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Winter Power Outage Solutions: Einhell BT-PG 2800 Generator for 2.2-2.6 kW Needs & AVR Importance

tmsx 45210 23
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 11333012
    tmsx
    Level 12  
    Hello,

    due to the coming winter, there is a need to purchase a power generator to secure heating (a modern 1-f. gas boiler), lighting and "basic" living conditions (fridge, gate automation, etc..) in a single-family house.

    It is a rural area with overhead lines exposed (mainly due to winds) to infrequent but long power outages. Breaks reach up to 3 days.

    I calculated that I am looking for a generator with a power of about 2.2-2.6 kW, and due to the use of it for several days a year, its price should not be higher than PLN 2,000.

    Doing an initial research on the network, apart from the "tourist" inverter generators (weak and expensive, small tank capacity) and crude Chinese ( chondy ), I drew attention to the Einhell model BT-PG 2800 . Almost perfect, 15l tank, you leave, start and forget for the whole day.
    Unfortunately, the specifications show that it does not have AVR voltage stabilization and here I have a few questions:

    - does this disqualify this generator from powering the boiler (I mean its electronics)?
    - I see that the module (actually a heat sink with a capacitor) can be purchased separately, will such a purchase make sense?

    Maybe Colleagues will propose their own proven products?

    P.S. I am fully aware of the requirements and legal conditions that a home electrical installation must meet, so I would like to ask you not to develop this thread.

    Dude, you don't even know how to spell "Honda"? And be polite to write proper names with a capital letter, as well as at the beginning of a sentence. [retro food]

    To the moderator:
    1) Of course I know how to spell Honda, but Asian manufacturers don't always know that, hence one of the examples of names they come up with.
    2) Please indicate which beginning of the sentence was not capitalized.
    Regards
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  • #3 11333276
    tmsx
    Level 12  
    Do not talk :) and I thought Germany, as it says on the big stickers on cheap aggregates from allegro ...

    As for your proposal, the difference is that the FM 3001 unit without AVR is 2x cheaper than its equivalent with the FM 3001 R stabilizer. The former is within the budget.

    The question is still valid, does it have to be AVR?
  • #4 11333306
    andrefff
    Level 36  
    Unfortunately, it should be from AVR if you feel sorry for the equipment, but your budget will be exceeded by only PLN 700, get over it and you have decent equipment.
  • #5 11333343
    kkknc
    Level 43  
    AVR can be given externally and this is not a problem. The problem is what this generator outputs, frequency, harmonics. The new TV RATHER (not for sure) will not hurt, but the fridge, the gate, the stove, yes. Search the forum for a topic that has been covered many times. Find something off-the-shelf.
  • #6 11333401
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    And the system in which the generator is configured does not matter anymore?
    Is the shock hazard no longer relevant?
  • #7 11333654
    tmsx
    Level 12  
    From what I'm reading, AVR guarantees stabilization of the output voltage at 1-2%, without AVR 8% *.
    Not long ago I came here with the problem of voltage fluctuations in my house, probably in the range of 208-242V, which corresponds to even 10% and apparently still meets quality standards, and household appliances withstand, but the problem is the blinking of light bulbs.

    If I conclude correctly, these few days a year the generator without AVR should not make great losses in household appliances?

    * http://www.genpower.pl/przenosne.html

    to kkas12:
    I am not sure if these questions are addressed to me, because I do not see their connection with my question at first glance, but I am of the opinion that life is the highest value and every threat, not only electric shock, but also exhaust gas poisoning, the impact of 96dB on hearing and many many others to keep in mind.
    As for the configuration of the generator, unfortunately, none of the products I watched had it specified.
  • #8 11333712
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Start with the information on how the unit works.
  • #9 11334436
    masonry
    Level 30  
    When it starts to penetrate the generator system, it will turn out that it can't buy anything.
  • #10 11334598
    mikstu2
    Level 27  
    I have an eco-pea boiler for heating my house. During longer power outages, (over 4 hours) I take a 2 kVA generator out of the basement and use it to power the boiler with a separate line. I can also power the most necessary loads, e.g. portable lamps, radio or TV (there is a power reserve).
    All this without being included in the basic installation!
  • #11 11334688
    grzesdc
    Level 16  
    masonry wrote:
    When it starts to penetrate the generator system, it will turn out that it can't buy anything.


    Because most of them work in the IT system
  • #12 11355580
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
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  • #13 11356035
    kkknc
    Level 43  
    Bronek22 wrote:

    I have heard many complaints from AVR users that the AVR unit is not reliable.
    Equipment burns happen.
    People added mains voltage controllers.


    Then let these complaining people buy a decent generator, not one they can afford. Because when buying equipment for PLN 1500-2000 with a sticker "professional, professional" or similar sounding miracles, it will not work out that a decent AVR for decent equipment has the same price as this whole generator. And the accuracy of voltage stabilization of these cheap generators with AVR should be multiplied by 3-5 in relation to what is in the manual. I will not mention that some of them do not have them at all, even though the sellers boast about it. The greatest tragedy begins when I have a cheap 3f generator, in which the AVR measures the voltage on one phase, it is loaded asymmetrically and the most on the phase from which the AVR measures the voltage, and it is not that difficult, because it is enough to turn on the kettle on this phase and a boiler. What happens on the other two is horror.
  • #14 11356267
    mikstu2
    Level 27  
    I'm just thinking...
    Is an AVR really needed to power the average household in the event of a blackout, even for 2 or 3 days?
    What are highly sensitive receivers? and how many do we have at home? Unless we have a lab.
    This time of no electricity. you have to survive somehow, in reasonably comfortable conditions (boiler power supply, lighting, TV, radio, fridge).
    I don't think AVR is needed for that...
    P.S
    Electric energy supplier should provide us with a voltage of 230V, +/-10%.
    Please calculate the deviations yourself.
  • #15 11356270
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
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  • #16 11460035
    kosmos99
    Level 38  
    grzesdc wrote:
    Because most of them work in the IT system


    I have a question:

    In the TN-S network system, if a four-way generator-grid switch was used, is it a mistake to connect such a generator (IT) to the home installation?
  • #17 11760234
    boe666
    Level 12  
    Please familiarize yourself with what IT is and how it differs from TNS or TNCS. Please do not think about TT because there are really few of them.

