Carbon monoxide release when burning wood in fireplace or stove and CO detector use

Can carbon monoxide, i.e. CO, be released when burning wood in a fireplace or stove? And will the popular and commercially available carbon monoxide detector work as a last resort?

What is released when wood is burned depends on the amount of oxygen, and so we have soot, CO and CO2. If carbon monoxide is released from the furnace and its concentration in the air is sufficient, the detector will work. Most accidents are leaky gas stoves (their chimneys) and sealed windows and vents. The stove burns all the oxygen from the environment and the chimney leaks do the rest ...

In an open fireplace, rather unlikely, unless we seal the room, but in closed ones it is very possible, but only through leaks in the housing.

There is some of it on the market.
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=cr&ei=b8eXUovYKuGD4gTTqIDADg#q=co+sensor

To be sure, I use two different companies.

Chad will always be released, no matter what the fuel (gas, coal, oil, wood) is, it is enough for the combustion to be incomplete. Too little oxygen.
The carbon monoxide sensor will also work on carbon monoxide regardless of the type of fuel.
There used to be a lot of poisoning from tiled stoves installed in every room.
It was screwed into such a door which kept it warm for a long time. Unfortunately, the leak on the chimney was enough and the misfortune is ready.

saskia wrote:

In an open fireplace, rather unlikely

It is enough that there is no supply ventilation to the room.

That's right and I wrote about it later in the sentence.
Besides, if the air supply is "sealed", the smoke will be in the room, not the chimney. And in the absence of an inlet, it is impossible to even fire up without smoke in the room.

Is there carbon in wood as an element? Because CO is produced by incomplete combustion of coal. What is the formula for burning wood so that the result is also CO, which is carbon monoxide?

"C6H10O5 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 5H2O + energy released

Of course, this is a simplified formula assuming that wood is made of only carbon, oxygen and hydrogen atoms, and that pure oxygen is fed into the combustion chamber. It is also assumed in advance that each time complete and complete combustion takes place, that is, that all wood particles have been broken down into the simplest forms "

http://www.paliwadrzewne.pl/index.php?dzid=99&did=48

Wood is primarily coal.
Coal is quite reactive-aggressive in reacting with oxygen and strives to combine in CO2, low temperatures of the combustion process, with insufficient oxygen supply, cause-facilitate the formation of CO.
A simple example is the (dangerous) spilling of water onto well-heated coal, e.g. coke. It is then able to collect oxygen from the hydrogen, and then, if there is oxygen access from outside the furnace, the hydrogen ignites to form water again. Of course, burning hydrogen is explosive, so pouring water on hot coal ends in an accident.

But from this example, you can see that carbon tends to combine with oxygen more strongly than hydrogen.
Thus, this CO formation is therefore largely confined to the extremely poor combustion conditions.

(C6H10O5) n + 3n O2 -> 6n CO + 5n H2O

Wood is mainly cellulose - polysaccharide, sugar, carbohydrate. And probably any carbohydrate can be oxidized to CO.

Bravo, Bravo, bravo; this is what these chimney sweeps are waiting for

A little information gathered in one place and from people dealing with the topic of boilers and the dangers associated with them, and the processes taking place in the boilers, will never hurt anyone, quite the opposite.

I personally perceived this topic as a kind of test carried out by col. Mirrzo. :-)

Moderated By mirrzo:

And that's what the forum is for. Not everyone knows that wood also produces fumes. Maybe this topic will be useful to someone someday there.

Olokris wrote:

Well, the deceased will read that they neglected basic safety procedures and therefore are dead. Total nonsense !!! If someone has a problem with the installation, he will write about it, and someone who does not know that the carbon monoxide is released from everything that burns, not to mention the conditions in which it arises and will not be saved in an emergency and all this writing leads to punching points so how the tax is used to punch Tusk's pockets. Anyway, it's nice that someone remembers that it is so banal for the authorities that caused me to wander abroad, a problem that is important for people. Yours sincerely

Buddy, even after 35 years of practice in the subject, I have a beautifully working fireplace and efficient ventilation, and 2 CO sensors are disfiguring the walls near the fireplace and one in the kitchen.
Do you know why? And it certainly has nothing to do with taxes.

