Converting Single-Phase to Three-Phase: Electrician vs Company and Ownership Act

Hello,
I would like to change my electrical installation from one to three-phase.
I visited a service company, an electric wholesaler and the installation of an electrical installation, in which they called for the material about PLN 800 plus the second PLN 800 and said it could reach PLN 2,000 for everything, I say ok, the company, etc., that's all you have to give.
but I met a friend who told me that his friend made such a change for 400 zlotys (a job), a professional electrician without a company.
and my question is can it be done by an ordinary electrician or does it have to be a company?

and the second:

I went to the Power Engineering department
and you said that I must have:
-Act of ownership
-map what map where can I get it from the commune? how much does this map cost?
do they give me such a map if I am not the owner but my father is the owner?
-filled application that he gave me, and that's it?
there are still some costs in the energy department because the nice gentleman did not say anything about the costs and I read that you have to pay them: /

Map for design purposes in the geodetic office authorized by the district office.
In my regions it costs about PLN 500.

ufogrzesiak wrote:

do they give me such a map if I am not the owner but my father is the owner?

Notarized authorization by father. Next cost.
You keep the original with you. You provide a photocopy of the documents, or the original for inspection only.

ufogrzesiak wrote:

costs in the energy department because the nice gentleman did not say anything about the costs and I read that you have to pay them: /

There may be costs of rebuilding the connection and a fee for increasing the connection capacity.
In the terms and conditions and the contract you will be nice to everything written. You pay a flat rate for the costs of reconstruction of the connection. And it's a small amount. 90% of the costs in your case are borne by the utility company.

If you convert a single-phase installation to a three-phase installation, it should be reported to the County Office.
Especially if you had TN-C before and now you have TN-S

Regarding the electrical installation and WLZ, the ZE cannot impose anything on you except what you have in the terms and in the contract.

Instead of an electrician, I advise you to take a company that takes little, in my opinion.
Unless you find a better one, not necessarily cheaper.
It's best to ask for references.

I would forget to add that with such an investment, some small project (Power Scheme) would be useful. Next cost.

ufogrzesiak wrote:

for PLN 400 (a job) a professional electrician without a company

Who will come to the competition and has no clue about the current standards for electrical installations in residential construction. He does not know the content of the current standards and for him the overvoltage limiter, which should exist in new installations, is an unnecessary exposing to costs. I will not mention the differentials.

Before you start with the investment, I advise you to calculate for yourself how much the reconstruction of the installation will really cost.

Since you do not intend to play the electrician yourself, I recommend you free knowledge
http://bezel.com.pl/index.php/instalacje-elektryczne.html
so that sometimes some "specialists" would not talk stupid.
Be careful on this site sometimes there are errors beyond the grasp of the layman.
Therefore, I propose to compare it with other relatively reliable sources of information.

There will still be project costs for a 3-phase connection. The connection fee will not be that small either, because for each kW it is well over PLN 100 (I do not know how they count in your area, you would have to ask). But 2,000 is not enough for this investment.

karolq wrote:

There will still be project costs for a 3-phase connection.

Sorry, but this project should be included in the cost of rebuilding the connection. And that is on the ZE side.

He will have to pay for the design of the electrical installation from the connection.

Hello
I already have it behind me in an apartment in a block of flats (I do not know if you have a house or a flat). It is not that terrible. Documents as you write. In the case of a block, instead of a map, the consent of the cooperative. it was exactly a month) You get a decision and you do. It is important that the contractor has the qualifications, after the completion of the work, a report with the contractor's stamp is required. The meter and installation of the meter is made by ZE from the meter at your own expense. For me, it was written in the decision. As for the costs in ZE, it depends on what target power you apply for 1KW costs about PLN 150. The costs of installing an installation in a house / apartment are a separate matter. I replace everything for new ones, it will cost me a bit, but if you need 3 phases to power 1 receiver, the cost will not be great.

ADAM445 wrote:

but if you need 3 phases to power 1 receiver, the cost will not be great.

Yes, sure. One phase is overloaded and the pre-meter protection crashes and the customer does not know what for.
In the case of a three-phase supply, it must be ensured that all three phases are relatively evenly loaded.

that is, from the beginning, I have to give around PLN 500 for the map
I need 2,000 for material and work
if I can't, my father will go arrange everything.
power scheme some cost

and how to determine the connected load?
say up to 0.5 kW
and I want a welder, a compressor and a table saw (krajzege)

and for kW higher than in the current contract, do I have to pay immediately with the application or with the first electricity bill?

