Dim Light in New Installation: Voltage Drop to 225V with Electric Kettle, 100W Bulb, 500/16 Fuse

Hello,

I have a problem. The apartment has undergone a major renovation, but I have an objection to the electrician.
There is 230-232 V in the apartment, 500/16 fuse (new)
Depending on the room, sockets are located on different circuits, lighting also on other circuits.

The problem is that when you turn on, for example, the aggregator from the refrigerator, and even more so, the electric kettle, the light bulb dies slightly (so far the traditional 100W). There is also a slight voltage drop to around 225V.

Should this be the case in a new installation? Is there any way to confirm that the wrong cables have been inserted (don't know, maybe bad sections?) Or the reason could be something else?

The dimming of lights when switching on loads with high power consumption is most often caused by a poor connection at some point in the installation. I would look for fuses in the area or even in front of them.

Hello. First, check the voltage at the entrance to the apartment. If there is a voltage drop during activation, it means that the outdoor installation may be damaged. And the additional question of whether the electrician performed the measurements of the installation after the work was completed. Regards Janek.

And what is WLZ (length and cross-section)?

sapsapl wrote:

however, I have an objection to the electrician.

Even the best electrician and the best-made electrical installation cannot eliminate poor-quality electricity coming from the power plant or faulty electricity receivers.
The defect in the form of a poor contact in the electrical system is probably located outside the apartment in the meter board.
The only solution is to ask the electrician, who did the renovation of the installation in the apartment, to find out the cause. Because the problem will not be solved via the Internet.

The sections are supposed to be good (which I do not know, but I asked another electrician how they were served, what they were bought) - I do not know myself :-)

Currently, a differential for 10A is inserted, the fuse on the cage is 16A (new). Apparently, this difference may be too weak, but does that explain the behavior?

@ korrus666: As for the connections, they probably can be on the fuses because the lights are put on these temporary holders, so I guess it's out - another electrician tightened the connections on the fuses yesterday.

@sim_: of course not; - / Full professed

@krzysztofh: Unfortunately, I don't know

@ .Jack: I'm sure you are right, but I try to find potential causes so that I don't stand like a pillar of salt when I require something from an electrician.

First of all, I still do not know if such a decrease can occur in a well-made installation?

sapsapl wrote:

is such a drop allowed to occur in a well-made installation?

He has the right to perform.
Electrical installation is an extension of the power grid from the transformer. If this is loaded to the maximum, each time the next receiver is turned on, the voltage drops. But this is already the responsibility of the Power Plant.
Regarding the installation, the electrician will detect whether the fault is on the side of the power supply or the electrical installation, because it may be hot, loose or tight contact on the N or L cable. And therefore it is important to visit a specialist to see who to complain to and from whom to demand quality improvement electricity without flickering light.
Interference may also be caused by the refrigerator unit itself with a damaged anti-interference filter.

krzysztofh wrote:

Quote:

And what is the WLZ (length and cross-section)?

I would add - ... and in what condition is it? What is the power allocation for the apartment? The post shows that this is a secondary market apartment in a multi-family house - right?
I know from practice that, as a rule, the power allocation for an apartment was 4 kW. After years of operation and loading with receivers of significant power by previous tenants, this installation is in a deplorable condition. And here I would be looking for the cause of your troubles. After consulting the electrician who performed the installation for you - report the problem to the building administration.

@ robin161: the installation from the staircase (apartment in the block) is new. even the cable connecting the fuses and the meter is new.

@ .Jack: The electrician will say that it is not his fault (I will probably look for another specialist to verify). Can I require ENEA (operator) to remove the defect? Or ask them for measurements? (would it be cheaper to hire a separate electrician from the free market?)

@ Bronek22: the fridge is new, gorenje (if it matters), the problem arises when turning on the electric kettle, vacuum cleaner (different socket)


"My" electrician called, he says that the fault may be on the 10A differential side? says inserting a larger one will help. Is it true or crap?

sapsapl wrote:

"My" electrician called, he says that the fault may be on the 10A differential side? says inserting a larger one will help. Is it true or crap?

It seems to me that the problem is rather with small cross-sections of the wires ... Or possibly a poor contact at some connection ...

