Heating 40sqm Space: Electric Boiler & Pump for Water Circulation in 3 Panel Radiators

Hello

I am new here and everywhere anyway when it comes to heating systems. I hope I have placed the topic in the right place.
There is no access to gas in the area where I live. I have to heat with electricity. The house is small, or rather the meters that I need to heat about 40 square meters.
I was thinking about the idea that the water would be heated in a separate boiler with the help of a pump, so that the water would circulate faster in this circuit with 3 panel radiators.
Is it feasible?
If so, where to start?

Regards

Marek

Doesn't get exactly what's going on? ..?
You probably mean that you want to heat your house with a DHW (domestic hot water) tank with an electric heater? or maybe the heat comes from another source? and in addition you want to have hot water from this tray, am I right?

The idea is not too good - I do not know what you want to get.

For you, it's best to the 2nd tariff + storage stove. Operation cheaper than your idea with a boiler.

welcome back

Sorry for the brief description.
I was thinking about installing an additional small boiler with a heater with a pump and supplying water to 3 radiators located in the house.
It would not be utility water. This is how I would like to heat the radiators.
I have a question, will it work efficiently?

Mr. Wnoto wrote about tariff II and about the storage furnace. I have tariff I. Is the meter change necessary?

Regards and thank you for the answers.

The proposal of a colleague Wnoto as correct as possible. You need to sign a new contract with your energy supplier.

Your idea is simply central heating with an electric boiler. And possibly a buffer tank. Will it work efficiently? I think so. But you have to design and execute it well. Calculate the heat demand, select a boiler, circulation pump, expansion vessel, heaters. You most likely won't do it yourself, so it will cost you a bit.
The operation itself will not be cheap either - heating with electricity is probably the most expensive method of heating.
So, the advice of colleagues on storage heating is perhaps the best.
A certain problem, however, is whether your electrical installation can handle it, whether it is an electric boiler or storage stoves.

I think I'm following, I thought that I would put a 2500W heater into a boiler with a small tank and give it to 3 plate heaters, two would be purmo C33 600x1800 and 600x1400 and one C11 600x1800, but I understand that it could not be heated with such a small power.

How to check the durability of the storage heating installation.

Regards

kj1 wrote:

The operation itself will not be cheap either - heating with electricity is probably the most expensive method of heating.
So, the advice of colleagues on storage heating is perhaps the best.

Don't you think these two sentences are at odds with each other? in both cases we heat with electricity.


@ Sixer86

There are no gentlemen here there are colleagues from the Forum :)


Write, do you already have these radiators? Are you just going to install them?
What is your current allocation of electrical power? You'll find it on the energy invoice ... possibly in the fuses on the switchboard next to the meter.

Changing the tariff is the replacement of the meter ... at the expense of the energy sector :)

Added after 1 [minutes]:

And lest it was ... Your idea is cool and interesting ... but not for these conditions.

wnoto wrote:

Don't you think these two sentences are at odds with each other? in both cases we heat with electricity.

Maybe it looks like it at first glance, but it is not.
I think that a small boiler will not provide the possibility of accumulating heat at night, giving it back during the day, like storage heaters. So it would also have to work during the day.
The use of storage heaters allows them to be heated at night and used during the day. You pay completely different money for the same energy.

Whether 2.5kW is enough is difficult to say. It depends on where you live (how long the temperature outside the window is low), what is the insulation of the walls, how tight the windows are, how you use the apartment (do you have a small child or 18 is enough in the apartment) etc.

Wnoto is absolutely right - the storage stove and the second tariff.
As for the meter, it is a problem of the energy supplier - an application must be submitted.

Get yourself a horseshoe really ....

Hello

I have a slightly different problem, but it fits the topic.
The hot utility water boiler is powered by convection from a coil located in the kitchen tiled stove. I have a lot of excess heat (it happens to boil), so I would like to add copper pipes to a radiator and heat the room with it. I want to be able to cut the radiator circuit by hand. I do not want to load electronics into it, or some solenoid valve connected to the pump, if needed.
How would you see such an installation? How to connect to the coil circuit, in series, in parallel? Where to put the pump? How to ensure that the coil does not close the circuit in the event of a power cut? What else to pay attention to?

obtaining central heating from an electric boiler is not only profitable, but also cheap to make. I have such a solution in my apartment and I am satisfied. with the use of 4 radiators with a capacity of 3 to 1000 watts and one bathroom radiator with a capacity of 400 watts, the bathtub is not large. the rooms have insulated ceilings as well. total amount of water in the heating circuit. is 25 liters. heater in a 5-liter 1.5 kW boiler, thermostatic heads cannot be used due to the low pressure. during operation, the initial pressure is only 0.6 bar. expansion vessel in the range of 0.5-6 bar. instead of thermostatic heads, I put on the usual 1/2 inch valves. which are used to regulate the amount of water. I am also happy because I invented it myself, advice on such a solution is negated by specialists who recommend solutions already known. duplication of such sources does not serve. And you, Mr. Brands, I wish you a successful assembly. we can contact you if you have any questions. economically, this is in favor. for 10 hours of use in the daily tariff it is only PLN 7. good luck

Raptors42 I do not really understand how to effectively power receivers with a maximum power consumption of 3 * 1000 + 400 = 3400 Watts with a 1500 Watts heater?
Economics?
The cost of the boiler heaters (which can be easily attached to a cast iron radiator) is about PLN 20 per piece, i.e. PLN 80 (1000 W). For this control of some thermostats (pennies).
Costs for the circulation pump and pipes are eliminated.

raptors42 I wanted to advise you about CO from the boiler

Hello, I have a similar dilemma.
The point is, sometimes I don't have me home about 2 days a week.
I'm afraid that the water will freeze, how to prevent freezing?
I have two ideas:
1. engage the pump in the 3rd gear, the water in motion will not freeze so quickly.
2. Turn on the boiler which is jacketed with central heating water, and it can also be heated with a heater.

Will the water heated in the boiler keep the water above 0 degrees C with the heater?
I think that the water from the boiler, heated with the heater, will heat the water up to 3 degrees Celsius

What do you think about it.

Hello

You do not need to be an expert in the subject of heating to know that the house will not cool down to the level of water freezing in CO for two days without heating.

If you are so concerned that it will freeze, add some glycol to the installation :-)


greetings

Thank you for your answer, I think so too.
Maybe you know how to fill the installation with glycol yourself.

My friend "raptors42", I think that a larger boiler, for example 50l, will increase the heating efficiency, and thus reduce the energy costs (it will not cool down so quickly and the heater will be turned on less often than in the case of a 5-liter boiler). I am thinking of using such heating in my apartment, a similar meter, about 40m, and a similar number of radiators, 3 larger and 1 small for the bathroom.
I was looking for something about it and found this thread, I can see that my idea works.
How could you, I would ask for a simple sketch of your working idea, do I need to additionally install any containers or a safety valve? Thank you in advance

I also think about such heating, but only in the spring, and it will be implemented for sure, there are only a few questions about the installation of the boiler and do you need to install an expansion tank or something like that, and what is the cross-section of the copper pipes?
best regards and encourage you to discuss

Added after 30 [minutes]:

I am going to install a 20 liter boiler because I have one

You have unearthed the "little" old topic. And by the way, heaters, pipes, pumps, etc., not cheaper and easier to use, for example, oilseeds?

It would be easier but not as economical as the boiler has a 1500 W heater and heats the whole apartment with it, and 2000W oil heater heats one room.
And installations are made for years and it's OK
All I need is help getting it all connected

I have this solution, even though I have a stove in the kitchen for central heating (I can also cook on it), if I do not burn in the stove and turn on the boiler, of course I have quite warm radiators, it depends on how I set the boiler. I was able to consume 30 kW of electricity per day, of course, total with other appliances in the house, but I noticed that although hot radiators were not at home at such a temperature as I would have burned in the stove, this "heat" is somehow different ... if I had it giving the whole month is about 900 kW of consumption is 450 PLN, unless the boiler is replaced with a modern one, because I currently have an 8-year-old Classic Espiro Biawar. 120 l. Maybe there are more efficient boilers that keep heat longer, e.g. to use the night tariff because now I have a fixed rate every 1 kw, it costs me 0.49 groszy already with all costs. Or some more economical ...

Hello, I am thinking about a similar solution. For two years I have been heating my flat en. el. in various ways (previously there was joint heating with fuel oil), I tried the already recommended convectors and other inventions, currently I am at the radiant stage (wall quartz radiators from a market with a power of 1.2 kW - 4 pcs) and I will say that the latter the stage is cheaper than the others, but not satisfactory.

In general, the problem for me is that I do not know what size of the boiler to use for such an installation? Because small, as one of my colleagues wrote, it will probably be inefficient, I was thinking about the size of the boiler, which will accumulate at least 2 times the capacity of the installation (water heated to a maximum of 60 degrees C).

It should be quite efficient, even at lower temperatures, because there will always be a supply of hot water for a change, and at the same time the returning water will heat up quickly (returning 45 degrees C) to the assumed temperature.

Another problem is the temperature in the rooms, I would not want it to circulate like this and the radiators to be constantly filled with hot water, because it is known that the temperature in the rooms will be constantly increasing (the question is only to what level ), so I do not know whether to use any mixers and manifolds, similar to those used for underfloor heating, or just to regulate it all with the temperature of the water from the boiler?

