have water at a temperature of 55 degrees Celsius and mix it with cold water than to heat it in a pot to add it to the bath. But that's not possible in the shower either.

Kot-huncwot wrote:

And also check whose heat node is. Does it remain in the possession (and conservation) of the Community? Or so ?
Has it been commissioned at SPEC?

And here may be a problem. It is important whether you have a heat exchanger and SPEC provides you with a high parameter, or no heat exchanger and SPEC supplies your building with a low parameter (there is an exchanger elsewhere).

ImPresti wrote:

I am also curious if people writing such nonsense, and probably living in a single-family house now, would report to PINB that they do not have hot water parameters, because they bathe, for example, in 38 degrees Celsius?

The provision does not apply to single-family houses

Added after 1 [minutes]:

sysolek wrote:

InPresti stupidity, you unsubscribe. I pay PLN 25 for the heating factor of 1 m3 of hot water. The water temperature is about 39 degrees. So I prefer to have water at a temperature of 55 degrees Celsius and mix it with cold water than to heat it in a pot to add it to the bath. But that's not possible in the shower either.

And at the neighbors, what is the temperature of the water? As is the case, raising the temperature will also increase the cost of m3 of hot water.

Most of the writers are probably deeply haunted, not realizing that water with a temperature of 60 degrees Celsius MUST be more expensive (and definitely!) than that with a temperature of 50 degrees. And they had theirs: that they would pour themselves cold water ......
and the like dyrdymały.
Heat is a commodity! The more of it in warm water (the hotter the water), the higher the cost of heating it. It is such a simple relationship that I am surprised by this ignorance.

These recipes are dumb. It should be specified that the MAXIMUM hot water temperature should be 55 ?, as from 56 ? upwards there may be (minor) scalding. It should be between 45 ? and 55 ? (this temperature requires mixing with cold water anyway). The minimum water temperature requirement of 55 ? is the probability of scalding, especially among children and elderly people (they do not always mix with cold water in the tap).