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Economical Electric Heating Methods for a 2004 Canadian-Method 34m2 Studio Apartment

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  • #1 15895273
    fiiszu
    Level 8  
    Hello,

    I have been living in a studio apartment with an area of 34 m2 for two years. It is a block built probably in 2004, using the Canadian method. There is no gas in the block, only electricity. In winter, despite heating with two electric heaters, it is still cold, and electricity costs are terribly high, min. PLN 200. That's why I decided to write on this forum and ask if there are any other, more economical methods of electric heating.

    Please help,
    Regards
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  • #2 15895288
    kellygrzyb3
    Level 17  
    Air conditioner.
  • #3 15895388
    jega
    Level 24  
    kellygrzyb3 wrote:
    Air conditioner.
    If this is to be a solution for winter, it is not an air conditioner, but a heat pump. Roughly the same, i.e. in both cases it is an air-air heat pump, but those with the trade name "heat pump" are designed to operate down to -15°C (sometimes even more, even down to -25°C). Now is the sale period and you can buy such a pump quite cheaply, below PLN 2,000. The only problem is the need to find a place (on the balcony? on the façade?) to install the compressor.

    In addition, something for the bathroom - I would suggest either a blower or an infrared heater, because they will allow you to quickly heat the bathroom when needed. It is also worth adding underfloor heating, which will provide a warm floor in the bathroom.
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  • #4 15895416
    fiiszu
    Level 8  
    jega wrote:
    kellygrzyb3 wrote:
    Air conditioner.
    If this is to be a solution for winter, it is not an air conditioner, but a heat pump. Roughly the same, i.e. in both cases it is an air-air heat pump, but those with the trade name "heat pump" are designed to operate down to -15°C (sometimes even more, even down to -25°C). Now is the sale period and you can buy such a pump quite cheaply, below PLN 2,000. The only problem is the need to find a place (on the balcony? on the façade?) to install the compressor.

    In addition, something for the bathroom - I would suggest either a blower or an infrared heater, because they will allow you to quickly heat the bathroom when needed. It is also worth adding underfloor heating, which will provide a warm floor in the bathroom.


    Thank you very much for your answer.
    Could you please give me some recommendations for good heat pumps, for about PLN 2,000, matched to the size of the apartment? Because everything I find is terribly expensive.

    My second question is, is such a pump connected to the compressor with a cable or pipe? And unfortunately, the community of my block will not agree to drilling/installing any elements on the building wall - can this compressor ultimately be placed on 'bare' ground (I have a garden)?
  • #5 15895478
    arelektroda
    Level 23  
    PLN 200/month for heating is not much at all, assuming that there is adequate thermal comfort. You wrote that the apartment is underheated. In my opinion, to increase thermal and mainly financial comfort, you should have properly programmed controllers that control the operation of radiators. Do you have such drivers?
  • #6 15895506
    fiiszu
    Level 8  
    arelektroda wrote:
    PLN 200/month for heating is not much at all, assuming that there is adequate thermal comfort. You wrote that the apartment is underheated. In my opinion, to increase thermal and mainly financial comfort, you should have properly programmed controllers that control the operation of radiators. Do you have such drivers?


    These are ordinary electric oil radiators, something like this:

    Economical Electric Heating Methods for a 2004 Canadian-Method 34m2 Studio Apartment

    Connected to electricity and running at less than half power, they run all day, sometimes all night. I know that this solution is uneconomical and ineffective (despite heating, it is still not warm enough), so I asked myself to write this topic.

    PLN 200/month for such an area and for a student's budget is quite a lot for me, including rent and utilities. :(
  • #7 15895726
    arelektroda
    Level 23  
    The only way to save money is to use a controller that allows you to set the day and night temperatures, e.g. 21 and 17 degrees Celsius, respectively. You limit this daily temperature only to the time you stay at home, or rather only to the time of study or other activities requiring thermal comfort. The rest of the time, there is exercise or a blanket to save money. Such cold rearing has a positive effect on health and money.
  • #8 15896110
    kellygrzyb3
    Level 17  
    fiiszu wrote:
    Thank you very much for your answer.
    Could you please give me some recommendations for good heat pumps, for about PLN 2,000, matched to the size of the apartment? Because everything I find is terribly expensive.
    you won't buy anything good for 2,000. You should probably count about 3,000 depending on the type of installation and how many freon lines.
  • Helpful post
    #9 15896249
    jega
    Level 24  
    kellygrzyb3 wrote:
    day and night temperatures, respectively, e.g. 21 and 17 degrees Celsius
    The better the insulation of the apartment, the less effective such solutions are - because the temperature drops slowly.

