Choosing a 2000W 4-Stroke Generator for Home: PSMtools PS-AP2600 vs Graphite 58G903 with AVR

Hello

I am in the process of choosing a generator for my home. I mean emergency situations, e.g. in winter, when there is no electricity for several hours to support the stove and its controller, pumps, TV, radio, computer lighting at home, kettle.
I know that TV and computer devices are very sensitive and it is necessary for the generator to have voltage stabilization. The amount is max PLN 1200, the power is approx. 2000W and it must be a 4-stroke.
I know it's too small an amount for a good generator, but maybe one of these two.
I don't want a UPS because there the battery will run out and I have no power supply, but I will fill the generator with gasoline and it works without restrictions.

I considered two aggregates:

Power generator PSMtools PS-AP2600 2600 W - the description states that it can work with sensitive TV devices and has very good reviews on the portal.

GRAPHITE POWER GENERATOR 58G903 2000W AVR - supposedly has voltage stabilization, but I found the instructions in the manual not to connect it to devices such as TV, computer.

When looking for a generator, look primarily for devices offering an output with the so-called pure sine. This is especially necessary if you have engines to power (e.g. central heating pumps). So before you make a decision, read a bit about the problems with this type of aggregates, for example here:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic654679.html#3385642
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3406045.html#16909179
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3506824.html#17485189
So let go of cheap Chinese aggregates, because they can make a lot of mess. And the one with a sine ... Well, as in life - the better the sine, the greater the expense

Grzes133 wrote:

The maximum amount is PLN 1,200

Give it up and forget it.
At this price, they will write everything that is not there.

https://allegro.pl/oferta/agregat-pradotworczy-2600w-230v-12v-6-5km-avr-9910612751

Great as described.
I guess I'm an idiot, because I paid 4.5k for a Honda without AVR (now about 6k).
Without the AVR, it holds the tension perfectly.

Regards.

The one indicated by alledrogo is an example of cheap aggregates that are completely unsuitable for working with CO. And it must also be honestly emphasized that the seller does not promise such miracles

Grzes133 wrote:

...e.g. in winter, for several hours, there is no electricity to support the stove and its controller, pumps, tv, radio, computer, lighting in the house, kettle.

And if the problem really only concerns several hours and you are able to give up the kettle during this period (because it is terribly energy-intensive!) There are other, much simpler solutions to the problem of maintaining the power supply.

Mobali wrote:

The one indicated by alledrogo is an example of cheap aggregates that are completely unsuitable for working with CO. And it must also be honestly emphasized that the seller does not promise such miracles

Grzes133 wrote:

...e.g. in winter, for several hours, there is no electricity to support the stove and its controller, pumps, tv, radio, computer, lighting at home, kettle.

And if the problem really only concerns several hours and you are able to give up the kettle during this period (because it is terribly energy-intensive!) There are other, much simpler solutions to the problem of maintaining the power supply.

Both from alledrogo are not suitable for the oven?

in one of them the seller writes this: "Allows you to work with sensitive receivers, such as computers, televisions or telephones"

And what else can I use to support a 23 kW pellet stove, it has 3 pumps, a fan and a pellet feeder ... It would be good if it also supported 1 lamp.
Instead of a kettle, I have a gas stove for cylinders, so I can give up the kettle

Grzes133 wrote:

pellet feeder

Inrush currents approx. 5x compared to normal operation.

What power of the feeder motor?

Forget the kettle!!!

Feeder motor power 40W.

Grzes133 wrote:

Feeder motor power 40W

So none.

Grzes133 wrote:

And what else can I use to support a 23 kW pellet stove, it has 3 pumps, a fan and a pellet feeder ... It would be good if it also supported 1 lamp.

The solutions exist, they are simple, and most importantly - dedicated to CO systems. Here are examples:
1. Rectifier/UPS converter with a full sine of 12V plus a battery of appropriate capacity (I will send an example on priv, because we do not paste links to alledrogo here)
2. A similar set, but supplemented with a solar panel responsible for "free" charging and maintaining the battery. In my opinion, this is the most reasonable and very reliable solution.
Importantly, by choosing one of these solutions, you will spend much less, and the system will be safer for the receivers connected to it. Similar dilemmas are also in this thread - maybe you can use something: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3848219.html Well, and use the "search", because the topic of emergency power supply of CO systems often appears in Elektroda.

Mobali wrote:

supplemented with a solar panel responsible for "free" top-up

Will it amortize before it crashes?
I noticed the quotation marks.