Olokris wrote:

Unless, as a moderator, you set up a topic that makes no sense for others to make an idiot out of themselves,

Only now has it arrived who started the topic
The man was so manipulated.

There is one factor that no one has ever noticed, although it has been circulated around it.
Wood (cellulose, lignin, etc.) contains a lot of oxygen, so burning it consumes significantly less atmospheric oxygen, and under certain conditions (e.g. in a typical airtight house), wood will have a much lower risk of oxygen-deficient combustion. In addition, the lower calorific value is related to the consumption of heat for the evaporation of water contained in cellulose (water contained in wood, but also hydrogen and oxygen atoms that make up water in carbon watering ) - so in the case of oxygen deficiency, the temperature "quenches" much faster and combustion stops. Therefore, burning wood is safe under normal conditions, unlike coal under the same conditions.
Edit:
If someone did not understand it, I will write it differently: Coal can burn with oxygen deficiency, especially pre-lit to high temperature, the wood will simply die out.

Only if, when burning wood, there is carbon monoxide and it escapes into the room, smoke will also escape with it, and not only will you see it, you will first of all feel it (although the chat itself is odorless) and you will immediately find out that something is there wrong and you will not be able to stand in such a room.

On the other hand, in gas stoves during combustion, mainly carbon monoxide and CO2 are released, both of which are odorless. You are not able to detect any leaks because you will not feel anything dangerous.

It is as good as if you were sitting by the fire and poisoned yourself with carbon monoxide. Has anyone ever heard of someone dying of smoke while grilling?

phanick wrote:

... during combustion, mainly carbon monoxide and CO2 are released and both of these gases are odorless ... because you will not feel anything dangerous.

As long as I agree that CO is odorless, then CO2 - NO
CO2 is clearly acidic gas.

So what - can we taste it?

Chris_W wrote:

So what - can we taste it?

You won't be able to taste it, but your lungs can sense it because they are more sensitive to it than your taste cells. CO2 is quite strange because, while not being an ion, even when "dissolved" in water, it has a strong acidic reaction.
It is precisely the strong acidic reaction of CO2 that causes the exhalation reactions.
Pay attention to how you drink carbonated drink from the glass and a fraction of a second before drinking you will be sucked in CO2 floating above the glass. Although you inhale, the lungs, when they get a high concentration of CO2, exhale unconditionally, even at the beginning of the inhale, giving the effect as if you choke.
WHAT will not.
Personally, as a 19-year-old, I had the unpleasantness of poisoning myself with CO while taking a bath.
The heater was above the bathtub, probably PG1 or 2 with a lever to regulate the temperature.
Luckily, when I felt bad, i.e. I saw a strange thing, it's hard to describe anything between getting drunk and drunk at the same time, but I just felt a strange sour taste.
Only that I knew about CO poisoning saved me, and it is possible that this sour taste of CO2 helped me to know what was going on earlier.
At the moment of feeling bad, there was "hell that's CO" and I jumped out of the bathtub as if scalded. I threw on my bathrobe and stormed out of the bathroom.
As if that was not enough, the bathroom door was opened and the sisters, 2-year-old daughter, walked over to the sofa on which I lay down and suddenly she collapsed.
The sister started her cucic, but to no avail.
It lasted several seconds after I left the bathroom and when I recovered and realized that CO flowed out of the bathroom, and my sister, shaken up, I just pushed her (holding her daughter in her arms) outside (about minus 20 degrees Celsius). and then her daughter inhaled and began to breathe normally.

As it turned out, a strong wind was pushing back the exhaust fumes from the heater.
The heater and external flue pipe were changed in a few days.