I will add
single-family house in the countryside
Energa Power Plant

Added after 7 [minutes]:

ADAM445 wrote:

o the meter and the meter assembly is performed by ZE from the meter at your own expense.

adam, that is, from the pole to the box on the building is made by the energy company and I at my own expense from the new box to the old meter?

this was the case with me in the ZE block
3 phases to the meter and replaced the meter, I still do everything at my own expense. You must pay the fees before replacing the meter, if you do not pay, they will start doing nothing. You have to calculate the power yourself as much as you need.

INTOUCH wrote:

karolq wrote:

There will still be project costs for a 3-phase connection.

Sorry, but this project should be included in the cost of rebuilding the connection. And that is on the ZE side.

He will have to pay for the design of the electrical installation from the connection.

My colleague's consent to this, but first he must pay the money and then the ZE will return him in the settlement. The design of the meter installation is, of course, at the expense of the recipient.


@ufogrzesiak

For a single-family house in the countryside, the best solution is at least 13-14 kW (25A protection) of power. It is known that you will have to pay the difference, but in the future you may need more power, although now you do not need that much.

karolq wrote:

INTOUCH wrote:

karolq wrote:

There will still be project costs for a 3-phase connection.

Sorry, but this project should be included in the cost of rebuilding the connection. And that is on the ZE side.

He will have to pay for the design of the electrical installation from the connection.

My colleague's consent to this, but first he must pay the money and then the ZE will return him in the settlement. The design of the meter installation is, of course, at the expense of the recipient.

that is, what do I have to pay for the project first, e.g. 1 thousand. and then they will refund me at the time of paying the bills for the consumed kW?

INTOUCH wrote:

If you convert a single-phase installation to a three-phase installation, it should be reported to the County Office.
Especially if you had TN-C before and now you have TN-S.

Flooo. And how was TT to the Voivode? : ganja:

My friend ufogrzesiak , after ZE issues new connection conditions, you go to sign a connection agreement and pay a fee for additional power. The change of the connection (with the connection design or without the design) is to be implemented by the ZE, including permits to enter the area if they are needed, etc. Unless you want to do it for them, they will be grateful (or not).

At least to the President of the Republic of Poland
Voivode too short for such notifications.

Added after 24 [minutes]:

Everyone is worthy to meet these people.
If you want reliable information, go to the ZE appropriate for your place of residence.
To the technical department. There they will explain everything to you, including the costs.
On the forum you will get a lot of contradictory information and not always truthful.
First of all, you will have to pay to ZE for the power increase, about PLN 150 for each kilowatt more than what you have now.
ZE will prepare the design (if necessary) and adjust the connection and report it to the starosty (if necessary).
At your own expense, you have to get an electrician who will adapt your part of the installation, i.e. a new WLZ, a new pre-meter protection and a new meter box (then possibly the rest of the installation and new power circuits to the devices you wrote about).
It is better to take a company or an electrician who has already done such things because he will know how to arrange everything in the ZE (not all electricians know this).
Search for electrics only when you get the connection conditions from the power supply, it will say what the electrician has to do.

Or go to the website of your energy supplier, and in the tabs you have (connections to the network) read and it will clarify the topic for you.

mar_cik wrote:

Flooo. And how was TT to the Voivode? : ganja:

Reconstruction of the installation is reported to the County Office.
If the power supply system of the network changes, it is subject to reconstruction.
And my colleague definitely changes a single-phase installation into a three-phase one and additionally increases the connection power.

Art. 3 of the construction law
Whenever the Act mentions:
(...)
7a) reconstruction - it shall mean the performance of construction works as a result of which the operational or technical parameters of the existing building object change, with the exception of characteristic parameters such as: cubature, building area, height, length, width or number of storeys; in the case of roads, changes in characteristic parameters are allowed in the range that does not require changes to the boundaries of the road lane;

In view of the above, when the connection capacity is increased and the single-phase installation is changed to three-phase, the conversion takes place. When the network system is changed, it is also rebuilt.

INTOUCH wrote:

Reconstruction of the installation is reported to the County Office.

It's just that it is done by ZE, not by the investor.

karolq wrote:

My colleague's consent to this, but first he must pay the money and then the ZE will return him in the settlement. The design of the meter installation is, of course, at the expense of the recipient.

