logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda

What is the allowable turbine clearance in a new or rebuilt compressor?

car centre 70959 20
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 13643430
    car centre
    Level 18  
    Question as in the subject.

    All because yesterday a customer brought me a new (as he claims) purchased from the Renault service (as he claims) compressor for the Renault Master Cdi. The turbine was really loose.

    What is the permissible turbine clearance in new or reconditioned compressors and how to measure it in workshop conditions?
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #2 13643976
    Pawel wawa
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    No noticeable slack.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #3 13644036
    fjodek
    User under supervision
    There must be no sideways play that does not rub against the housing
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • Helpful post
    #4 13644078
    CommonRail
    Level 27  
    fjodek wrote:
    to the sides so as not to rub against the housing


    You are wrong. I exchanged one at home. It was loose, did not rub against the walls, but poured mercilessly with oil. No play, neither radial nor axial.
  • Helpful post
    #5 13644097
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    It is logical, since it has some play to the side, no sealant will not seal it.
    The new cores have an undetectable micron clearance.
  • #6 13644423
    car centre
    Level 18  
    fjodek wrote:
    There must be no sideways play that does not rub against the housing

    What you are writing about are, as far as I know, the conditions for considering a compressor to be excessively worn out and eligible for replacement or repair. I meant the clearance of the new and regenerated compressor.
  • #7 13644737
    kasper1992
    Level 13  
    What do you care about the customer's compressor, then install it.
  • #8 13644792
    Wieszal
    Level 11  
    Not quite, because then it will go to the mechanic anyway, because it's the easiest way to complain about a mechanic. I would talk to the client about these loosenesses to make him aware of it, so you are okay with the client and this is appreciated.
  • #9 13646471
    CommonRail
    Level 27  
    Wieszal wrote:
    Not exactly, because then it will go to the mechanic anyway, because it's the easiest way to complain about a mechanic. I would talk to the client about these loosenesses to make him aware of it, so you are okay with the client and this is appreciated.

    Rule 1: do not assemble customer parts, only own checked / new ones. And if you have to, there is an appropriate statement that you are not responsible for parts, but the warranty only for assembly.
    If the turbo has any play, in my opinion it is a pity to even carry the mask for replacement. Regeneration is only a few hundred dollars more, and you know what you have. There are even self-remanufacturing kits in the trade. Even complete new cores are available. Study the construction of the turbocharger. If the sleeve and bearing are excessively worn, the desired sealant will not seal it.
  • #10 13656835
    Wieszal
    Level 11  
    In general, it is a respect for the car center for setting up a thread, if all the mechanics cared for the customers so much, we would have a better life. CommonRail wrote very well, and the statement "What do you care about the client's compressor so mount" eh I will leave without comment.
  • #11 13688546
    MartBan
    Level 22  
    Reading this, I have the impression that most of the statements of "mechanics" suggest a complete ignorance of the construction of the turbocharger. The rotor bearing itself is loosely mounted in the housing and is located in an oil cushion, so it is impossible to assess the clearance without taking it apart, sealing is another matter. The only thing that can be checked on the assembled compressor is, as already mentioned, the lack of axial play and whether it is not radially rubbing against the housing. And further clearance measurements are pure fairy tale, something like tugging at the propeller shaft support and disqualifying the bearing, because the rubber is moving.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #12 13688735
    żałosna udręka
    Level 34  
    I recently replaced the turbine at home with the original. On the old one, the first and one-off symptom was a reduced power above 200 km / h. I was not able to find it again, and there were no other signs of wear, such as oil intake, etc. The organoleptic comparison of both turbines showed that there was a noticeable minimal axial (longitudinal) play on the old one. The lateral play is identical, at least in the hand the difference is not noticeable.
  • #13 13707661
    stetryczały tetryk
    Level 12  
    MartBan wrote:
    Reading this, I have the impression that most of the statements of "mechanics" suggest a complete ignorance of the construction of the turbocharger. The rotor bearing itself is loosely mounted in the housing and is located in an oil cushion, so it is impossible to assess the clearance without taking it apart, sealing is another matter. The only thing that can be checked on the assembled compressor is, as already mentioned, the lack of axial play and whether it is not radially rubbing against the housing. And further clearance measurements are pure fairy tale, something like tugging at the propeller shaft support and disqualifying the bearing, because the rubber is moving.