From this event it follows that there must be efficient ventilation, especially a ventilation grille at the floor (CO flows out to the outside), an efficient exhaust gas exhaust, which is not influenced by the wind, it is not allowed to place the heater-boiler with an open chamber above the bathtub (CO and exhaust gases will flow then to the bathtub, suffocating the person in the bathtub), and the bathroom door must open to the outside of the bathroom to facilitate exit from the bathroom and not to block the door in case of fainting, especially if there is a heater or a boiler in it.

saskia wrote:

this sour taste of CO2 helped to see what was going on earlier

Is it the sour taste you feel in rooms heated with portable stoves for 20 kg LPG cylinders?

saskia wrote:

do not place the heater-boiler with an open chamber above the bathtub (CO and exhaust gases will then flow into the bathtub, suffocating the person in the bathtub)

And why this conclusion (skipping peculiar experiments) that AKURAT flows into the bathtub ?

saskia wrote:

air supply grille at the floor (CO flows out to the outside)

I was taught that WHAT was LIGHTER than air.

Fidelis wrote:

saskia wrote:

this sour taste of CO2 helped to see what was going on earlier

Is it the sour taste you feel in rooms heated with portable stoves for 20 kg LPG cylinders?

saskia wrote:

do not place the heater-boiler with an open chamber above the bathtub (CO and exhaust gases will then flow into the bathtub, suffocating the person in the bathtub)

And why this conclusion (skipping peculiar experiments) that AKURAT flows into the bathtub ?

saskia wrote:

air supply grille at the floor (CO flows out to the outside)

I was taught that WHAT was LIGHTER than air.

No, this is not the same aftertaste as LPG.

Pay attention to the fact that I wrote about CO and exhaust gases, and these, when mixed, form a string of gases, just like a small fan which will pull even lighter gases down, and that the bathtub will be under the cauldron, the whole bath will be fully filled before it flows out of it.
Besides, you probably taught you about gas diffusion in school as well.

Gases are liquids - and so are subject to fluid mechanics. This means that they can fill vessels and streams are formed. Temperature plays an important role - it affects the density so much that it minimizes or reverses the impact resulting from the atomic mass of the gas.

saskia wrote:

just like a small fan which will pull even lighter gases down

Now we add another "artificial" variable - pressure.

saskia wrote:

Besides, you probably taught you about gas diffusion in school as well.

And what are they supposed to diffuse here? What does this have to do with the CO filling of the bathtub in the first place?

@ Chris_W
I do not know anything about room temperature increasing the atomic mass of CO to such an extent that it becomes lighter than the surrounding air. Although, as the manufacturer does, he provides different recommendations for the location of the sensors in the same - home - conditions.

Fidelis wrote:

saskia wrote:

just like a small fan which will pull even lighter gases down

Now we add another "artificial" variable - pressure.

saskia wrote:

Besides, you probably taught you about gas diffusion in school as well.

And what are they supposed to diffuse here? What does this have to do with the CO filling of the bathtub in the first place?

@ Chris_W
I do not know anything about room temperature increasing the atomic mass of CO to such an extent that it becomes lighter than the surrounding air. Although, as the manufacturer does, he provides different recommendations for the location of the sensors in the same - home - conditions.

Well, if you know better, use your knowledge and don't blame anyone else if you don't get out of the bathtub one day.
There is no such thing as pure CO from a boiler, fireplace or gas water heater, without the rest of the flue gas that always accompanies it.
What you write about occurs only in laboratories. : -

Fidelis wrote:

@ Chris_W
I do not know anything about room temperature increasing the atomic mass of CO to such an extent that it becomes lighter than the surrounding air.