    Increasing thermal comfort at lower temperatures can be achieved by using underfloor heating or infrared heaters. The former reverses the natural temperature pattern, forcing higher temperatures near the floor, which gives a feeling of comfort at a lower average temperature. This is especially useful in high-rise rooms (old tenement houses), where a regular radiator creates a cushion of warm air near the ceiling (a gift for the upstairs neighbor...) and the floor is cold. Unfortunately, changing the heating system to underfloor heating requires a major renovation (including replacing the floor). In turn, infrared radiators release a large part of the energy in the form of infrared radiation, which the radiator directs in a selected direction, e.g. at a person sitting on a sofa or at a desk. This allows you to quickly and precisely heat selected places in a generally cool room. I am not a supporter of this solution, but objectively it is effective. In one apartment, I used it with good results in the bathroom to maintain a relatively low temperature of about 19°C, but to warm up people getting out of the shower.

    A heat pump is a solution that objectively increases the amount of thermal energy supplied without increasing electricity consumption - this is how it differs from the previously discussed solutions. The COP coefficient, which determines the ratio of heat energy released into the room to electricity taken from the network, depends on the quality of the device but, above all, on the temperature difference - the larger it is, the worse it is. You can count on an average value of 3, which gives 2/3 of the savings and makes electric heating the cheapest.

    Added after 20 [minutes]:

    fiiszu wrote:
    Could you please give me some recommendations for good heat pumps, for about PLN 2,000, matched to the size of the apartment? Because everything I find is terribly expensive
    Right now, in autumn, you have the opportunity to find something on sale, normally it will actually be around PLN 2,500..3,000. Two years ago, in late autumn, I bought a pump reduced from PLN 2,700 to PLN 1,999, later on a well-known website there was an offer of an identical pump for PLN 1,799 (from the exhibition, but it is completely irrelevant in this case).
    fiiszu wrote:
    My second question is, is such a pump connected to the compressor with a cable or pipe?
    The connection includes an electric cable and two pipes with a heating medium, the total diameter (with the necessary insulation) is approx. 5 cm, and the pipes cannot be bent to a small radius, so the hole in the wall must be at least 6..8 cm in diameter and this is one of the biggest problems during assembly.
    fiiszu wrote:
    Can this compressor be placed on bare ground (I have a garden)
    Of course, yes, it is a very good solution also because its vibrations do not transfer to the building wall. You only need to prepare a small foundation, e.g. with curbs. The unit - depending on its power - weighs up to 50 kg. Free air flow must be ensured, requirements are always given, but typically min. 10 cm after the air inlet and 50 cm before the air outlet.

    Pay attention to the installation method: most devices sold require the selection of tubes for a specific installation and filling them with gas after installation. This means the need to use a professional service and, consequently, the installation cost of several hundred zlotys.

    However, there are also those that come with pipes of a specific length (e.g. 4 m) already filled with gas. If this length suits you, you can easily install such a pump yourself without incurring unnecessary costs. I write "unnecessary" because although experts - also on this website - emphasize the need for professional installation, from my experience (two pumps of this type) independent installation is simple, easy and does not entail negative consequences (one and two heating seasons so far). ).

    If you have any doubts as to whether the power will be sufficient, do not worry, in the worst case, in case of low temperatures, you can always warm up the room with another heater in an emergency.

    I look after several apartments in buildings heated with electricity, hence my experience.
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  • Helpful post
    #10 15896425
    piotr_boncza
    Level 29  
    I think you should be interested in electric furnaces with dynamic discharge. If you have or arrange for the appropriate tariff, your bills will drop significantly. Such a furnace is charged with heat during low electricity prices and releases heat only when needed. If you choose a solution with a weather controller, the furnace will consume as much electricity as it actually needs. The cost of such a 2kW new one is approximately PLN 2,000. Sometimes they were cheaper during the promotion, but autumn is coming and the prices will increase.
    It's best to have two radiators in the bathroom. One to maintain a constant lower temperature, e.g. a floor or ladder. And the second one to obtain higher temperatures for a short time. Blower or infrared heater. I suggest a radiant heater. Quieter, safer, smaller.
  • #11 15896643
    fiiszu
    Level 8  
    For example, a furnace like this -> Link is this a good solution?

    I must admit that my cooperative is allergic to any drilling in the facade, so drilling a hole with a diameter of 8 cm in the facade will be a problem...

    Thank you very much again for all your tips.

    Regards.
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  • #12 15896810
    Zbigniew Rusek
    Level 38  
    fiiszu wrote:
    arelektroda wrote:
    PLN 200/month for heating is not much at all, assuming that there is adequate thermal comfort. You wrote that the apartment is underheated. In my opinion, to increase thermal and mainly financial comfort, you should have properly programmed controllers that control the operation of radiators. Do you have such drivers?


