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Central Heating Water Temp Issues in Block of Flats: CO Meters, 52°C vs 80°C Input, 25°C Return

Roksa17 18216 11
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  • #1 17764587
    Roksa17
    Level 8  
    Posts: 6
    Can anyone tell me why this is happening ... I live in a block of flats, I have CO meters in my box. The meter shows that the CO water input is at 52 degrees, while the neighboring pipe has a temperature of 80 degrees. The neighbor, on the other hand, has 52 degrees on the return and I have 25. The heaters are turned on and the apartment is still underheated ...
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  • #2 17764590
    kindlar
    Level 42  
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    The neighbor is fed from the same riser?
  • #3 17764900
    Zbigniew Rusek
    Level 38  
    Posts: 3610
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    Is that the same building? Probably the whole building is supplied from one heat exchanger (sometimes long, multi-cage blocks have 2 CO connections). This is weird at all. Certainly these 80 degrees is too much (maybe if it were 20 or even 25 degrees below zero, the 80 degrees on the power supply would be appropriate). 25 on return - this is much less than body temperature. I see something that either cold water is getting somewhere and mixed with the heating one (hence the lower temperature), or the flow is so low there that the water cools down immediately (probably the pipe is in a cold place). In any case, something is wrong with the installation. Once in a building I encountered such a problem that in some rooms the flow was so low (silted branches) that the radiators did not heat up at normal parameters, and when the exchanger was overregulated and the supply was given at about 80 degrees, they started to heat up like Satan and to boil.
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  • #4 17764920
    Rezystor240
    Level 42  
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    Roksa17 wrote:
    The neighbor, on the other hand, has 52 degrees on his return


    If the neighbor (because you are connected to one riser?) Turns off the heater, what is the temperature at your place?
  • #5 17765154
    Roksa17
    Level 8  
    Posts: 6
    Rezystor240 wrote:
    Roksa17 wrote:
    The neighbor, on the other hand, has 52 degrees on his return


    If the neighbor (because you are connected to one riser?) Turns off the heater, what is the temperature at your place?

    I'll turn it off today and check it, but it was actually the last one and I was then 82 degrees, when it started, the temperature dropped to 52 ...

    Added after 4 [minutes]:

    Central Heating Water Temp Issues in Block of Flats: CO Meters, 52°C vs 80°C Input, 25°C Return Central Heating Water Temp Issues in Block of Flats: CO Meters, 52°C vs 80°C Input, 25°C Return

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    My counter is number 104 ...
  • #6 17766416
    piotr_boncza
    Level 29  
    Posts: 1058
    Help: 135
    Rate: 338
    Low flow in your part and high flow in his. Valves with red knobs are used to regulate the flow. It's best to ask the building administrator to send someone who knows and will adjust. Shooting just one / two can disrupt the rest and then the fun with the neighbors begins. It may also be that your radiators are overly choked.
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    #7 17766433
    BUCKS
    Level 39  
    Posts: 3820
    Help: 536
    Rate: 1084
    Roksa17 wrote:
    it was really the last one and I was 82 degrees then, when it started, the temperature dropped to 52 ...

    As for me, you are giving some abstract data.
    What 82 degrees of heating water ?? Under such conditions, the radiators would be hot and could burn you if you touch them.
    You may be reading some other data and mistaking it for flow and return temperatures in degrees Celsius.

    In general, it looks like your neighbor uses more water than you do, that is, has a higher temperature. Your water flow may be limited or the regulation of the block system is so messed up that there is not enough water for your apartment. If each of the neighbors regulates the flows on their own, then there can be circuses of this type.
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    #8 17766450
    piracik
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl  
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    No matter how the flow is choked, the flow temperature should be the same.
    The return temperature depends on the flow. But on such a short section of the supply, cooling down by 30 * C is almost impossible.

    Take a picture a little higher as it is on the power supply. Although there are probably no miracles there.
    Check that the cable from the heat meter goes to your tube. Maybe they are swapped?
    Check if the feed tube 104 is in fact yours.
  • #9 17766580
    Roksa17
    Level 8  
    Posts: 6
    Now there was a nice option ... Me, the neighbor on both sides of the central heating temperature. Supply the same, return too ... Only his apartment on our floor had 50 on the power supply and 20 on the return ......
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  • #10 17767170
    BUCKS
    Level 39  
    Posts: 3820
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    piracik wrote:
    No matter how the flow is choked, the flow temperature should be the same.