    Maybe I don't know myself and maybe someone who knows me will say otherwise, but the generators work in IT only because usually the generator is placed somewhere on a construction site, it starts up and the devices are connected - no one earths the generator! The earthed common point of the generator, e.g. with the protective conductor of the installation in the building and aligned to the periphery of the building, makes the generator work in TNS or TNCS (depending on what is in the building). Anyway, disconnecting a section of the internal network from the municipal network and powering it from the genset does not disconnect the protective connections, so the genset, in my opinion, MUST be grounded, so that the short-circuit loop impedance is sufficiently low.

    On the other hand, leveling the breakdown of the aggregate phase on its housing and proper protection against electric shock is not so simple, because the protection would have to be right behind the generator, or even in the generator itself. Generally, with correct connection and protection and earthing - there is no electric shock protection between the genset and the plug-in point, hence IT (insulated) which gives a phase relative to the local N. theoretically, so touching the phase of the genset does not cause an electric shock.

    Of course, in my opinion.
  • #18 11760427
    kosmos99
    Level 38  
    boe666 wrote:
    hence IT (isolated) which gives a phase relative to local N. theoretically so touching the phase of the generator does not cause an electric shock.


    Exactly, so using Fr 4 poles we separate N from PE and it looks like an isolated system? In the case of let's assume that the insulation is damaged and the phase from the generator appears on the housing, and thus also on the PE cable, there is no danger because PE is not the second pole. Shock is only possible when L and N touch the generator. I think right?
  • #19 11760883
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #20 11761236
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #21 11761513
    kosmos99
    Level 38  
    Bronek22 wrote:
    Because when there is a breakdown on the housing, the phase will be connected to PE.


    Well, yes, but will there be an electric shock if the second pole of the generator is not grounded?
  • #22 11763431
    bartek_p
    Level 31  
    Buddy tmsx, following this lead
    "If I conclude correctly, then these few days a year the generator without AVR should not make great losses in household appliances?"
    then if you connect the fridge to 400 V "but only for a moment" nothing will happen either?
    Any discussion of aggregates always goes in the same direction, and people buy what they can afford anyway. And then they were sorry that something went up in smoke
  • #23 11763808
    boe666
    Level 12  
    bartek_p wrote:
    Buddy tmsx, following this lead
    "If I conclude correctly, then these few days a year the generator without AVR should not make great losses in household appliances?"
    then if you connect the fridge to 400 V "but only for a moment" nothing will happen either?
    Any discussion of aggregates always goes in the same direction, and people buy what they can afford anyway. And then they were sorry that something went up in smoke
    .

    You're right, but my colleague's insinuations about what people buy, in my opinion, fall under section 3.1.9 of the forum rules - not private opinions about the behavior of others are the topic of this thread.

    As for the merits - yes, when buying a generator on the EU market (e.g. in Poland), you have the right to require that it meets the power supply assumptions from your own rating plate. If you have a multimeter and you know something about combustion engines, you can easily set the generator as it should be. If you have a 3-ph generator - it's a bit of a problem, so it's worth having a 1-phase generator.
    As for the shock - an unearthed 1-f generator from which L, N and the so-called PE connected at the RG input (isolated from the L, N and PE of the building) - does not change the operation of the protections in the RG - the electric shock protection will be maintained. However, it will be different when you have separate circuits and you cannot disconnect PE. Then the genset should be grounded and equalized to ensure low and reliable loop impedance.

    Theoretically, touching the phase of an unearthed (well insulated) generator should not cause an electric shock. But in practice I prefer not to check. And remember what the generator diagram looks like - because from what I remember it is such a TNCS system, i.e. a system with the separation of PEN into N and PE, but PE is insulated from the ground.
  • #24 14790732
    rafal131313
    Level 26  
    Protection against electric shock.
    http://zsel.edu.pl/dydaktyka/ochrona/ochrona.pdf

    boe666 wrote:
    Theoretically, touching the phase of an unearthed (well insulated) generator should not cause an electric shock. But in practice I prefer not to check. And remember what the generator diagram looks like - because from what I remember it is such a TNCS system, i.e. a system with the separation of PEN into N and PE, but PE is insulated from the ground.


    Then measure the phase voltage of the generator (well insulated) and PEN and see if you survive.

    It shouldn't cause shock, but you'd also need to be isolated.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the need for a power generator to support essential household functions during winter power outages in rural areas. The Einhell BT-PG 2800 generator is highlighted as a potential option, but concerns are raised regarding its lack of Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR). Participants debate the necessity of AVR for protecting sensitive appliances, with some arguing that it is essential to prevent damage, while others believe that for occasional use, a generator without AVR may suffice. The conversation also touches on the reliability of AVR systems and the implications of connecting generators to different electrical network types, such as TN-S and IT systems. Users share personal experiences with generators and emphasize the importance of understanding voltage stability and load management.
Summary generated by the language model.
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