And as for the "differential". Is it an RCBO or an ordinary RCD?
If the RCD is 16A for the upstream fuse, the RCD should be greater than or equal to 16A ... rather certainly not less.

sapsapl wrote:

Can I require ENEA (operator) to remove the defect? Or ask them for measurements?

"My" electrician called, he says that the fault may be on the 10A differential side? says inserting a larger one will help. Is it true or crap?

We do not know what your receivers and power are, but the 10A differential is a bit small, you can give a bigger one, e.g. 16A / 30mA or 20A / 30mA :)

I think that ENEA will make you verify by measurements and a visit by an electrician with permissions or the recipient's side everything is as it should be, If you prove to them that everything is ok in the house (apartment), then you can demand something from them, the only question is what they said.

Colleague, we on the forum will not show you 100% of what is the cause of the problem, we can only give you the direction in which you need to follow, but someone has to do it anyway and it is best if it was an electrician.

We will exchange the differential for sure. The electrician admitted himself that he mistakenly took one and assembled it. The problem was that after omitting the differential in the circuit, the problem was still there.

I know that there is no need to visit a specialist, but tips like yours are valuable

sapsapl wrote:

We will replace the differential for sure. The electrician admitted himself that he mistakenly took one and assembled it.

Exactly. And he probably forgot his glasses to see what he wrote on it.
Measurement of a short-circuit loop at a socket and at the switchgear input (comparative) will explain everything in a moment.

sapsapl wrote:

@sim_: of course not; - / Full professed

It is worth finding out the cause of the problem by someone with the appropriate measures.

How many circuits (fuses / switches) are there in the apartment and what are they responsible for? Because if the lighting and socket circuits are mixed up, then such situations with dimming of the lighting occur, especially when powerful receivers are connected to the socket far from the switchgear. But to do so nowadays is against the law.

sapsapl wrote:

claims that the fault may be on the 10A differential side?

Hmm. The smallest RCD current rating I had in my hand was 25A. We will ask for a photo of what is installed in the apartment.

@TWK: The switchgear has: 9 fuses B16 (605510) Legrand + one differential B16 08402 Legrand. The lighting is definitely on a different fuse than the sockets. Kitchen (as I remember correctly) for 2 + 1 (lighting), the room also divided into zones (for computers) and the rest, etc. So if they are not mixed up (only light on the safe - in several rooms) then it should not be done?

@ 15kVmaciej: yes, I know, I'll try to arrange one, maybe some list what to ask for?

@elpapiotr: I will try to take care of these measurements this week. Any other measurements advisable?

sapsapl wrote:

one differential B16 08402 Legrand.

There is no such difference, probably something more is written. Please provide photos.

sapsapl wrote:

9 fuses B16 (605510) Legrand

There should probably be B10 for lighting ...

sapsapl wrote:

So if they are not mixed up (only the light is safe - in several rooms), then it shouldn't be done like that?

It should not - it means that a possible fault is upstream of the circuit separation (upstream of the switchgear). But again - the measurements will explain where the problem lies.

15kVmaciej wrote:

For my part, I will propose the measurement of the L-PE loop resistance in the table

L-PE will not do much, rather LN ...

I would measure this impedance (or resistance, depending on the meter) successively at the following points:
- a fading lamp,
- sockets after the load of which this lamp dims,
- in places where these circuits are connected (boxes)
- in the switchgear, both at the output of the circuits and at the input
- at the terminals of the departure to the apartment from WLZ
- if there is access, it is available at WLZ on the lower floors

I propose to compare the results (or rather their differences) with what should come out theoretically (estimation based on the length and cross-section of the conductors) - any greater inconsistency suggests a bad connection. If the IPZ is bad at the point closest to the power supply, you need to notify the electrician from the co-operative / community or EV.

from the additions that turned out, it turned out that the lighting installation is 1.5 ^ 2, the sockets for the stove, washing machine, refrigerator and computer are 2.5 ^ 2, and the rest (i.e. under the TV), rooms and others are at 1, 5 ^ 2. All these circuits are on fuses 16 (as I wrote earlier).
They are not combined anywhere. Could this be it ?!

PS. specialist measurements this week.