    My experience shows that the flow is important for the supply temperature, because if I did not have the right casing, the farthest radiator was noticeably cooler than those closest to the boiler through which more water was overflowing than it should have been. In other words, the farthest radiator received too little hot water and at the power input to the radiator, the plate was noticeably cooler at the valve insert, despite the fact that the radiator was open to the maximum. Only after proper blocking, the farthest radiator started to heat much more effectively.
    Only with me there is no constant supply of boiler water to the heaters at a constant temperature, because the boiler is timing, so the conditions are a bit different.

    piracik wrote:
    But on such a short section of the supply, cooling down by 30 * C is almost impossible.

    In this context, reducing the temperature to such a range seems virtually impossible, and the reported boiler water temperatures of 82 degrees are virtually unrealistic at temperatures above zero.

    However, in the context of the general underheating of the apartment, it is most often due to improper water flows through a specific part of the installation, because the radiators in other rooms or the neighbor consume too much water, more than the real demand of these radiators.
    Although you should consider why the neighbor unscrewed the flows at home too much, he probably noticed the problems with heating himself, he started to regulate himself, which improved himself and hurt his neighbors. Maybe it is the result of a poorly designed installation.

    That is why I prefer my own installation, because if necessary, I myself decide what and how to do it and I am not dependent on the good or bad will of my neighbor. If I screw up something myself, I can only blame myself, but with such joint installations, you can blame a neighbor who can completely ignore us, and without the good will of all neighbors, there may be a problem with finding a common solution, because often, where there are 6 cooks there nothing to eat ;-)
  • #11 17768114
    piracik
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl  
    Posts: 4060
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    BUCKS wrote:
    My experience shows that the flow has a bearing on the leaving water temperature

    The longer the installation, the greater the influence of the flow.
    Me from the text @ Roksa17 I concluded that he is measuring the supply temperature on the heat meter, i.e. right behind the common collector. The sensor there is 20cm from a common point. A temperature difference in the flow is practically impossible. Not to that extent.
  • #12 17771285
    Roksa17
    Level 8  
    Posts: 6
    I did the test, and ... I turned the radiators to the maximum, I have 7 of them in my apartment. It was going on for over an hour. They were hot, you couldn't even touch them. The indications on the sensonic meter were as follows: current flow 0.696 cubic meters per hour, current power 5.934 kW, supply temperature 72, return temperature 65. Then I turned the valves on the radiators to three, i.e. 20 degrees in the apartment and the parameters were as follows: 0.332, power 2.745, temperature 71 on the supply and 64 on the return. Then I started to turn the Herza valve under the counter, but I have no idea which way the flow increases and which it decreases. When the valve was twisting, I thought that the flow would be larger and I got the following parameters: the temperature dropped to 66 degrees, the power to 2.745 ... Advise me how to set this trash so that it would be economical and warm. I don't know if higher flow with less temperature loss is good or bad?
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around central heating temperature discrepancies in a block of flats, where one resident experiences significantly lower water temperatures (52°C input, 25°C return) compared to a neighbor (80°C input, 52°C return). Participants suggest that the issue may stem from low water flow, improper regulation of heating valves, or potential mixing of cold water with the heating system. Recommendations include checking the flow rates, ensuring proper valve adjustments, and consulting the building administrator for professional assistance. The importance of maintaining consistent supply temperatures and addressing installation issues is emphasized, as well as the need for accurate temperature readings from the heating meters.
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FAQ

TL;DR: A 30°C drop on a short supply run is almost impossible; "the flow temperature should be the same." Check sensors and rebalance. [Elektroda, piracik, post #17766450]

Quick Facts

Why does my supply show 52 C while my neighbors shows 80 C on the same riser?

At the common collector, supply temperatures should match across flats. A 30 C drop over a short section is almost impossible. Likely causes are miswired heatmeter probes or swapped sensor placement. Your feed pipe number may not match your apartment. Verify the meter cable connects to your pipe and confirm the labeled feed (e.g., 104) is yours. Take a photo higher up on the supply to compare. [Elektroda, piracik, post #17766450]

Does choking flow change supply temperature or only the return?

Choking flow primarily changes the return temperature, not the supply near the manifold. On a shared riser, the supply should be the same for neighboring flats. "No matter how the flow is choked, the flow temperature should be the same." If your supply changes, suspect measurement or identification errors. [Elektroda, piracik, post #17766450]

What do my Sensonic meter readings mean?