Temperature does not increase the atomic weight!
Temperature affects the density of the stream or other portion of gas - it increases in volume with the same mass, or otherwise - reduces its mass in the same volume - then even theoretically heavier gas can go up. If it is a mixture with air, the effect is even more pronounced, because the gas is only a fraction of the mass and its influence is smaller and the influence of temperature is bigger.
It's as if you were surprised that balloons powered by combustion burners fly - after all, they contain CO2 that is heavier than air.
I wrote this to explain that some gases go up even if they shouldn't - this fumes would also fly, it would go into the chimney and then into the atmosphere - I suppose that in every boiler and stove some gases are CO, how is the correct replacement air - these gases fly into the chimney, because they are lighter than the surrounding air, precisely because of the high temperature (I do not even penetrate what is theoretically heavier and what is not, even the dust then goes up).
The situation is different when there is a shortage of air in the room - although "incomplete combustion" occurs - but the ability to go upwards is of key importance here, hot gases show this, but they cannot fly up because negative pressure is created in the room, there is no air supply and these gases, even hot, do not fly anywhere, and pressure swirls outside (e.g. at the chimney outlet) cause temporary backflow of the flue gas, they ooze through the gaps in the furnace / boiler, while they are warm, collect under the ceiling in the room, then after cooling down, they fall in streams down there, or they are pushed there by other warmer layers of air, convection, i.e. rising and falling down under the influence of temperatures, is the key factor in mixing air that is heterogeneous in temperature.

saskia wrote:

Well, if you know better, use your knowledge and don't blame anyone else if you don't get out of the bathtub one day.

In my life, I try to use my knowledge and common sense against harm, not guesswork or presumption And my knowledge tells me that since WHAT is LIGHTER than air, it will fill the room "from above". Naturally, assuming that there will be no turbulent mixing with air, which will be contributed by e.g. a room fan. Therefore, if we have a grate of efficient exhaust ventilation (+ naturally unobstructed air supply) under the ceiling, the risk will be negligible. And certainly there will be no question of first "filling the bathtub", just because it is a vessel under the stove.

saskia wrote:

There is no such thing as pure CO from a boiler, fireplace or gas water heater, without the rest of the flue gas that always accompanies it.

"The rest of the exhaust gas" has nothing to do with it. We are talking about a CO that will go up.
I still don't know what diffusion you wrote about ...

Chris_W wrote:

It's as if you were surprised that balloons powered by combustion burners fly - after all, they contain CO2 that is heavier than air.

Let me remind you that the balloon's envelope (before the flight) is first filled with cold AIR, using a combustion fan. The shell of the hot air balloon, as the name suggests, is filled with heated air, not heated CO2 (though a little also as a by-product of LPG combustion) And it is the PRESSURE DIFFERENCE that determines the flight itself. Unlike gas balloons, the shells of which are filled with gas (e.g. natural gas, hydrogen, helium). So I'm not surprised :-)

As for the rest - of course agree.

The basis is density, which depends on the temperature. The theory is e.g. here:

http://www.chemia.sos.pl/nieorganiczna-r/52-podstawy/168-prawa-gazowe.html

As I can see, there is a troll who starts to get angry in his first post in a very old topic. As long as I tolerate even very stupid entries, I reported this one to the moderator. In 2015 or 2016, one of my neighbors died of a smoke and her daughter was barely rescued. This is the main reason why I will always report any disrespectful, mocking and frivolous entries about carbon monoxide, zero tolerance.

The cause of carbon monoxide poisoning is the lack of air supply due to too tight doors and windows. This led to a reversal of the chimney draft and the wood-burning stove began to poison. For the same reason most carbon monoxide poisoning occurs, fuel is irrelevant. Currently, the most common reason is the thermal baths installed in bathrooms and, as in the case of late neighbors, the reason is not a faulty chimney, but the lack of air supply due to tight bathroom doors. The tug stops or even inverts, and the seemingly blocked chimney stops working. The worst "modification" that can be made to a bathroom door is to cover the grille so that it does not drag on the legs! There are never too many such warnings. The chimney is important, but the supply of air through the grille in the door and unsealing in the windows is equally important.