I will just mention that heating the apartment in the winter now costs me about PLN 500 minimum, and I want to connect 3 KERMI heaters 50x50, 90x50 and 100x50 to this installation.

The idea with a boiler makes sense when you accumulate energy in it in a cheap tariff and return this heat in an expensive tariff. The difference in the price of electricity is, for example, PLN 0.26 (cheap) and PLN 0.22 (expensive).
The question is, what is your current tariff and how much electricity you need for heating.

Currently, I have quartz heaters (they are the cheapest to maintain from the tests), which run from 6 to 10 hours / day. Depending on the weather, the electricity consumption depends on:
3x1.2kWx6h = 21.6kWh up to: 3x1.2kWx10h = 36kWh of course, around the clock, there is also a radiator in the bathroom used during bathing , and energy in the G11 tariff is about 0.55 PLN gross

Assuming that the boiler will have a capacity of 50-60l, it will take about 1-1.5 hours to prepare water at a temperature of 65 degrees Celsius - this is for start, then the boiler will only heat the water that will return to it, so it should not have a heavy load, and the water accumulated in it is enough for almost 4 full changes in the circuit.

The returning water, in theory, should be 55 degrees, in practice it will probably be about 50, heating these 15-17 liters to a temperature of 65 degrees should not take longer than 10 minutes, i.e. with a 2kW heater, five steps will consume about 1.65 kWh of energy and it will be lasted max 50 minutes.

Summarizing your answer wnoto it can be assumed that the larger the tank (boiler), the smaller the losses and the greater the efficiency of such a system, ignoring the change in the energy tariff

you will not save money without changing the tariff. Radiators will convert 100% of the energy into heat in a given room.
The boiler will give off heat (partially) in a room that does not require re-fitting, and this will result in loss and earlier investment expenses. For me - it makes no sense.

The heat from the radiators will be more continuous than from radiators that work directionally. By switching to the so-called boiler You will not save kWh (with the same comfort) and you will actually lose it.

Only switching to a boiler - much more capacious and storing energy for PLN 0.26 will save you. Read about storage heaters. Different types of appliances (but similar to your boiler)

Added after 2 [minutes]:

for example, if the heaters need 36kWh to be warm, then these 36 kWh must be fed from the boiler to the radiators / a.
I am afraid that you will get cold indoors with this solution. See in the catalog what power the heater has at 65C.

I partially agree, but you cannot compare a radiant heater that heats objects to a radiator that warms the air. When I was heating with fan convectors, I was hot, but a moment after turning it off it was getting colder, much faster than when heating with radiators, besides, the power itself (the convector was at least 2 kW, the radiator is 1.2 kW) gives savings, apart from the fact that it turns on less often and is controlled by a thermostatic wall controller with a setting of 23 degrees + - 0.5 degrees

I was also thinking about storage heaters, but the cost of their purchase is unprofitable for me (I am renting a flat). And I won't have anything to do with them later ;)

Generally, a 100x50 radiator gives almost 1400 W of heat at 65 st more like a radiant heater, I have the smallest one in the kitchen, so I can do it

ssabu wrote:

Generally, a 100x50 radiator gives almost 1400 W of heat at 65 st

And where does this "1400 W heat" come from?
Dude, what do you need a boiler for. Place the radiator itself. And if one is not enough, then two or three. And you won't have to pull the pipes.
And seriously, a friend in the previous post wrote you what the problem is. To maintain the temperature in the apartment, you need to provide enough heat (measured in kWh or J, not in watts) to cover the losses of this heat (mainly for transmission and ventilation). If you choose electricity as the source of this heat, you have to choose devices that will convert it into heat and of course you have to pay for this energy.
You can buy it in the 24-hour tariff and use it when you want, or in the "night" tariff, but then you have to somehow "store" it so that you can use it when you need it most. You can do this with an accumulation furnace, or with, for example, a boiler (or a suitable buffer tank). However, an 80-liter domestic hot water boiler is certainly not able to accumulate the energy needed for 24-hour heating.

kj1 it was about the thermal efficiency of the radiator, maybe I was wrong :P

I know that the 80l boiler is not able to return energy daily, even the storage boiler is not able to give back energy, as you write accumulated in the night tariff around the clock, it must heat up.

The point is, now I need these 36 kWh to keep the temperature at 23 degrees at home a day. The boiler will heat a small amount of water, or rather heat it, so it will theoretically use less energy than radiators, which, after the temperature in the room drops, reheat it for 15 minutes.

Hence my question and suggestion that the larger the tank, the constant heat in the house will be, but you cannot overdo it, I think that a maximum of 4-5 water changes in the circuit will be reasonable