There is a strange burning smell in the house when using the fireplace

Question

Hi, I have such a problem - when using the fireplace in my house you can smell burning puffs - something more like burned plastic than wood smoke, although it is difficult for me to describe it and clearly state that it is not smoke from the hearth. I bought the house second-hand with a...

tasch · Answer

note
there are some questions to be cleared.
- was the fireplace used intensively by its predecessor?
- is heat, blows, horseshoe received in some way?
- is combustion air supplied from the room or from outside?
- is the smell felt the same right after lighting up and after a few hours?
- do you have a CO detector?

when it comes to a disco, it will not do much because if there is a draft in the chimney, it will suck the air into "smoke" through the leaks
rather, you would have to plug the outlet and pressurized smoke to see where it escapes from the flue or connection to the chimney.

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Thanks for the answer.

Well:
- I don't know, but it didn't look 'worn out', but I've already burned it a few times - with a stench effect each time.
- There are no blows, only a chamber visible from the inside in the photos, with grilles on the bottom and top (in fact, I was thinking about installing a temperature fan on the top to reduce the temperature here).
- It is brought in from the outside - always open to the maximum, with the possibility of opening the inflow from the room, but I use the latter only for lighting.
- The smell appears quite quickly, of course its intensity decreases as it fades in the fireplace, but you can still smell it at home even for the next day.
- I do not have a CO sensor, but I could use a "manual" one so that I could apply it to different places in the fireplace and check the CO level, if any.

Well, I thought that without pressure, I would not see anything ... it would have to be a really free hole for such smoke to leak somewhere.
Reading the descriptions of similar problems shows that most likely it is not a problem with the chimney, but the 'burning' thermal insulation, although I am not sure of any ... But what to do with it now ...?

tasch · Answer

It seems that the smell is from overheating the cast iron, how hard you burn, to "white heat", the wire coatings will stink.
But the most important thing is the CO sensor. Even when the fireplace installation is at 110%.
I use: HONEYWELL CHAD DETECTOR XC100, it has been working for 2 years.
I checked ... from time to time ... runs on tobacco smoke.

Portable. Place it where you want, try it on the floor.
(you will have more carbon monoxide in the exhaust gas if you choke the air in the fireplace)
Carbon monoxide is almost the same mass as air, so it mixes and moves nicely.
I hope the smell will disappear with time, or you will get used to it, but the watch is obligatory.

gersik · Answer

Try to vacuum the entire plenum, including the exhaust pipe. Do not bring the fireplace to very high temperatures. It is better to smoke gently and longer. I had a weird smell too, but it rather stank of cast iron. At least, since the chamber is clean, I do not smell the smell.

Piotr_Zw · Answer

Then maybe I will also contribute my 3 cents.
I suppose that the source of the smell is the incorrect construction of the fireplace casing. Wool covered with aluminum foil is not a good idea - it can fry, dusty. Calcium silicate boards are a better material (several manufacturers are available, e.g. Varmsen / Skamol, Silca, etc.)
The source can also be assembly errors - even an inappropriate or incorrectly used primer. If the external temperature of the fireplace casing is too high, the outer layer of paint can also be a source of unpleasant and not very beneficial to health odors.

The fireplace insert itself may also introduce some disturbing smells during the first lighting (paints, preservatives), although such smells do not appear after 2-3 more solid burns.

You can also find a lot of threads related to the fireplace on the muratordom forum.
greetings

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Thanks.

My plan is to vacuum the interior of the chamber as thoroughly as possible - which will not be easy through the air supply openings, and if it does not help, it is also possible to cover the joints of heat-insulating boards with decent aluminum tape at least 350 degrees, visible in the photos. (and is there any 'bigger'?). If it still does not help, it will also replace the existing alu tape inside the chamber.

As for 'it's better to smoke more gently and longer' - maybe that's right, but the fireplace is not meant to be used for that, so that I would keep an eye on the temperature with a thermometer and get nervous that it might start to stink - I expect it will just work as intended.