    These are ordinary electric oil radiators, something like this:

    Economical Electric Heating Methods for a 2004 Canadian-Method 34m2 Studio Apartment

    Connected to electricity and running at less than half power, they run all day, sometimes all night. I know that this solution is uneconomical and ineffective (despite heating, it is still not warm enough), so I asked myself to write this topic.

    PLN 200/month for such an area and for a student's budget is quite a lot for me, including rent and utilities. :(

    These oil (panel) radiators are probably of low power. Ribbed ones are generally stronger, but they could do with more ribs. I know some from Bulgaria that had even 20 or 25 fins (2000W or 2500W) and heated well (and Bulgaria is in the south, so you don't need that much heat). It's just that while electric heating was almost never used in Poland, it was common in Bulgaria. One more thing. If you decide to choose a storage heater, its power must be twice as high as that of other electric heaters (to give the same amount of heat). I believe that a 2500W oil heater would heat this studio apartment well (or a 2000W convector) and the storage heater would probably have to have 4 kW, which means three-phase power supply (single-phase up to 3.5kW, i.e. in practice 3kW storage heaters).
  • Helpful post
    #13 15897042
    jega
    Level 24  
    fiiszu wrote:
    drilling a hole with a diameter of 8 cm in the facade will be a problem
    I don't think so. Firstly, there will be no hole, but there will be an aesthetic channel on the façade, secondly, if there is a real problem with it, you can place the channel inside on the wall or even insert the cable into a thick groove in the wall (from the inside) and plaster it smoothly and then outdoor passages at a height of less than a meter, well below the fence of your garden.
    Zbigniew Rusek wrote:
    If you decide to choose a storage heater, its power must be twice as high as that of other electric heaters (to give the same amount of heat)
    Why is that? I understand that you calculate it like this: I heat it for 10 hours a day and I heat it 24 hours a day, so... Meanwhile, the energy demand is much lower - according to the author's data, you have PLN 200/month, or about 300kWh/month, or 10kWh/day i.e. on average only 500W. No one is stopping you from adding a second, regular radiator for exceptionally cold days or rather nights.

    I am not a fan of accumulators, because yes, a low tariff is a good thing, but fixed fees are increasing, so profitability is high only with really high energy consumption, and the cost of furnaces is the same as heat pumps.
  • #14 15897098
    fiiszu
    Level 8  
    Could one of you gentlemen show me a heat pump suitable for this size, or under what terms I should look for it? I'm searching on Google, but all the pumps I find cost at least PLN 10,000.
  • #15 15897412
    kellygrzyb3
    Level 17  
    Then enter a 3.5kW air conditioner...
  • #16 15897458
    jega
    Level 24  
    fiiszu wrote:
    the pumps I find cost at least PLN 10,000
    These are probably higher power pumps, probably air-water. This is a good idea if several rooms are to be heated. The pump then provides hot water that is used to heat the rooms using an underfloor heating system (preferably) or special radiators. On the well-known portal, auction no. 6434448115, a used one was offered for PLN 2,000, but this is an auction and the type and power (5kW thermal power) do not match your needs.

    Search under the name air-air heat pump or air conditioner, because they are probably more popular under this name. However, you always need to check the operating temperature range, because for heating in winter -15°C is the absolute minimum, although most of the heating season has recently seen fluctuations around 0°C.

    The cheapest air conditioners with a heating function can operate from e.g. 7°C, which makes them unsuitable for use in winter. Attempting to operate such devices at sub-zero temperatures may quickly result in their damage unless they simply turn off on their own early. Exemplary Link this is the first device on the market, there are also many of them on well-known portals, e.g. auctions 6397758666 or 5562847007.
  • #17 15902237
    piotr_boncza
    Level 29  
    fiiszu wrote:
    For example, a furnace like this -> Link is this a good solution?

    Not bad, also look at Elektrotermia, e.g. DOA 20. Good price, Polish product.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around finding economical electric heating solutions for a 34 m2 studio apartment built in 2004 using the Canadian method. The user reports high electricity costs (PLN 200/month) despite using two electric heaters. Suggestions include installing a heat pump, specifically an air-air heat pump, which can operate efficiently in winter temperatures down to -15°C. Recommendations for bathroom heating include infrared heaters and blowers. The importance of programmable controllers for radiators to optimize heating costs is emphasized. Alternatives like underfloor heating and electric furnaces with dynamic discharge are also discussed, with considerations for installation limitations due to community regulations. Users express concerns about the cost of heat pumps, with suggestions to look for models around PLN 2,000, while also noting that higher power units may be necessary for effective heating.
Summary generated by the language model.
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