When selecting a generator, it is necessary to balance all receivers that we have to supply, assume a sequence of switching on and take into account the starting currents. In the case of devices with motor drives, starting currents should be assumed at the level of x7 (for direct starts), which will translate into an approximately 2-fold increase in active power and a 7-fold increase in apparent power of the starting motor (these discrepancies result from the fact that the motor the transformer is compact and has a very low cos? . The level of active power to be taken over by the generator affects the transient frequency drop, while the apparent power affects the transient voltage drop. In addition, the sequence of switching on should be taken into account, because each genset has a specific capacity to take over the load in a step - as a rule, it can be assumed at the level of ~ 60% of the genset's rated power.
As for the power supply of electronic devices, they usually have impulse power supplies operating in a wide range of input voltages and are not very sensitive to frequency deviations of the supply voltage because there is a rectifier at the input.
Approximately 20% of the generator power reserve should be added to the power balance prepared in this way.

anchilos - "I must be an idiot, because I paid 4.5k for a Honda without AVR (now about 6k)."

I do not know what Honda you bought, but on a well-known website, Honda prices without AVR start at PLN 2,700. and from AVR are from PLN 3750.

Grzes133 wrote:

I know that TV and computer devices are very sensitive and it is necessary for the generator to have voltage stabilization. The maximum amount is PLN 1,200

With twice the fund, you can buy a Chinese with an inverter. He will have both good stability and work culture. The AVR must have a constant engine speed regardless of the power input. The inverter with a small load "pops" at 1000 rpm.

Both the TV and the PC are very insensitive to the supply voltage because they are powered by impulse converters. They already run at 90-100V and it can be "rectangle". They just don't handle the stress. But here AVR is effective enough.

Will this unit be better than the previous two:

Barracuda AGP28001FRR 2800W

Mobali wrote:

The one indicated by alledrogo is an example of cheap aggregates that are completely unsuitable for working with CO. And it must also be honestly emphasized that the seller does not promise such miracles
And if the problem really only concerns several hours and you are able to give up the kettle during this period (because it is terribly energy-intensive!) There are other, much simpler solutions to the problem of maintaining the power supply.

Both are perfect, I don't know where you came from.
The kettle may outgrow them, but it will also manage itself in the short term.

Grzes133 wrote:

Will this unit be better than the previous two:
Barracuda AGP28001FRR 2800W

From the cheap ones, look at the Kraft Dele with a copper winding.

nak71 wrote:

anchilos - "I must be an idiot, because I paid 4.5k for a Honda without AVR (now about 6k)."

I do not know what Honda you bought, but on a well-known website, Honda prices without AVR start at PLN 2,700. and from AVR are from PLN 3750.

They have as much in common with Honda as I have with the moon.

anchilos wrote:

Will it amortize before it crashes?

And how long do you think it takes for a PV panel to "fall down"?

hevet2 wrote:

Both are the best...

Well, I wish you a lot of luck when working with boiler controllers and central heating pumps.

hevet2 wrote:

...look at Kraft Dele with copper windings.

Kraf Dele - synonymous with quality and reliability?

hevet2 wrote:

I don't know where you came from.

hevet2 wrote:

They have as much in common with Honda as I have with the moon.

I just agree here.

nak71 wrote:

I do not know what Honda you bought, but on a well-known website, Honda prices without AVR start at PLN 2,700. and from AVR are from PLN 3750.

EA6000

Added after 6 [minutes]:

Mobali wrote:

anchilos wrote:

Will it amortize before it crashes?

And how long do you think it takes for a PV panel to "fall down"?

It's quick to answer a question with a question.

Or maybe this solution will be good?

1000W uninterruptible power supply with pure sine connected to the battery. The stove is connected to the power supply.

In addition, in the event of a longer power outage, this Barracuda unit is connected to charge the battery to ensure continuity of operation of the power supply.

Mobali wrote:

hevet2 wrote:

Both are the best...

Well, I wish you a lot of luck when working with boiler controllers and central heating pumps.

hevet2 wrote:

...look at kraft dele with copper winding.

Kraf Dele - synonymous with quality and reliability?

hevet2 wrote:

I don't know where you came from.

hevet2 wrote:

They have as much in common with Honda as I have with the moon.

I just agree here.

I've been using it for years with boiler, TV and computer controllers and there is no problem (supposedly there are problems with gas stoves, but it's for other reasons).
As for the Kraf Dele brand, it is a mean product (like all others, but it had copper), anyway, what you can buy for PLN 1,200 (but you can use it and it produces electricity) and you don't need any luck because thousands of people use it. For PLN 1,000, he will not buy a decent inverter with a real sine, let's not be magic. The controller, blower and central heating pump run on a small two-stroke unit without AVR (after small maneuvers).

hevet2 wrote:

I have been using it for years with boiler, tv and computer controllers and there is no problem (

It is different with others, especially with pumps and controllers. It is obvious that TV or computers will not have any problems - this is a direct result of the design of their power supplies. There's no point in repeating myself, so I'll quote my colleague:

William Bonawentura wrote:

Both the TV and the PC are very insensitive to the supply voltage because they are powered by impulse converters. They already run at 90-100V and it can be "rectangle". They just don't handle the stress. But here AVR is effective enough.

hevet2 wrote:

As for the Kraf Dele brand, it's a mean product...