    With what to the people. What is "loose rotor bearing in housing". You can loosely install bearings (ball bearings, Chinese) to a Chinese mower. Comparing a rotor to an elastic support only shows your little knowledge. Because it's like comparing an elastic joint from a toddler to a properly twisted, efficient double-breasted jacket. Oil pillows and what else? And for that oil pad, what does it do when it starts up and what's worse when it goes out? World power oil hovercraft confidently.
    Coming back to the topic, no slack felt with the fingers. Shoulders without any damage visible to the naked eye. Well, we can check how we buy a stimulant.
  • #14 13708369
    CommonRail
    Level 27  
    stetryczały tetryk wrote:
    Coming back to the topic, no slack felt with the fingers. Shoulders without any damage visible to the naked eye. Well, we can check how we buy a stimulant.


    Currently, I have to wait for payment to do turbo. The rotor has a slight side play, the compression wheel rubs against the auger on the suction side, the turbo whistles, loads poorly. I put the repair kit on and it only helped so much that there is no longitudinal play. The transverse, smaller one remained.
  • #15 13709159
    tomek70
    Level 21  
    stetryczały tetryk wrote:
    With what to the people
    Exactly. Have you ever had a turbocharger in your hand? Do you know the principle of operation? I hope you are not regenerating the turbines, because I can see the rotor speeding up to 200,000 rpm at 1000 degrees Celsius, folded without
    stetryczały tetryk wrote:
    no backlash
    .
  • #16 13713474
    stetryczały tetryk
    Level 12  
    And these 1000 degrees will some oil cushion cool down? Do you know what happens at such a speed with such a temperature? So don't laugh it off like that. Because if it were to be as you imagine, you would have your bearings immediately after the pot meal or the putting out.

    How many of them I had in my hands will not be up to you. And you say that there should be slack because the oil will delete it. How wise, write what the revs are right after starting the engine, without practically any recharging. You can regenerate the turbo-caps, you disqualify your further arguments with this stupid text.
  • #17 13713546
    tomek70
    Level 21  
    My friend, there is nothing to float. Everyone can have an opinion. My colleague MartBan wrote the whole truth in one post, and your answer was very pretentious, although in my opinion you are wrong. It is possible that someone will say that I am also wrong. A human error, said the rooster as he descended from the duck. Greetings.
  • #18 15228319
    Wlodek22
    Level 31  
    Sorry, it is digging up, but I dismantled two compressors for Almery n16 2.2 di and in both, 80% of the noticeable lateral play was not between the axle and the bushing (bearing), but between the brass bushing and the cast iron housing. Is it supposed to be this way?
  • #19 15228896
    wielecki
    Level 21  
    Wlodek22 wrote:
    Is it supposed to be this way?
    so it has to be. The so-called the oil film is formed just between this brass bushing-bearing and the compressor body. In newer compressors, all garrets use ball bearings instead of these slide bushings. All this play in a working compressor is caused by this gap between the bearing and the body, especially when the compressor is new or has not been operated for a long time and the oil has leaked out. Note that the play can be obtained by starting the rotor sideways, expelling the oil. Therefore, Garrett actually claims that the allowable axial clearance is one that does not rub the rotor against the housing. Backlash does not have much to do with a seal. This is what other devices do.
  • #20 15228922
    Wlodek22
    Level 31  
    This is how a metal ring seals on a special sleeve. The ring seems to stand in place, propped against the body, and the load bushing together with the rotor and axle. Here it probably all depends on the thickness of the ring and the width of the groove in the sleeve. It is not generally tight, but as long as it has oil it will bleach. There cannot be too many steps there, because it has double oil / water cooling.
  • #21 21516142
    rabiega9530
    Level 1  
    Total nonsense. On cold, rotor clearance can be up to 1 mm. A lot of factors influence the play differences, such as the torque, the warm-up time of the water system, reaching the exhaust temperature. Oil, as it is known, is thick when cold, so it causes a really negligible amount of pick-up and lubricates the brass bushing, which expands with temperature like any metal. That's why it's advisable to cool the turbo down at low speed after a tour, because cooling it down too quickly can cause the material, soft from the temperature, to harden by force. You can probably guess the rest.

Topic summary

The discussion centers around the permissible turbine clearance in new or rebuilt compressors, particularly for the Renault Master CDI. Participants emphasize that there should be no noticeable slack or sideways play in the turbine, and that any axial play should be minimal. The consensus is that new compressors have an undetectable micron clearance, and the rotor bearing is designed to operate within an oil cushion, making precise clearance measurement challenging without disassembly. Concerns are raised about the implications of loose turbines, including potential oil leakage and performance issues. The importance of using verified parts and the risks associated with customer-supplied components are also highlighted.
Summary generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT