Carbon monoxide release when burning wood in fireplace or stove and CO detector use

gaz4 wrote:

one of my neighbors died as a result of a smoke and her daughter was barely rescued.

Was the cause of the poisoning wood (and this is the topic of the plot), an accident, or carelessness as in the vast majority of CO poisonings?

gaz4 wrote:

I will always report any disrespectful, mocking and frivolous entries about carbon monoxide, zero tolerance.

You have that right. The difference is that you will always report, denounce, "wire" or "pick up" rather than report. You can submit, for example, a candidacy, your accession, a dissenting opinion, etc. Do not be afraid of these words and let's name it, and you promote newspeak that puts the meaning of words on its head. Not that I have a grudge. I am aware of the fact that informing has become a kind of natural and - what is worse - socially accepted tool in "getting things done" in Poland. It is said that 80% of the interventions undertaken by PINB are the aftermath of a neighborhood denunciation. Pardon: submissions Well, by the way.

gaz4 wrote:

This led to a chimney draft reversal and the wood-burning stove began to poison

Do not lie. A wood-fired stove can lead to a slight headache only because of the small amount of oxygen (after its partial burnout) in the room where the hearth is located. And only in the more sensitive people - an individual trait.
Another thing is gas or coal (also added to the wood). Here, in the case of negligence or "savings", there are no jokes.

gaz4 wrote:

For the same reason, most carbon monoxide poisoning occurs, fuel is irrelevant .

Oh no. Fuel is crucial. I don't bother readers.

gaz4 wrote:

The worst "modification" that can be made to a bathroom door is to cover the grille so that it does not drag on the legs!

The grille in the bathroom door is used to improve ventilation, BUT aimed at improving the drainage of moist air (increasing the number of air changes, vide PN) and not the discharge of any exhaust fumes.

Moderated By piracik:

3.1.11. Don't post messages that add nothing to the discussion. They are misleading, dangerous or do not solve the user's problem.
3.1.9. Do not be ironic and do not be malicious with the other side of the discussion. Please respect dissenting opinion and other opinions in the forum.
Your statement is harmful and misleading. CHAD IS DANGEROUS and you argue with it.

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

one of my neighbors died as a result of a smoke and her daughter was barely rescued.

Was the cause of the poisoning wood (and this is the topic of the plot), an accident, or carelessness as in the vast majority of CO poisonings?

Yes, the stove was fired only with wood when it was poisoned. And there was nothing that could be called "carelessness". As I wrote, it is a matter of the lack of access to combustion air because the doors and windows have been replaced with tight ones. The stove is mounted on the top floor of the tenement house, which means a very short chimney. It was already spring, so they burned for up to two three days, so the chimney was cold. It really doesn't take much to run out.

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

I will always report any disrespectful, mocking and frivolous entries about carbon monoxide, zero tolerance.

You have that right. The difference is that you will always report, denounce, "wire" or "pick up" rather than report. You can submit, for example, a candidacy, your accession, a dissenting opinion, etc. Do not be afraid of these words and let's name it, and you promote newspeak that puts the meaning of words on its head.

I pressed the "report to moderator" button and that was the word I used. But if someone poses a real threat to the health and life of others, I am not afraid to be an informer, a snitch, etc. A guy who makes eggs for himself out of real risk is the same as persuading a drunk to get behind the wheel - but heca will be like a zigzag ride ...

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

This led to a chimney draft reversal and the wood-burning stove began to poison

Do not lie. A wood-fired stove can lead to a slight headache only because of the small amount of oxygen (after its partial burnout) in the room where the hearth is located. And only in the more sensitive people - an individual trait.
Another thing is gas or coal (also added to the wood). Here, in the case of negligence or "savings", there are no jokes.

Please take a look at what I specialize in: chemistry. I can accurately describe the processes that occur during wood combustion, including the energy balance. Therefore, please forgive yourself phrases like "do not lie", since one of the stages of burning wood is afterburning of charcoal . It was at this stage that the poisoning happened because the charcoal did not get any air from the outside but began to suck it in through a short and cold chimney. If a sealed room begins to cool down, the flue gases will be sucked in from the stove and that's it. How do you think this analysis is wrong, point to a specific point, not generalities such as "wood does not lead to poisoning because it is not gas or coal". As much as possible, coal is produced from wood, this is one of the stages of its combustion, so what exactly is it?

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

For the same reason, most carbon monoxide poisoning occurs, fuel is irrelevant .

Oh no. Fuel is crucial. I don't bother readers.

Look up. If, from the point of view of chemical processes, fumes cannot be produced from wood, please prove it. Colleagues who commented on this tam is unanimous: yes, burning wood can cause carbon blacks . If you think otherwise, just prove it by writing the chemical reaction of burning wood with insufficient air supply.

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

The worst "modification" that can be made to a bathroom door is to cover the grille so that it does not drag on the legs!

The grille in the bathroom door is used to improve ventilation, BUT aimed at improving the drainage of moist air (increasing the number of air changes, vide PN) and not any exhaust fumes.

Not! The grille in the door is to ensure the supply of air from the outside necessary for the proper functioning of the ventilation and / or chimney. And that is why in bathrooms with "junkers", etc., there are soots. Because if we do not provide the right amount of air, the carbon monoxide will arise and, what is worse, it will have no place to fly out because of too small "cug". In extreme cases, the chimney draft may be reversed!

https://muratordom.pl/instalacje/ogoszenia-pa...truniem-tlenkiem-wegla-aa-DXzT-TwSC-pq7F.html

"Carbon monoxide poisoning often occurs after replacing windows with new, very tight ones.

Such windows mean that the air supply to the room stops, and the ventilation stops working. If there is no tragedy, it is only because luckily there is some leak in the house (for example under the front door) or the air for combustion flows through the ventilation ducts (the direction of air flow is reversed). Then it gets very cold in the bathroom, because a lot of cold air flows straight from the outside, through the exhaust grille. "

The freezing cold bathrooms on the top floors are very common. And this shows how often the cable reversal described above occurs in the ventilation system. Fortunately, "junkers" are becoming rarer and only because of this reason the owners of poorly designed or defective houses avoid poisoning. It does not matter if the bathroom has only a chimney or there is also ventilation,without a grille in the air supply door (and unsealed windows) cease to function properly. As the cug turns in the chimney, and not the ventilation (this is the shortest and / or coldest duct), the flue gases do not fly outside, but inside.

gaz4 wrote:

If, from the point of view of chemical processes, fumes cannot be produced from wood, please prove it.

Friend, from the dawn of civilized history, it is proved by those who say and not deny it. The more it "defends itself".

In trace amounts, there is methanol in wine, which is drunk with wine and that Entire .
That there is methanol in wine is known to anyone who has ever had its light fraction distilled from wine before the didactic distillation of ethanol.

Your information about the so-called poisoning carbon monoxide and fatal poisoning resulting from burning wood (incomplete combustion of the carbon in the wood) is, to put it mildly, incredible. And the "colleagues" you mention, who express themselves, only make their presumptions in this area.

The obvious threats that arise when operating stoves with an open combustion chamber are a completely different matter - they do not concern the topic, they are off-topic.

We told each other everything. You can also add any label you want to your profile. Internet is a street. Therefore, this "badge" neither testifies nor determines anything.

Moderated By piracik:

3.1.11. Don't post messages that add nothing to the discussion. They are misleading, dangerous or do not solve the user's problem.
3.1.9. Don't be ironic and don't be mean with the other side of the discussion. Please respect dissenting opinion and other opinions in the forum.
Your statement is harmful and misleading. CHAD IS DANGEROUS, and you argue with it.

Fidelis wrote:

gaz4 wrote:

If, from the point of view of chemical processes, fumes cannot be produced from wood, please prove it.

Friend, from the dawn of civilized history, it is proved by those who say and not deny it. The more it "defends itself".

Do you come here with an opinion inconsistent with what the majority wrote and you think that we have to prove something? Turning the cat's tail away, but here you go, let me start with one word: holzgaz

http://www.drewnozamiastbenzyny.pl/gaz-drzewny-definicja/

"Wood gas (German: holzgas) is produced in the process of gasification of wood. It is a mixture of combustible gases: carbon monoxide , hydrogen and methane, "

As you can see, carbon monoxide, i.e. carbon monoxide, is the basic component of wood gas. How is it made? Well, the first stage of wood combustion and in the above-mentioned wood gas synthesis is pyrolysis. As a result, charcoal is formed, and the gases released as a result of it are burned and constitute a source of energy for this process. Pyrolysis is also the first stage of wood combustion, so both processes are the same up to this point. Next, we can analyze other sources of carbon monoxide, such as the commonly known incomplete combustion according to this equation:

2C + O2 -> 2CO

But this is not the only source of carbon monoxide as under the right conditions the Boudoard reaction also takes place:

C + CO2 -> 2CO

In the case of wood, we also have large amounts of H2O (from pyrolysis or combustion of its hydrocarbons), which gives us another source of carbon monoxide:

C + H2O = CO + H2

In conclusion: you are trying to prove that carbon monoxide cannot be made of wood, although it is not only produced, but has been widely used. Holzgaz, i.e. a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, was used to power cars in difficult times like war. A was made of wood subjected to incomplete combustion with a limited amount of oxygen + the above-mentioned additional reactions. The drier the wood, the less hydrogen and more carbon monoxide in the wood gas. On the above-linked forum there is a detailed lecture on this subject made by a chemist so capable that (I must admit honestly) I did not understand everything about it. When we enter the password "holzgaz" it will crash thousands of results where the formula CO will be in most of the equations. If we cut off the access of air in the furnace or boiler, we turn it into a holgas generator - many of them exploded in the face when they opened the door of such a "generator".

You are still on the position that everyone is wrong ("they formulate their presumptions") and, contrary to all theory and practice, wood will not be made of carbon? If so, refute the above equations and prove your point.

I close the topic with this accent.

@gaz4 And what happens to the CO when it is already in the room and we open the window, does the CO turn into CO2 or escape through the window because it is lighter than air? It always puzzled me that when I open the window, the CO level drops to zero even though the sunroof is still closed. When the embers are not burnt from the wood, the CO level is actually in the range of 100 PPM with the damper closed in a tiled stove. The CO level drops faster when the damper is at least half open. When burning LPG from a 33 kg cylinder at the ceiling, it was as much as 800 PPM, I don't know what was in this cylinder, but I felt biting gas in my throat, then I opened the hatch to the attic and the door so as not to get poisoned. These levels of CO are when the gas is burnt out of these cylinders. The dealer didn't explain why. I did not measure the CO level when burning coal. When I start burning coal, I'll check how much it escapes. Even when I burn wood, I often open the window to exchange CO2 for clean air.

"Moderated by pirate: Your statement is harmful and misleading. CO2 IS DANGEROUS, and you argue with it."

My statement is rational and I certainly do not mislead anywhere, although I encourage you to be guided by reason and not unfounded fear or replicated everywhere superstition or generality. Nowhere do I argue that carbon monoxide is dangerous .

gaz4 wrote:

In summary: you're trying to prove that carbon monoxide cannot be made from wood

Not. I didn't write anything like that, much less "try to prove" anything. I only pointed out (on the example of methanol in wine) that there are or may be a lot of harmful or even potentially dangerous substances in our environment, but their trace amount does not have to automatically determine anything ( see 4Mother sensor readings).

4Matka wrote:

When I start burning coal, I'll check how much it escapes.

Only when burning with coal (and more precisely when burning coal in coal ), dear 4Mother, don't let experiments with this... "although the damper still be closed" come to your mind. When burning with coal and experimenting "with a closed damper" there are really no embers. A neighbor who burned coal all her life was buried at her grandmother's, so she had practice in burning coal. What came to her mind to close the still glowing hearth for the night with a "slipper" - we don't know and we won't find out.

4Matka wrote:

@gaz4 And what happens to the CO when it is already in the room and we open the window, does the CO turn into CO2 or escape through the window because it is lighter than air?

It escapes although some may turn into CO2. However, oxygen is not enough to oxidize carbon monoxide, ozone is necessary. The reaction is most effective in the light. It doesn't have to be intense, a bulb is enough, but the light must be there. In winter, the level of O3 in the air is quite low, but 60 ug (about 30 ppm) is not uncommon. In some places (close to industries, power lines, etc.) it may be higher. Often, when I air the apartment, I smell a strong smell, which means that it has about 100 ug (50 ppm) which is typical for summer. As the air is intensively mixed, the removal of CO by oxidation to CO2 can be quite rapid. But still counted in single percentages, most of the smoke will simply fly out the window. By the way, all emitted CO in the atmosphere is oxidized according to this summary equation:

CO + O3 -> CO2 + O2

Fidelis wrote:

My statement is rational and I certainly do not mislead anywhere, although I encourage you to be guided by reason and not unfounded fear or replicated everywhere superstition or generality. Nowhere do I argue that carbon monoxide is dangerous.

Fidelis wrote:

Do not lie. A wood-burning stove can lead to a slight headache at most, and only because of the small amount of oxygen (after its partial burnout) in the room where the hearth is located. And only in what more sensitive people - an individual feature.

Enough of this.