Different plants have different approaches to the matter.
I will not argue with you about this.

can someone explain it to me because I don't understand it too much: /

We have the following types of connection groups:

group I - entities connected directly to the transmission network,
group II - entities connected directly to the distribution network, with a rated voltage of 110 kV, and entities connected to the distribution network, which require electricity supplies with parameters other than standard, or entities with generating units cooperating with the network,
group III - entities connected directly to the distribution network, with a rated voltage higher than 1kV, but lower than 110kV,
group IV - entities connected directly to the distribution network, with a rated voltage of no more than 1kV and a connection power greater than 40kW or the rated current of the meter protection in the current path greater than 63A,
group V - entities connected directly to the distribution network, with a rated voltage of no more than 1 kV and a connection power of no more than 40kW and a rated current of counter protection no more than 63A,
group VI - entities connected to the network through a temporary connection, which will be replaced by a target connection in accordance with the agreement, or entities connected to the network for a specified period, but not longer than 1 year.


which group will I belong to?
since he wants to have the connection power
13-14 kW (25A protection)

You belong to the connection group 5. If it were to power the construction site, it would be group 6.
Protection of 25A in front of the meter (which is related to the order of 13-14kW) is the minimum - I call it the minimum subsistence level.
If the expenditure of two or three hundred zlotys is not a big problem, I would advise you to order a power corresponding to the 32A protection.

mar_cik

why do you think so to have power with 32A pre-meter protection?

I don't think I need that much power

We don't understand each other. It's not about the power but the value of the collateral. The power only results from the naive (and I would not be afraid to say impudent) calculation from the value of the collateral of the basis for determining the fee.
The 25A pre-meter protection is the minimum resulting from the limited selectivity (overload) in relation to the 16A protection that we use, for example, for sockets.

mar_cik wrote:

We don't understand each other. It's not about the power but the value of the collateral. The power only results from the naive (and I would not be afraid to say impudent) calculation from the value of the collateral of the basis for determining the fee.
The 25A pre-meter protection is the minimum resulting from the limited selectivity (overload) in relation to the 16A protection that we use, for example, for sockets.

that is, the power as I wrote, only the 32A protection?

Not buddy.
You have to pay for the rest of the kilowatts.
If you do not pay today, you will pay more later, because the fee will not decrease for sure.
In addition, I sensitized my colleague not to listen to fairy tales about savings in the Lodz section
These apparent savings from today have to be returned in the future, along with substantial interest.

However, there is room for maneuver here when we replace the copper one with the aluminum one.
However, replacing the material with the correct cross-section will not result in future costs.

kkas12 wrote:

Not buddy.
You have to pay for the rest of the kilowatts.
If you do not pay today, you will pay more later, because the fee will not decrease for sure.
In addition, I sensitized my colleague not to listen to fairy tales about savings in the Lodz section
These apparent savings from today have to be returned in the future, along with substantial interest.

However, there is room for maneuver here when we replace the copper one with the aluminum one.
However, replacing the material with the correct cross-section will not result in future costs.

I don't understand:/

I currently have a signed contract for 5kW and 25A protection, I will want to raise it to 13-14 kW
(I know that for these 8-9 kW I will have to pay PLN 100 for each)

unfortunately, I was paying PLN 150 for each KW

to buddy kkas12 what's going on with this change of material, I have just exchanged from aluminum to copper and installed fuses 32A

If there are 32A security, you will have a power of 21kW.

If you decide to use 25A protection and use a too small cross-section of the LLZ, you will not be able to increase the power in the future, because the LLZ arranged today will not allow it.
I propose to arrange YAKY 4x35.

And these 25A, as a colleague wrote today, is a subsistence minimum.
Tomorrow, be sure it will be the subsistence level.

kkas12 wrote:

If there are 32A security, you will have a power of 21kW.

If you decide to use 25A protection and use a too small cross-section of the LLZ, you will not be able to increase the power in the future, because the LLZ arranged today will not allow it.
I propose to arrange YAKY 4x35.

And these 25A, as a colleague wrote today, is a subsistence minimum.
Tomorrow, be sure this will be the subsistence level.

I will have to bring about 1700 zlotys to the power industry and the rest

Don't blame me for that.
And don't let anyone tell you that it's ok.
Because it's not okay at all, because access to energy is treated as a luxury.

You don't have to take it right away.
However, everything must be done in such a way that at any time (when the need arises) it is possible to increase the value of pre-meter security without incurring repeated and yet unnecessary costs.

Quote:

Don't blame me for that.

God forbid I have no blame for you.

kkas12 wrote:

[
And don't let anyone tell you that it's ok.
Because it's not okay at all, because access to energy is treated as a luxury.

You don't have to take it right away.
However, everything must be done in such a way that at any time (when the need arises) it is possible to increase the value of pre-meter security without incurring repeated and yet unnecessary costs.

well, and when do I have to take the money to them? without payment they will not enter me to do anything ....


for me, having 380 is a luxury a welding machine is to work, a compressor and the country will not need too small a yard for any activity, etc.

These 25As are a must to start with anyway.
So start there.
The rest you can "buy" at any time.
It could be in a month, two, a year or later