Your Sensonic shows flow (mb3/h), instantaneous power (kW), and supply/return temperatures. Example readings you posted: 0.696 mb3/h, 5.934 kW at 72/65 C, and later 0.332 mb3/h, 2.745 kW at 71/64 C. Those imply a small 9T of about 7 K at both settings. Small 9T indicates higher flow, while larger 9T indicates lower flow. Use TRVs to set room temperature; log readings after changes. [Elektroda, Roksa17, post #17771285]

Is 80 C supply ever normal in an apartment block?

80 C on the supply is excessive for typical weather. It can make radiators dangerously hot. Such temperatures only make sense during deep freezes, around 20 to 25 C outdoors. If you see 80 C in mild weather, regulation is off or readings are mistaken. Lower the setpoint through proper system control, not by starving flow in some flats. [Elektroda, Zbigniew Rusek, post #17764900]

Why did my supply rise to 82 C when my neighbor turned off their radiators?

Your recorded test showed 82 C with the neighbor off, then 52 C when they opened their heater. That behavior indicates your flats share a riser and compete for flow. When their branch closes, more hot water reaches your meter and radiators. Coordinate tests with neighbors and the administrator to confirm and balance. [Elektroda, Roksa17, post #17765154]

What explains a 25 C return when my neighbor has 52 C return?

A 25 C return suggests very low flow through your branch or unintended mixing with cold water. Low flow cools water rapidly in colder pipe runs, and radiators underheat. Another possibility is heavy silt buildup choking branches, reducing circulation. Check measurements and have the installation inspected for mixing points and blockages. [Elektroda, Zbigniew Rusek, post #17764900]

How do I check if my heatmeter sensors or pipes are mixed up?

Do this quick check:
  1. Trace the meter sensor cable and ensure it clamps to your supply pipe.
  2. Verify the labeled feed pipe (e.g., 9104) actually serves your apartment.
  3. Photograph or measure higher on the supply and repeat with the neighbors radiators closed.
Miswiring or mislabeling can mimic big temperature gaps. Correct identification before balancing. [Elektroda, piracik, post #17766450]

Who should adjust the redknob Herz/balancing valve under the meter?

That redknob valve sets your branch flow. Adjusting one or two apartments can upset the whole stack. "Its best to ask the building administrator to send someone who knows and will adjust." Overchoked radiators inside your flat can also starve rooms. Request professional system balancing to avoid neighbor disputes. [Elektroda, piotr_boncza, post #17766416]

Can sludge or silt be the reason some radiators stay cold?

Yes. Silted branches restrict flow so much that radiators fail at normal parameters. One reported case needed an 80 C supply to make starved radiators heat, and they began to boil. That is unsafe and signals a cleaning or repair issue, not a setpoint fix. Have the building check and flush the affected branches. [Elektroda, Zbigniew Rusek, post #17764900]

Do farthest radiators get cooler when flows arent balanced?

Yes. Without proper balancing, nearby radiators steal flow, and distant ones run cooler at their inlets. After correct throttling, the far radiator temperature rises and performance improves. Cycling boilers complicate readings, but the principle holds with constanttemperature district heat. Balance loops so each radiator receives its design flow. [Elektroda, BUCKS, post #17767170]

Is a 30 C supply drop between my meter and neighbor realistic?

No, not on a short section right after a common collector. Such a large drop suggests a measurement error, misidentified pipes, or swapped probes. Check the sensor cable routing and confirm your feed pipe number. Compare readings higher on the supply to rule out local anomalies. [Elektroda, piracik, post #17766450]

How should I set TRVs and the Herz valve for comfort and economy?

Use TRVs to maintain room setpoints, like 93 for about 20 C. Your logged values show 0.332 mb3/h delivered about 2.745 kW at 71/64 C, while 0.696 mb3/h delivered about 5.934 kW at 72/65 C. Favor small, stable flows and avoid large swings. If tweaking the Herz valve drops displayed supply sharply, revert and log again. [Elektroda, Roksa17, post #17771285]

When should I escalate to the building administrator?

Escalate if flats on one riser see different supply readings, if you suspect swapped sensors, or if underheating persists. Buildingwide balancing is required, and solo adjustments cause conflicts. The administrator should dispatch a technician to measure and set flows properly. This stabilizes comfort and usage across neighbors. [Elektroda, piotr_boncza, post #17766416]

Can a neighbor taking more water starve my apartment?

Yes. An overopened branch draws more flow than its radiators need, reducing flow to others. This leads to underheating elsewhere and hot radiators for the oversupplied flat. Shared systems need disciplined balancing, not adhoc valve tweaking by each occupant. Coordinate changes through management. [Elektroda, BUCKS, post #17766433]
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