Exactly - so why recommend such crap to someone?

hevet2 wrote:

For PLN 1,000, he will not buy a decent inverter with a real sine, let's not be magic.

That's what I tried to explain above. There are no miracles and in this price range there is only poor quality and ordinary AVR. And this equipment is simply not designed to support CO systems, which I tried to point out to the author of the topic.

Hello, I know it's a slightly different price range, but what do you say about the Fogo F3001R?
Any chance this dynamo produces something like a sine wave?

Technical data:

Voltage stabilization: +2/- %
Frequency: 50Hz
Voltage: 1 phase 230V
Maximum power: 2.7 kVA
Rated power: 2.5kVA
Rated Current: 10.9A
Weight: 38 kg
Length: 580mm
Width: 405 m
Height: 415mm
Generator: Synchronous
Model: KR80D
Degree of protection: 23 IP
ENGINE - Manufacturer: TMH
Engine Model: T210
Fuel Type: Gasoline
Tank capacity: 3.6L
Consumption at power: 75% 1.4 l/h
Sound power: 96 Lwa / dB(A)
Sound pressure: 75.8+/-0.6 LpAm / db(A)

Other than a slightly different quality compared to the Kraft Dele, don't expect miracles on the power side. This Fogo F3001R chiller has AVR+ so it's not a pure sine wave. Those devices that have switching power supplies, so they will work without any problems (TV, computer, monitor, etc.). Brush motors are not bothered by this, but it will be much worse with induction motors. Also UPSs connected to such a network can go crazy, because they usually control the voltage at the input much more precisely. Despite the higher price, do not expect that central heating devices (mainly pump motors!) will work properly.

From this company, the FOGO F2001is is a single-phase power generator equipped with an inverter generator that offers much more accurate voltage and frequency stabilization. There will be no ideal, but it is a much better quality shelf and "better current." Here is a description of this device:
Fogo f-200..is-.pdf (126.13 kB)You must be logged in to download this attachment.

Once again, I emphasize that a better, cheaper and safer alternative for several hours of power supply is a UPS with a battery. It is also a more reliable system, the backup time of which depends directly on the battery capacity and the power consumed. The absolute minimum is about 70 Ah, but 120 Ah units should already work very efficiently. A solar panel can be used to recharge and maintain the system in standby. A set consisting of a battery and a suitable converter can be assembled from PLN 500 to PLN 1000 (the costs are mainly determined by the battery capacity). However, with full safety for the powered devices, it will still be from a quarter to only half of the money that needs to be spent on a cheap and not fully suitable generator. Adding to this the operating costs (mainly fuel) and the inevitable inconveniences of owning a generator, the choice seems obvious.

Mobali wrote:

. A solar panel can be used to recharge and maintain the system in standby. A set consisting of a battery and a suitable converter can be assembled from PLN 500 to PLN 1000 (the costs are mainly determined by the battery capacity).

I'm very interested.
Please some example:
Panel and inverter that will support in winter

Mobali wrote:

about 70 Ah, however 120 Ah units

hevet2 wrote:

For PLN 1,000, he will not buy a decent inverter with a real sine, let's not be magic

I bought SinusPRO 500 from VoltPolska link
PLN 375 on Allegro.
It will work with an AGM 100Ah car battery, because I have a loose one (of course there are no more 100Ah ones), load - two pumps working in the first gear (2x 30W), cyclically. A little should come.
V

vorlog wrote:

from VoltPolska

Isn't it "made in Cathay"?

Regards.

And what isn't...
V

vorlog wrote:

And what isn't...

Little Chinese "made" abroad. :D

fashion. let it go.

anchilos wrote:

nak71 wrote:

I do not know what Honda you bought, but on a well-known website, Honda prices without AVR start at PLN 2,700. and from AVR are from PLN 3750.

EA6000 Added after 6 [minutes]:

Mobali wrote:

anchilos wrote:

Will it amortize before it crashes?

And how long do you think it takes for a PV panel to "fall down"?

Quick to answer a question with a question

This unit has only the HONDA engine, it was manufactured (or rather assembled) in Poland for ARIES POWER (HONDA distributor), not by HONDA POWER EQUIPMENT. Not everything with a HONDA engine was built by HONDE.

vorlog wrote:

hevet2 wrote:

For PLN 1,000, he will not buy a decent inverter with a real sine, let's not be magic

I bought SinusPRO 500 from VoltPolska link
PLN 375 on Allegro.
It will work with an AGM 100Ah car battery, because I have a loose one (of course there are no more 100Ah ones), load - two pumps working in the first gear (2x 30W), cyclically. A little should come.
V

Show me the graph from the oscilloscope of the "produced" sine that it will walk on the "square" I have not questioned anywhere (as you already refer to me).

hevet2 wrote:

Show me the graph from the oscilloscope of the "produced" sine that it will walk on the "square" I have not questioned anywhere (as you already refer to me).

Somehow I don't want...
Oh, anyway... What the hell

V