Apparently the measurements have been taken. Everything is supposed to be ok.
Apparently, the phase on which the apartment is located was crazy, on another phase it is (supposedly) ok - on that one it supposedly even fell to 216V, on this one it is ok.

Although according to my meter it is the same from 228V to 224V when connecting a kettle (2.5 ^ 2 circuit), measured on 1.5 ^ 2 circuit.

An electrician suggests a problem on the operator's side.

Do I need any documents to call the Operator (Enea)? It is probably not normal for the decrease to be ~ 5V, and because of this decrease the light dimmed very slightly, but still?

sapsapl wrote:

Supposedly measurements were taken. All supposedly okay.
Supposedly the phase where the apartment is in was a mess, the other phase is (supposedly) ok - on that one supposedly it even dropped to 216V, it is ok.

sapsapl wrote:

Electrician suggests the problem on the operator's side.

If the specialist assessed it like that I guess he is right.

sapsapl wrote:

It's probably not normal for the drop to be ~ 5V

Why? It depends on what load. Certainly the voltage will not increase with a higher load. It may be normal, but it's a bit hard to say on the Internet.

Unfortunately, the problem reappeared, everything that burned down recently (hdmi TV, hdmi amplifier, pc graphics card) replaced, but unfortunately not everything is guaranteed yet.

When washing the meter, it shows the load at a maximum of 4 A, the current then drops from 230 to even 223V, it is strange that it does not drop at peak moments. on spin it drops to 226, and goes back to 228V.

Is it worth calling someone from ENEA?

Hello.

It is worth calling the owner / manager of the building, and it is worth taking measurements as close to the property boundary between the ZE and the Recipient (building) as possible, and only then the network operator (Enea).
Because the problem may be in the building's WLZ, and this needs to be clarified.
The burning of 1-phase receiving devices suggests the lack of the so-called "zero" on the power supply.

Turn off the building's main fuses, check the voltage and SWZ on the building's power supply. Check the continuity of the wires at the WLZ.
If it does not find the cause, check the continuity of the power supply to the apartment.

elpapiotr wrote:

Hello.

It is worth calling the owner / manager of the building, and it is worth taking measurements as close to the property boundary between the ZE and the Recipient (building) as possible, and only then the network operator (Enea).
Because the problem may be in the building's WLZ, and this needs to be clarified.
The burning of 1-phase receiving devices suggests the lack of the so-called "zero" on the power supply.

Turn off the building's main fuses, check the voltage and SWZ on the building's power supply. Check the continuity of the wires at the WLZ.
If it does not find the cause, check the continuity of the power supply to the apartment.

The building is a flat in a block of flats, the administrator is the community.

As for the burning, the graphics, the amplification device, and the HDMI on the TV went, so maybe the current peaks were too frequent and maybe instead of 5V to the HDMI went more as the current jumped, because as I remember correctly, the measurements at home did not show a lack of zero.

TWK wrote:

15kVmaciej wrote:

For my part, I will propose the measurement of the L-PE loop resistance in the table

L-PE will not do much, rather LN ...

I would measure this impedance (or resistance, depending on the meter) successively at the following points:
- a fading lamp,
- sockets after the load of which this lamp dims,
- in places where these circuits are connected (boxes)
- in the switchgear, both at the output of the circuits and at the input
- at the terminals of the departure to the apartment from WLZ
- if there is access, it is available at WLZ on the lower floors

I propose to compare the results (or rather their differences) with what should come out theoretically (estimation based on the length and cross-section of the conductors) - any greater inconsistency suggests a bad connection. If the IPZ is bad at the point closest to the power supply, you need to notify the electrician from the co-operative / community or EV.

Without Accurate Short Circuit Loop Measurements, it's just a fairy tale.
4 months have passed since June and my colleague has still not provided the measurement results, have they been made or has the case been forgotten?

GBW wrote:

4 months have passed since June and my colleague has still not provided the measurement results, have they been made or has the case been forgotten?

The measurements were taken, in my absence - I did not get anything on the piece of paper. So probably the measurements are worthy.

How much should decent measurements cost? Maybe you can recommend someone from Poznań.

Since the measurements were made, the community should have a protocol.
We only have a short circuit loop measurement here, so it should fit in PLN 200.