I will not be replacing the thermal insulation in the near future - I have to do something to make it work as it is, and although it may not be the best product available, it is intended for it. If the smell appears, there may be some errors in the construction (as long as it is not a muck in the chamber) - I certainly do not like the unsecured joining of the plates visible in the 5th photo. Nevertheless, the fireplace itself, inside and outside, is generally done correctly and neatly. The wall heats up when you use the fireplace, but not so much that the paint burns - or even if it does - it should burn out over time. I am not able to determine the primer.

I was able to get in touch with the fireplace contractor from the previous owner - the guy is rather praised and with references - it makes me a bit optimistic. If I haven't done anything myself, I will probably use his help, and however I do not solve the problem - I will share my experience, but I cannot promise that it will happen soon.

I have read the whole internet about it

Including a bricklayer. I just wanted someone to take a look at my particular fireplace.

Edwin_ · Answer

Were you able to find out what the problem was? I have a similar situation - it feels like plastic from the comedian's channels.

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Unfortunately not.
I vacuumed the entire interior, sealed with alu tape all the bare wool spots available at my fingertips, but it didn't help ...

Do you have a new fireplace? Insulated with wool on the inside?
When you discover something - share it

Edwin_ · Answer

I had an old fireplace in the house that I moved into. During the renovation, the fireplace insulation was replaced with wool and aluminum foil, there is aluminum tape on the joints. It also seems to me that it could be tape, pipes in ducts or only grilles. The ventilation grids are metal, but the shutter is probably made of plastic. The smell is much stronger with heavy smoking than when I smoke less. I'll let you know when I figure something out.

pitersc2 · Answer

Hello everyone, a new house, a new fireplace and I have it, it's a real macabre, we can't smoke for the second season, every smoking ended with chasing guests out on Christmas Eve from the living room and airing the whole house during frost, rain and storms, a few dozen burns and nothing - further how hard it gets hot, it smells like plastic (we have small children, so additional stress), after the whole summer period without smoking we achieve this smell even faster and stronger, what are your contributions? we have Arysto contribution and limestone silicate boards, our lawyer must already work with it, because how much can you ask for it to solve the problem :(

Today, the Arysto company sent a technician who will measure the thickness of the paint coating on the fireplace - the fireplace installer thinks that the buildings must be ok, everyone is satisfied except for us: / I hope that you will finally be able to solve it, I will let you know about the next good luck!

mateo-salvadore · Answer

We are waiting for the story to be continued and its happy resolution.

Unfortunately, I will not say what my contribution is, because it is in the building and I am not able to identify it.
The funny thing is that for years people have had open fireplaces built the old way and I have never heard of similar problems ...

DiZMar · Answer

Because now there are smarter beaters to buy blind miracles (cartridges and other junk) and it is what it is. It was good it had to be broken.

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Ladies and gentlemen,

In view of the vague explanations of all kinds of specialists, I decided to take radical steps myself. So I took the gas burner, took "samples" of the insulation from the fireplace casing and started firing them, checking which material stinks so much.
In general, it turned out that it was ... an aluminum tape, which, at the right temperature, dealt with an intense, difficult to extinguish flame (or rather its glue).

So I removed from the chamber all the alu tape that I had reached (unfortunately not all) - although earlier I added fresh on the joints, which - as it turned out, had the opposite effect from the intended one.
I also removed a piece of wool adjacent to the exhaust pipe, the temperature of which reaches 400C during use.

Visual Effects Below:

I know you shouldn't leave "bare" wool, but there is no other solution ...
It was clearly visible that the glue on the tape was fried, so I cut out all the places where it was left:

The place where two strips of alu tape were stuck:

What's more - the stench of the burned tape stripped from the insulation was the same as what you felt while smoking.
I dumped a whole bucket of it:

Also, don't let anyone tell you that the wool does not dust ... a piece of wool removed from the exhaust pipe (some genius stuck it to the pipes with the said tape):

While the yellow wool is durable and stiff, the white, 'tanned' wool is very 'volatile' and it is dusty with every movement as light as possible.

Overall effect?
It is not perfect, because I did not manage to reach the entire tape through the ventilation holes, but at the top, i.e. in the area of the highest temperature, I released all of it, as a result - the stench has decreased significantly.
This leads to a simple conclusion - how someone wants to enjoy the fireplace - No wool for insulation - only hard, durable boards.

I am fed up with dealing with this fireplace in general - I plan to throw all the wool from inside first - if I succeed, and repeat the test. Ultimately, however, the fireplace casing will be dismantled and rebuilt with a new, "rigid" insulation.

I will inform you about possible successes.

Sstalone · Answer

@ mateo-salvadore and tell me what kind of ventilation YOU have, where is the fireplace? Is it factory insulation, this wool with foil, or was it done by the one who installed the fireplace? When working with mineral wool, you must wear a mask, remember.

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Ventilation is gravity with air inlets in the windows, while the fireplace has air suction from the outside.
But - you won't find anything new here - the ventilation is working properly, there is no back draft - and so is the fireplace chimney. At first I also suspected the chimney, I even raised it by 1.5 m with an insulated pipe and put a "fireman" on. Effect - none. The smell in the house is not the smell of fireplace exhaust fumes, but something completely different - it has nothing to do with exhaust fumes.

It is not insulation, but thermal insulation of the fireplace insert. It cannot be factory, because it is made individually and was done by the one who installed the fireplace - the previous owner of the house praised him as an excellent specialist - today I know that he is a bungler.

lukas92p · Answer

The question is how long do you have a contribution to the chimney? How did you write about the firefighter you mean this rotating rooster?

mateo-salvadore · Answer

I do not know how long it is - it protrudes 1.5 m above the "brick" chimney - yes, it was about this rooster.

But I explain to you that the smell does not come from the exhaust fumes from the fireplace, which is closed for the rest.

lukas92p · Answer

We had this cock, but my dad dismantled it because it stung and it did not rotate the problem was that it did not burn, the problem disappeared after its removal

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Well, this is a completely different nature of the problem ... my cock burns beautifully and the cock is new, in addition it has a ball bearing (which is not obvious, most of it is on sleeves).

Sstalone · Answer

What smells spread in the room depends on the efficiency of the ventilation installed in it. There must be efficient ventilation in the boiler room, the same applies to the living room with a fireplace, which is a kind of home boiler room. The mere supply of air through a pipe to the fireplace is not enough. What is a feature of the fireplace is the heating of the air from the fireplace, rising upwards and cold air flowing downwards from the walls. This mechanism distributes unpleasant smells from the fireplace much more than a radiator by the window. If we put smoldering plastic in the fireplace recess, as the insert warms up, the air in the recess heats up and flows outside into the room. The recipe is no flammable parts in the fireplace casing, the fireplace can heat unplastered brick or a small vent to the ventilation duct.

mateo-salvadore · Answer

Gentlemen and ladies - please provide substantive comments, because you are starting to litter the topic ...
I will let you know how I will finally solve the problem to dispel the doubts of those who have a similar one - breaking through the posts describing the same, incorrect or already discussed assumptions will not help anyone find a solution. But if the topic is inundated with the advice that I gave myself above - for the sake of order, I will close the topic without giving a solution ...

So far it has been established and not subject to further discussion:
-Ventilation is not a problem.
-Chimney back draft or lack of draft also not.
- The smell comes from the fireplace insert casing - probably from the thermal insulation
-The plan is that the problematic insulation will be removed and we'll see what to do next.

Roman sz. · Answer

Hello. For me, the smell of plastic did not allow for three years to use the fireplace and finally the service of the Kratki company and the correctly diagnosed reason: the pipe that discharges the fumes from the fireplace insert into the chimney not recommended by the manufacturer (probably badly painted), in addition, they removed the aluminum foil from the chimney inlet. with wool (they cut about 1.5 cm around the circumference) which adhered to this pipe. For several days we have been burning in the fireplace and in the house a pleasant smell.

kasuw · Answer

Did they also replace the recommended exhaust pipe?

Roman sz. · Answer

Yes, this pipe was the cause of the stench and after replacement the problem disappeared.

paulina31051990 · Answer

Good day. We have a similar problem with the fireplace. Could you please contact me, Mr. Roman? Added after 6 [minutes]: @ romansz3

Tommy2022 · Answer

Good morning, I found your post from two years ago, I would like to ask what conclusions did you come to? Were you finally able to diagnose the chemical smell problem? I will be grateful for your response. I have the same problem for 6 years, smoked not very often but several times a season, many times quite strongly, the inside of the fireplace before the season is always thoroughly vacuumed and to this day I have not found the reason, maybe because I gave up and just started to smoke less, so as not to warm up too much tight cartridge. But it annoys me that I have to smoke gently and be careful because if not, the whole house smells like chemicals. The neighbor in the house next door smokes to the max, putting in a whole pack of briquettes and nothing, no smell. The only advice for a professional who installed the insert and made the building is not to fire up too much and install an additional grille so as to lower the temperature inside the building. I have an Arysto contribution, GK construction from the inside of the wool plate on the joints with aluminum tape. It looks just like yours in the photos. Based on the analysis of what other people write and my own observations, the only thing that seems most likely to be the source of the chemical smell is: - exhaust pipe and all revisions, elbows between the fireplace and the entrance to the chimney, or rather a bad coating that emits this smell under the influence of high temperature or, - tapes connecting wool boards, - possibly a coating covering the Arysto fireplace insert. In this thread Mr. Roman sz. he just referred to the exhaust pipe and after replacing it the problem stopped, while Mr. (mateo-salvadore) indicates, at least two years ago, that it is most likely the fault of the Alu tape. So, I am asking people who managed to solve the problem to share how they eliminated the cause of the chemical smell. If the cause was the pipe and individual elements of the flue gas discharge, which company should be replaced to get rid of the problem once and for all. Thank you and best regards! -

mateo-salvadore · Answer

In general, I managed to find the cause, but I did not undertake to fix it.
The reason confirmed by other users, such as us, as well as by a construction auditor, and by ONE specialist in fireplaces (slowly more people are discovering the "advantages" of insulation used by them for years) is the wool used to insulate the chamber above the fireplace insert. Not just tape, but all wool with aluminum foil. The only solution is to dismantle the fireplace, throw away all the wool, clean the inside of the chamber of glue, and build it anew using silicate boards, or leaving only the GK board, which, however, will be considered inconsistent with the art.
However, because wool is considered to be in accordance with the art and does not work - I would not attach myself to the opinion of all these specialists, but at high temperatures the walls will turn yellow and the paint on the wall may start to smell, so it is better to use some insulation.

I was exhausted by this fireplace, so I just left it as an ornament and I don't use it. If they don't ban smoking in it, maybe I'll come back to the subject someday. However, if you care about use - one solution is, unfortunately, the reconstruction of the fireplace. Not replacing tubes, cartridges or anything else - this very rarely causes problems.

Tommy2022 · Answer

Thank you for the quick reply. Some time ago I was thinking about replacing the insulation with those made of silica-calcium plates, because the neighbor's buildings are made of such plates and he does not smell. However, you know it's not that easy, you have to dismantle the entire building, and I'm not 100% sure, because browsing the internet I came across that there are people who indicate the exhaust pipe from the cartridge as the source. That's why I left the topic. As you can see, it's hard to find a clear answer to solve the problem, I guess I'll have to use trial and error and I'm getting closer to taking a risk and replacing this insulation with silica plates. I will write how I decide and replace the insulation and what effects it brought. Regards

mateo-salvadore · Answer

I had such a plan to first cut a hole in the current buildings, remove all the wool thoroughly and vacuum the interior, put back a provisionally cut piece of plasterboard and light the fireplace to confirm the diagnosis. If it still smelled - I would replace the entire insert with pipes, and if not - I would cover the whole thing with silicate plates.

There is a strange burning smell in the house when using the fireplace

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